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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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Re: Guilt [Re: Veritas]
    #7295218 -

Veritas said:
You seem to be contradicting yourself.  You said:

"I agree that you do not feel guilty before you have learned what behavior is acceptable"

and then said:

"But I fail to see how this proves that an emotional response to such behavior is learned."

If you don't have an emotional response, you do not feel guilty.  If you do not feel guilty, you do not have an emotional response.  :confused:  This is what I said, and you agreed with me.

The feeling (emotion) is a new-brain interpretation of our old-brain fear response.  We associate this fear response with the learned thought that we have done something wrong, and then we experience guilt.

Am I misunderstanding your distinction between a feeling and an emotion?  :confused:


No.  I am not distinguishing between a feeling and an emotion.  I am distinguishing between a feeling and a cause for that feeling.

I am sorry if I am not conveying this articulately...but I'll try again:

"I agree that you do not feel guilty before you have learned what behavior is acceptable"

What I mean by this, is that I agree that the causes for the  guilty feeling are learned...in other words, parents saying "that's wrong" or shunning a child, the cause, the judgment...I agree that this is learned.

However the internal reaction, that feeling, is what I am arguing to be innate.

Now, here is something interesting that I have until now overlooked:

"The feeling (emotion) is a new-brain interpretation of our old-brain fear response.  We associate this fear response with the learned thought that we have done something wrong, and then we experience guilt."

To that all I can really say is that guilt does not feel like fear, really...so I don't know.  What you got there is an interesting hypothesis, based on ideas that are pretty new to me such as new brain and old brain, by which I assume you mean the new brain to be a more sophisticated way of thinking than what is just instinct.  It is a very interesting thought and I might agree with it, perhaps if you can show me a logical argument that shows guilt being a new brain activity.

I guess what all that means is spell it out a little more if you don't mind.  Thanks.  I really like what you have contributed, I hope you can begrudge me another response.


--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)

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Re: Guilt [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #7295261 -

If I am understanding you correctly doob, you are wondering why (or if) we inherently want to please others instead of displeasing them?

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Re: Guilt [Re: adrug]
    #7296039 -

No


--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)

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Re: Guilt [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #7296845 -

My comments are based on Triune Brain Theory, which delineates the functions of the human brain by the way it evolved.

Emotions originate in the older, Limbic brain, which is interconnected with the Neocortex (translation: New Brain). Guilt is based upon rational thinking skills ("what I did was not OK"), which give rise to an emotional reaction. As young children do not display this emotion prior to being taught that some behaviors are not OK, guilt is a learned, complex emotion.

Edited by Veritas (08/15/07 01:41 PM)

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Re: Guilt [Re: Veritas]
    #7297643 -

Page does not exist.

But I think I get what you are saying.

Guilt exists as a new brain phenomenon and is therefore learned because it is based on a degree of reason.

Correct?


--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)

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Re: Guilt [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #7297679 -

I fixed it. Yes, that is what I am saying. We learn to use the reasoning capacity of our Neocortex, though our reasoning may trigger emotions which are innate. Guilt is an amalgam of a new-brain thought (I did something wrong) and an old-brain emotion (fear).

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Re: Guilt [Re: Veritas]
    #7299780 -

The prefrontal cortex and superior temporal sulcus are the areas of the brain associated with processing social and moral emotions such as guilt. Fear is processed mainly by the amygalae and hippocampus. Guilt and fear are two very distinct emotions. In the context of Triune theory, guilt is part of the 'new' brain while fear is deep within the 'reptilian' part of the brain.

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Re: Guilt [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #7300688 -

It makes more sense to me to think of guilt as a new-brain translation of fear. Emotions are not generated within the new brain, though they may be further amended and expanded upon within it.

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