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Re: Male And Female Circumcision [Re: zappaisgod]
    #16581876 -

There are many people who are not happy they were circumcised what about them?

removing sensitive parts of the male anatomy is not a health benefit, it is a sexual health loss.

circumcised men have a higher rate of sexual disfunction.

men who are circumcised as adults report a dramatic reduction in sensitivity.

the claim it prevents STI's is inconvlusive and contraversial, and had been preceeded by all kinds of other exuses in the past after the fact.

I think you have a textbook case of sour grapes.


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http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

Edited by Shins (07/24/12 07:15 PM)

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Re: Male And Female Circumcision [Re: Shins]
    #16581982 -

Quote:
men who are circumcised as adults report a dramatic reduction in sensitivity.



You must not understand how much people's bodies change from babies to adults.  And how little they change thereafter.

Quote:
circumcised men have a higher rate of sexual disfunction.


Maybe you could do meta-analysis on the studies wikipedia has and get back to us with some fucking proof.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_effects_of_circumcision#Summary_of_research_findings

And it is "dysfunction."  If you're going to cite a medical condition, spell it properly.

Quote:
removing sensitive parts of the male anatomy is not a health benefit, it is a sexual health loss.


That is your opinion.

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Re: Male And Female Circumcision [Re: 4-AcO-MET]
    #16582167 -

How can you argue that removing tens of thousands of natural sexual nerves and tissue does not reduce sexual sensation and function?

what exactly do you base that opinion on?

furthermore, what do you base your opinion that you have the right to perform it on an infant instead of letting them decide for themself?

you guys are absolutely outragous.

it disturbs me that you think cutting a large portion of pleasure sensitive nerves from an unconsenting infant is in any way justifiable.

I do not see what basis this opinion is coming from other than cultural tradition and sour grapes.

It disturbs me to be talking to sick people who are likely going to sexually mutilate their own helpless children next.


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http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

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Re: Male And Female Circumcision [Re: Shins]
    #16584401 -

:congrats:

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Re: Male And Female Circumcision [Re: Shins]
    #16585548 -

The problem with this conversation is your use of morality as some sort of magic shield that deflects arguments and magically makes you right.

In real life, there is no absolute morality.  No universal right and wrong.  Your morals were installed by the culture around you, your parents, and your own experiences.  Theres nothing "correct" about your beliefs.  They're just opinions.

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Re: Male And Female Circumcision [Re: HarveyWalbanger]
    #16586012 -

I notice that only people who are circumcised defend circumcision. I personally believe the practice is completely unnecessary. The foreskin serves a purpose and is best left as it is.

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Re: Male And Female Circumcision [Re: Aedan]
    #16586045 -

I am not circumcised, but if people want to circumcise their children i think they should be able too. It has small medical benefits, and i have never met someone who was bitter about their own circumcision.

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Re: Male And Female Circumcision [Re: Memories]
    #16586215 -

I have met people who wish they weren't circumcised. They usually don't think about until they have had a serious debate. You wouldn't circumcise your children would you? I think it only gets passed down through tradition. If a father is circumcised chances are they will do the same to their children. I believe parents have the right to decide but the logic of it I cannot understand.

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Re: Male And Female Circumcision [Re: Aedan]
    #16586267 -

I don't think i would want to have children, but if i had boys if my own, i probably wouldn't.

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Re: Male And Female Circumcision [Re: Memories]
    #16586726 -

Quote:
How can you argue that removing tens of thousands of natural sexual nerves and tissue does not reduce sexual sensation and function?


Very easily.

Quote:
what exactly do you base that opinion on?


I haven't given any opinion.

Quote:
furthermore, what do you base your opinion that you have the right to perform it on an infant instead of letting them decide for themself?


I'm looking for the post you're apparently reading where I'm giving my "opinion."  Can't seem to find it.  Can you point me to it?

Quote:
it disturbs me that you think cutting a large portion of pleasure sensitive nerves from an unconsenting infant is in any way justifiable.


What about an "unconsenting" (seriously, get a fucking dictionary -- if "unconsenting" were even a word, it would mean you are REVOKING CONSENT) 6 year old who doesn't want to go to school?

Quote:
I do not see what basis this opinion is coming from other than cultural tradition and sour grapes.


You're the only fucking person here giving an opinion.




Quote:
The foreskin serves a purpose and is best left as it is.


If it served a purpose, it wouldn't be cut off.  Do you see people cutting off their fingers?  Of course not, because fingers actually serve a purpose.

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Re: Male And Female Circumcision [Re: 4-AcO-MET]
    #16587362 -

I would love to see him post some medical information that supports his assertion that there are tens of thousands of nerves in a foreskin.  I knop a little about anatomy and that seems a bit hyperbolic.


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Re: Male And Female Circumcision [Re: zappaisgod]
    #16587631 -

Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if that many nerve endings were severed during circumcision.  This is up my alley and, to be truthful, tens of thousands might not even be a big enough number. 

