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OfflineOOOO
Stranger
Registered: 04/21/03
Posts: 125
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
The Election
    #1500528 - 04/28/03 01:37 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Did Bush steal the last election, as so many claim? What really went down?


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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
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Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: The Election [Re: OOOO]
    #1500534 - 04/28/03 01:39 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I exaggerate when I say he "stole" the election. Basically, the Supreme Court just made a really bad decision, which essentially gave him the presidency.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineSlapnutRob
Toolhead

Registered: 03/31/03
Posts: 520
Loc: Michigan
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
Re: The Election [Re: silversoul7]
    #1500540 - 04/28/03 01:43 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

It was basically decided a long time ago that Bush would win Florida. His brother is the governor for Christ's sake! I won't get into too many details, but the people running the election were told to not allow many blacks to vote because their names or birthdates were similar to felons. They were told at the voting booth that they were felons and couldn't vote. Also, in elderly Jewish communities they made some booths non-handicap-accaessble, and used a butterfly ballet that was clearly illegal because Pat Buchanan was listed above Al Gore, and a ridiculous amount of votes went for Buchanan in a JEWISH community that even he admitted couldn't be his votes. Also, extra leeway was given so that absentee ballots (which are about 80% Republican) were counted even if they were late or filled out wrong. If you are interested in getting a good story of what happened there, based on FACT, read "The Best Democracy Money Can Buy" by Greg Palast or "Stupid White Men" by Michael Moore.


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Anything stated above is fictional roleplay dialog by the character that is Slapnut Rob, in no way representing the actions or beliefs of the man behind the keys.


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: The Election [Re: OOOO]
    #1500553 - 04/28/03 01:51 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I did not vote for Bush, but after watching Gore?s minions trying to divine votes from unpunched ballots and their trashing of the military vote I was firmly convinced that the Democratic operatives were the ones attempting to steal the election. Bush?s team merely wanted the rules in place at the time of the election to be followed. That is what the Supreme Court decided, they did not ?install? Bush as president.





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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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OfflineSlapnutRob
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Registered: 03/31/03
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Loc: Michigan
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Re: The Election [Re: Evolving]
    #1500556 - 04/28/03 01:54 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Give me a break. I don't like Gore but all Gore wanted was for EVERY vote to be counted, which they weren't. The Conservative Supreme Court stopped the count, effectively placing their boy George in office. Read the chapters on the subject in the books I mentioned and you'll see why you're wrong.

P.S. Punch ballots should be banned after this ridiculous fiasco.


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Anything stated above is fictional roleplay dialog by the character that is Slapnut Rob, in no way representing the actions or beliefs of the man behind the keys.


Edited by SlapnutRob (04/28/03 01:55 PM)


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OfflineOOOO
Stranger
Registered: 04/21/03
Posts: 125
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
Re: The Election [Re: SlapnutRob]
    #1500565 - 04/28/03 01:57 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I don't read Michaeal Moore if I'm concerned at all about the truth, as I am in this matter.


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: The Election [Re: SlapnutRob]
    #1500569 - 04/28/03 01:59 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

... but all Gore wanted was for EVERY vote to be counted, which they weren't.



Oh, so that's why the Democrats threw out military ballots.

Quote:

The Conservative Supreme Court stopped the vote, effectively placing their boy George in office.



What were the laws in place at the time of the election? How is the Supreme court's insisting that the laws be followed 'placing' George W. Bush in office?

Quote:

Read the chapters on the subject in the books I mentioned and you'll see why you're wrong.



Michael Moore? Sorry, I don't read fiction.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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OfflineSlapnutRob
Toolhead

Registered: 03/31/03
Posts: 520
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Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
Re: The Election [Re: Evolving]
    #1500588 - 04/28/03 02:05 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Many of those military ballots were illegal. Fine if you don't like Moore... then read a much more highly respected and feared journalist--Greg Palast. Trust me... he knows much more about this than you or I.

