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Guilt
    #15995174 -

I am often looking at all my flaws as a person, measuring myself against others and looking for perceived weaknesses/trying to edit myself. I used to think of this as a kind of quality of honesty and perhaps it can be. I think a lot of my philosophies have been spawned from this aspect of myself. However I think a lot of it is imaginary or only real because I have thought it so.

Sometimes I think it would be great if I could just cut it out, I don't know if that's possible. Perhaps if you look at it as faulty thinking; as insignificant stupidities rather than becoming emotionally involved with it, then it would be possible or at least a game.

How about you and guilt? What do you feel the relationship is?


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"

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Re: Guilt [Re: Grapefruit] * 1
    #15995196 -

Guilt serves no useful purpose for the self.  It is a means of control in the service of culture imo at least in part.  Once you got it it's hard to get rid of.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Guilt [Re: Icelander]
    #15996314 -

Guilt is simply the feeling that is felt while imagining what other people would think of your actions.

For example, if you raped a young girl and murdered her you would feel guilty, not because you really give a shit (it felt good right?) but you would imagine what your mother would think, as well as what the girls family would think. These thoughts manifest one to believe the judgment is coming internally from a moral compass, rather than externally from those around you.

Guilt exists because in your head you carry around the personalities of those who matter most and they are the one who judge you internally when you commit such 'guilty' actions.

Let a man grow up in a forest, all by himself with no human personalities to tell him right or wrong. I would think he would feel no such thing as guilt. No dark misty face looking back at him from his sub conscious commanding him to feel bad, shunned and unapproved of.

An experiment for you: next time you feel guilty, try and figure out what person is judging you in your mind. It certainly won't be yourself.

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Re: Guilt [Re: Jwlst]
    #15996349 -

For example, if you raped a young girl and murdered her you would feel guilty, not because you really give a shit (it felt good right?) but you would imagine what your mother would think, as well as what the girls family would think. These thoughts manifest one to believe the judgment is coming internally from a moral compass, rather than externally from those around you.

Is that implying that we have no natural code of ethics or morals as human beings?

An experiment for you: next time you feel guilty, try and figure out what person is judging you in your mind. It certainly won't be yourself.

I do think you're on to something.

When I judge myself, I'm fairly sure I compare myself to what Chomsky said we shouldn't be, or Buddha said we shouldn't be, etc etc etc. I think this in turn makes me feel terribly guilty because I feel like I'm not using these so-called perfect traits that these figures have spelled out.


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http://picnic1.bandcamp.com/


:vegan:

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Re: Guilt [Re: Jwlst]
    #15999305 -

Jwlst said:
Guilt is simply the feeling that is felt while imagining what other people would think of your actions.

For example, if you raped a young girl and murdered her you would feel guilty, not because you really give a shit (it felt good right?) but you would imagine what your mother would think, as well as what the girls family would think. These thoughts manifest one to believe the judgment is coming internally from a moral compass, rather than externally from those around you.

Guilt exists because in your head you carry around the personalities of those who matter most and they are the one who judge you internally when you commit such 'guilty' actions.

Let a man grow up in a forest, all by himself with no human personalities to tell him right or wrong. I would think he would feel no such thing as guilt. No dark misty face looking back at him from his sub conscious commanding him to feel bad, shunned and unapproved of.

An experiment for you: next time you feel guilty, try and figure out what person is judging you in your mind. It certainly won't be yourself.


:thumbup:


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Live your Life! :heart:

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Re: Guilt [Re: Jwlst]
    #15999553 -

Jwlst said:
Guilt is simply the feeling that is felt while imagining what other people would think of your actions.

For example, if you raped a young girl and murdered her you would feel guilty, not because you really give a shit (it felt good right?) but you would imagine what your mother would think, as well as what the girls family would think. These thoughts manifest one to believe the judgment is coming internally from a moral compass, rather than externally from those around you.

Guilt exists because in your head you carry around the personalities of those who matter most and they are the one who judge you internally when you commit such 'guilty' actions.

Let a man grow up in a forest, all by himself with no human personalities to tell him right or wrong. I would think he would feel no such thing as guilt. No dark misty face looking back at him from his sub conscious commanding him to feel bad, shunned and unapproved of.

An experiment for you: next time you feel guilty, try and figure out what person is judging you in your mind. It certainly won't be yourself.


Don't think it's that simple, although I agree it's connected with others values, it's others values that you have adopted and failed to follow that causes guilt. So guilt is associated with others but it's also caused by things you believe are short comings in yourself, that are disconnect between your values and your actions.

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Re: Guilt [Re: falcon]
    #15999787 -

You spend all you money on coke and booze. Now you're broke and feeling guilty. Doesn't seem to have anything to do with judgment of other. For that matter 'other' isn't much different than self. All the same survival mechanisms in place, all the same capacity for judgment. To say that guilt is only associated with what others might think could be missing the point. We punish ourselves, and the net effect is increased survivability. We punish others for much the same reason. If the 'tribe' doesn't get it's ass in gear we're gonna be surviving alone.

Regarding the self, unless we see flaws we'll have the impression that we are perfect, which is fine til the shit hits the fan. That doesn't mean we need to dwell on the flaws and make 'guilty' a primary aspect of our personalities. Going with my recent theme, I have many flaws... but it's not that important. Useful guilt isn't a lasting kind of guilt. It points out how we could have done better, what if anything can be done now, and possibly how to avoid that feeling in the future, and then it's let go. Get the message and hang up the phone.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: Guilt [Re: Rahz]
    #15999995 -

Quote:
Useful guilt isn't a lasting kind of guilt. It points out how we could have done better, what if anything can be done now, and possibly how to avoid that feeling in the future, and then it's let go. Get the message and hang up the phone.


Yep.

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Re: Guilt [Re: Rahz]
    #16000144 -

Rahz said:
You spend all you money on coke and booze. Now you're broke and feeling guilty. Doesn't seem to have anything to do with judgment of other.


Why should you feel guilty about spending all your money on coke and booze? You would feel guilty because alot of people in your life would be disappointed that you made such a 'selfish' (aka an action that didn't benefit them) decision to enjoy yourself.

I wouldn't feel guilty if I spent all my money on coke and booze, but I guess I would feel pretty stupid if I then couldn't afford food.

Guilt only comes into play if I imagine what my partner would think of me.

While guilt is an internal emotion caused by internal decisions, it is the external influences that populate the courtroom in your mind.

Maybe you should think about who your judge, jury and executioner really are?


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Re: Guilt [Re: Rahz]
    #16000318 -

I wouldn't call the feeling I get when I blow all my money on a drug binge guilt, it's more like regret.


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Live your Life! :heart:

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Re: Guilt [Re: Jwlst]
    #16000833 -

Quote:
Maybe you should think about who your judge, jury and executioner really are?


Life itself is prone to manifest judgment. No less me than them. A lot of people use this knowledge to their advantage in what could be viewed as a more psychopathic approach to life, but there is also a more simplistic causative layer where the feelings that give rise to guilt are fairly innocent, though perhaps delusional.

From a philosophical viewpoint the key is that the feeling of guilt doesn't need to be a self judgment. So I think we agree in the sense that feeling of guilt isn't necessarily a defacto implication of it. If we can prevent ourselves from raising the importance of it to the level that we want to simply cast it aside or accept it as a self judgment, it's a pretty good means of refining our actions in desirable ways.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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