However, like I said, when done as a infant, there is 19-23 years of growth to renew those nerve endings, which minimizes the damage done.  After you're all done growing, and an adult, it is far less likely for recovery to be made to those nerves.  The truth is, there is no scientific way to compare those circumcised as adults to those circumcised at birth.  Double-blind studies are the standard for any sort of experiment on human subjects, and if you can come up with a double blind study for circumcision then I'll cut my balls off on video.

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Re: Male And Female Circumcision [Re: 4-AcO-MET]
    #16587837 -

4-AcO-MET said:
Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if that many nerve endings were severed during circumcision.  This is up my alley and, to be truthful, tens of thousands might not even be a big enough number.



However, like I said, when done as a infant, there is 19-23 years of growth to renew those nerve endings, which minimizes the damage done.  After you're all done growing, and an adult, it is far less likely for recovery to be made to those nerves.  The truth is, there is no scientific way to compare those circumcised as adults to those circumcised at birth.  Double-blind studies are the standard for any sort of experiment on human subjects, and if you can come up with a double blind study for circumcision then I'll cut my balls off on video.


I questioned his assertion that there are tens of thousands of nerves in the foreskin. 

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_nerve_endings_are_in_a_finger

Quote:
The density of feeling receptors on our finger tips is 2,500 per cm^2! That is the densest area of receptors in the whole body.



That is a higher concentration than in the glans.  The foreskin itself has a much lower density than that.  So I'm just not getting anywhere near a tens of thousands of receptors, much less nerves (which are not the same thing).


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Re: Male And Female Circumcision [Re: zappaisgod]
    #16587905 -

You're arguing with me when I agree with you.  Per cm^2 means the average foreskin would have well over 10,000 nerve endings.  Even at a low end of 1000 nerve endings/cm^2, a foreskin would surpass this number.

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Re: Male And Female Circumcision [Re: 4-AcO-MET]
    #16587938 -

4-AcO-MET said:
You're arguing with me when I agree with you.  Per cm^2 means the average foreskin would have well over 10,000 nerve endings.  Even at a low end of 1000 nerve endings/cm^2, a foreskin would surpass this number.


That was for a fingertip, not a foreskin.


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Re: Male And Female Circumcision [Re: Aedan]
    #16587988 -

4-AcO-MET said:
You're arguing with me when I agree with you.  Per cm^2 means the average foreskin would have well over 10,000 nerve endings.  Even at a low end of 1000 nerve endings/cm^2, a foreskin would surpass this number.


my doctor must have cut around those nerves when I was circumsized. when i cum i think my prostate is going to blow out my asshole. ive been left writhing in pain from cumming so hard, multiple times in the past.

furthermore maybe its a good thing i lost some sensitivity there otherwise id only last 30 seconds or so

Phoenician said:
If a father is circumcised chances are they will do the same to their children. I believe parents have the right to decide but the logic of it I cannot understand.


the logic makes sense to me. if most circumcised parents tend to circumcise their children, they were likely satisfied with how their situation ended up. No parent would think, 'wow I fucking HATE that I was circumcised, Ill do it to my kid too.'

Ive had a very fulfilling sexual lifestyle with women thus far, and enjoy every part of my sexual function, and want the same for my kid, hence why I am going to opt for circumcision should I have a boy. I want women to admire his penis as if it should be immortalized in a bronze sculpture.


--------------------
notapillow said: "you are going about this endeavor all wrong. clear your mind of useless fear and concern. buy the ticket, take the ride, and all that.... "

ChrisWho said: "It's all about the journey, not the destination."

Edited by Mickalopagus (07/25/12 06:29 PM)

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Re: Male And Female Circumcision [Re: Mickalopagus]
    #16588516 -

Quote:
That was for a fingertip, not a foreskin.



Yeah, that is why I lowered the 2500nerves/cm^2 to 1000nerves/cm^2 for my assertion.

Or is that not enough?

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Re: Male And Female Circumcision [Re: 4-AcO-MET]
    #16590560 -

Thousands of Greater Manchester girls at risk from illegal circumcision by family
Quote:
THE VICTIM:

FATOU is 22 and lives in Rochdale with her three-year-old son. Born in the Ivory Coast, she fled after being forced to undergo circumcision and came to Britain.

She said: "It happened when I was 18. My mum had been very protective of me and made sure I didn’t get circumcised because she was against it, but couldn’t say so openly.

"I was hoping to come to Britain to study at university and she had helped me get a travel visa.

"But then my dad found out and decided that I could not go abroad unmarried. He arranged for me to become the third wife of a man in his 40s.

"This man’s family found out I had never been circumcised and it caused a scandal.

"Before the wedding, my arms and legs were tied down and I was beaten for resisting.

"An old woman from my husband’s family used a sharp knife to cut me.

"It was very, very painful and there was a lot of bleeding. I didn’t receive any medical attention. After that my husband didn’t care about the pain I was in and kept abusing me.

"I was so unhappy I tried to commit suicide.

"I had given my sister my passport to hide and she arranged for me to escape to Britain while I still had my visa.

"I started English classes and there I met someone and we started a relationship.

"He didn’t like that I was circumcised and I think that is one of the reasons we split up while I was pregnant.

"When my son was born I was so relieved he was not a girl who might have to go through what I had.