I don't understand how you people can support Bush. Just the fact that you're at this site shows you're at odds with the fundamentalist Xians in his administration who would want sites like this shut down. I'm also pretty sure a fair number of people on this board are smarter than our President. This President is the choice of the corporations, not the people, and if you think it's otherwise you're just loving Big Brother.


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Anything stated above is fictional roleplay dialog by the character that is Slapnut Rob, in no way representing the actions or beliefs of the man behind the keys.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: The Election [Re: OOOO]
    #1500590 - 04/28/03 02:08 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

There was no stealing of any election. Many in America have a problem with the constitution when it works against them. Do a search on the Electoral College and you'll see just how a president is chosen (it's too long of an explanation). What basically happened is that the Gore team was pronounced the winner before the Florida ballots were counted then it turned out that Bush won and Gore started crying and demanded a recount. There is a law which states when a recount should be concluded and everytime the counts came out in Bush's favor Gore would protest and demand another count. He brought this to the court system and lost. Not only did they make an exception on the time limit but every single recount came out in Bush's favor since....Basically to sum it up Gore was just being a sore LOSER.


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineSlapnutRob
Toolhead

Registered: 03/31/03
Posts: 520
Loc: Michigan
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
Re: The Election [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1500594 - 04/28/03 02:11 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

The reason Gore was pronounced the winner is that the political scientists at the network who decided he won first (whichever one it was) saw how votes were going and declared him the winner. They can use voting patterns that get in to declare who will win way before it happens. Isn't it a little fishy that Florida that year was the ONLY time they fucked up? The votes weren't coming in the way they were supposed to. Jeb and Katherine Harris had the system rigged in favor of Bush--that's why he had more votes.


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Anything stated above is fictional roleplay dialog by the character that is Slapnut Rob, in no way representing the actions or beliefs of the man behind the keys.


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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: The Election [Re: SlapnutRob]
    #1500596 - 04/28/03 02:13 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

The Conservative Supreme Court stopped the count, effectively placing their boy George in office.



All of the unofficial recounts after it was all over (even those done by liberals) showed that Bush won.


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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: The Election [Re: SlapnutRob]
    #1500601 - 04/28/03 02:16 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Just the fact that you're at this site shows you're at odds with the fundamentalist Xians in his administration who would want sites like this shut down.



Why do you feel the need to generalize everyone on this board? I consider myself to be a Christian and I'm here. There is a big difference between what someones beliefs of right or wrong state and what they think the government should do.


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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineSlapnutRob
Toolhead

Registered: 03/31/03
Posts: 520
Loc: Michigan
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
Re: The Election [Re: z@z.com]
    #1500614 - 04/28/03 02:24 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

You know what I meant man... quit trying to act like I'm generalizing. I was referring to the far right like John Ashcroft who basically thinks the Bible should be our Constitution, and their desire to change the Constitution to their likign.


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Anything stated above is fictional roleplay dialog by the character that is Slapnut Rob, in no way representing the actions or beliefs of the man behind the keys.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: The Election [Re: SlapnutRob]
    #1500618 - 04/28/03 02:27 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

It was basically decided a long time ago that Bush would win Florida. His brother is the governor for Christ's sake! I won't get into too many details, but the people running the election were told to not allow many blacks to vote because their names or birthdates were similar to felons.




you have no idea what you're talking about, do you?

Quote:

. Also, in elderly Jewish communities they made some booths non-handicap-accaessble, and used a butterfly ballet that was clearly illegal because Pat Buchanan was listed above Al Gore,




see previous response

Quote:

Also, extra leeway was given so that absentee ballots (which are about 80% Republican) were counted even if they were late or filled out wrong. If you are interested in getting a good story of what happened there, based on FACT, read "The Best Democracy Money Can Buy" by Greg Palast or "Stupid White Men" by Michael Moore.




see two previous responses.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: The Election [Re: SlapnutRob]
    #1500629 - 04/28/03 02:30 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Ok. Sorry if I didn't get your intention. I haven't slept much lately (damn finals). The government has no business legislating morality. All they should do is keep others from infringing on our rights. That is the purpose of governement.