"Four years on, I am still in pain sometimes and have scars I don’t even like a doctor to see.

"I can never go back to the Ivory Coast and have applied for asylum here.

"I am on my own with my son but think I will never want to be in a relationship again."

(Fatou’s name has been changed to protect her identity)

THE CAMPAIGNER:

PEGGY Mulongo works for charity New Steps for the African Community.

She trains doctors, nurses and medical students at hospitals and universities across Greater Manchester to help women who have undergone female circumcision.

She is also setting up new support groups in Rochdale, Salford and North Manchester and runs youth groups to educate teenagers on the health risks.

She said: "It is important not to condemn families but to educate them about the health risks , that it’s a form of abuse and illegal.

"We have heard of people taking their daughters to Bolton to have it done but I think most travel abroad.

"It is very secretive. Women will never tell you who carried it out and children want to protect their parents. But when women start sharing their stories there are a lot of tears.

"I am convinced that educating teenagers is key to ending the practice in this country. They can persuade their parents and stand up against it happening to their younger siblings.

"There are signs of progress, but we still have a lot to do."


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Re: Male And Female Circumcision [Re: zzripz]
    #16636534 -

Circumcision is such a dramatic example of a non-critical thinking, thoughtless tradition.  It really demonstrates how smart, or not, some people are.

You have one guy in this thread talking about "liking both his heads bald" and circumcising his child because he likes his penis circumcised.

You have people mutilating the bodies of their newborn babies in order to fit in to social conventions.  It's often people will tell the story about not wanting their child to "be made fun of in the lockerroom".  Are you kidding me?  It really demonstrates how thoroughly some people can be inculcated into some really dangerous, misguided and just outrageously violent behavior.  Who would *ever* think you could trick an adult homo sapiens (MAN OF WISDOM) into mutilating the genitals of their children at birth?


Cutting off parts of the genitals of a newborn baby?  In what world does that ever translate as "okay"?  I like the example of branding.  Many African American fraternities brand their members to show membership.  If you asked the doctor to brand your newborn baby to make it a member of your clan with a hot branding iron just like you were branded they would call the police IMMEDIATELY.


It's absolutely ridiculous, I mean *beyond* crazy.  It's a great example of how *not* just the criminal justice system is.  This is most especially the truth in the face of the *exact* chiral image- female circumcision - a practice that occurs in a region of the world often looked down upon and scorned by American society.


Female circumcision: illegal

Male circumcision: $499.99







The claims of medical benefits are absolute garbage.  There have been no studies that demonstrate that penises with foreskins are more prone to infection than those without when washed with soap and water.  To the ABSOLUTE contrary, the foreskin is present to protect the more sensitive glans and urethral opening of the penis from the external world.  NOT having a foreskin is MORE dangerous because an orifice is now exposed constantly.



The claims of STD prevention are garbage.  They reference the fatty, soft tissue of the foreskin being more prone to minute, sometimes even visible cracks, rips and tears which would cause blood to be released.  The theory here is that this blood raises the risk of infection and makes foreskins dangerous.


Foreskins DO raise the risk of a penis bleeding during sex, but the "protection" offered by circumcision hasn't been well studied and the BEST divergences in rates of infections that have been seen are 10-15%.  These are very isolated samples taken from AIDS riddled regions, typically in Africa, and there have not been enough of these or any of these with large enough sample sizes to be of merit.



10-15% differences in rates of infection.  That means having an HIV/AIDS person have sex with you until orgasm  makes you 50% likely instead of 64% likely to contract HIV.

This is ridiculous.  I wouldn't fuck someone with HIV/AIDS WITH A CONDOM.  But if you *are* going to have sex with someone with HIV/AIDS, the ONLY effective way in the world to lower the rates of transmission are *very* expensive medications and condoms.

Condoms, condoms, condoms.




Instead of devoting so much energy to harming children, maybe people should further criticize the church for not "approving" of condom usage/ declaring it unacceptable.


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Re: Male And Female Circumcision [Re: Humility]
    #16637690 -

DUDE... you are so far off base with this argument i dont even know where to start.

there is NONONONO religious/cultural implication behind my desire to defend circumcision or circumcise my children.

I simply like the way my wang looks, every woman I have been with has liked the way my wang looked. It works and feels great. My penile situation makes me so, very very, very!!! happy, in every single way, and I attribute a lot of that just to the aesthetic properties I have come to enjoy over the years. I thank my father deeply for making that decision so I wouldnt have to pine over doing it later on in life like he did. Your argument has changed nothing, because I cant identify with it whatsoever. Its like you guys are babbling about religion, cultural pressure, yada yada, pontificating on all these statistics which arent even in favor of your arguments, when ironically, all of it has absolutely nothing to do with for the people you are arguing against.


sooo soo fucking far off.


Cant you accept that some people LIKE it, and stop trying coerce everyone else to think like you by calling them violent offenders of human rights?


--------------------
notapillow said: "you are going about this endeavor all wrong. clear your mind of useless fear and concern. buy the ticket, take the ride, and all that.... "

ChrisWho said: "It's all about the journey, not the destination."

Edited by Mickalopagus (08/03/12 01:36 AM)

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