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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: The Election [Re: SlapnutRob]
    #1500630 - 04/28/03 02:30 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

The reason Gore was pronounced the winner is that the political scientists at the network who decided he won first (whichever one it was) saw how votes were going and declared him the winner




yeah before the voters had a chance to vote in the western part of Florida. You don't really know what happened, do you?

i would like to reply to you further, but you seem very ignorant.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineSlapnutRob
Toolhead

Registered: 03/31/03
Posts: 520
Loc: Michigan
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
Re: The Election [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1500664 - 04/28/03 02:45 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Invertigo, you seem to be one of those people who just calls his opponents idiots rather than seriously debating them. All you're doing is making yourself look like a jackass, and in my eyes you're showing me you can't deal with my arguments. Why do you think they declared Gore the winner? Did they pick his name out of a hat? They're able to predict who's going to win what state when only a minority of the votes coming in have been counted. They were doing it all day that day, and were only wrong with Florida.

Zoz, I meant no offense to you and I agree 100% with your last post (especially the part about finals)


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Anything stated above is fictional roleplay dialog by the character that is Slapnut Rob, in no way representing the actions or beliefs of the man behind the keys.


Edited by SlapnutRob (04/28/03 02:47 PM)


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: The Election [Re: SlapnutRob]
    #1500680 - 04/28/03 02:55 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Invertigo, you seem to be one of those people who just calls his opponents idiots rather than seriously debating them




i didn't call you an idiot. I said you were Ignorant which means you don't know. I can't seriously debate someone as lost as your logic represents you.

Quote:

All you're doing is making yourself look like a jackass




ha, if you want to see a jackass re-read your last few posts. You're hopeless.

Quote:

and in my eyes you're showing me you can't deal with my arguments.




I can't deal with them because they're Bullshit. Your assumptions are hillarious at best. I'm sorry but i just can't take you serious. Who told you that people were told not to vote?

Quote:

Why do you think they declared Gore the winner?




because the media is full of idiot liberals. Case in point: when the races were 51% 10 49% in favor of the democrate with 10% counted it was called for the Dem. When it was reversed it was too close to call. This is not only unique to the last election but the previous 3 elections....but i guess you knew that.

Quote:

They're able to predict who's going to win what state when only a minority of the votes coming in have only been counted




apparantly not...
they don't have the ability because they are often wrong and need to change their predictions. They were the same people who wanted the census to be that of 90% of the population and estimating the remaining 10%. Tell me something what is 90% of an unknown number?

Quote:

They were doing it all day that day, and were only wrong with Florida.




Florida was the only state that they DECLARED a winner wrong. The whole night was that of my above example.

EDIT: If you truly want to debate then get your facts straight.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


Edited by Innvertigo (04/28/03 03:11 PM)


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/19/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
Re: The Election [Re: SlapnutRob]
    #1500741 - 04/28/03 03:22 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Slapnut Rob writes:

...and used a butterfly ballet that was clearly illegal because Pat Buchanan was listed above Al Gore...

I guess you missed the part where it was explained repeatedly in all the media that the design of the ballot was done by the Democratic party of Florida, huh? It was quite the embarassment to the Dems.

pinky


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OfflineMadtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
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Re: The Election [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1500742 - 04/28/03 03:23 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

While I think my left-leanings are pretty obvious in regard to the Prez, I cant say that Bush STOLE the election. I think both sides fought relatively dirty in getting votes disallowed...I mean, some of those ballots, It was obvious who the person voted for...

Not saying the turn out would have been different, and I dont think that any of the controversey would have happened had the major networks not represented their predictions as gospel truth. I would like a ban on all election predictions for this very reason. That fact is, after everyone filed lawsuits, the Supreme Court said Gore was wrong. Thats good enough for me, and I can live with it...for 4 years anyway...


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After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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