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OfflineJohnnyRespect
Nomadic Wanderer
Registered: 04/17/03
Posts: 676
Loc: East Coast
Last seen: 14 years, 20 days
Op:Iraqi Freedom as a push for oil money? I don't think so..
    #1491634 - 04/25/03 02:07 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Greets,
Since we first heard the rumblings coming from the White Houses war drums, liberals have been shouting and protesting how the war is an obvious ploy by that Texan Oil Tycoon Bush to get some more oil for the US. They state that it will boost our economy. Well, for that to happen, we'd have to make money by taking the oil. Let me explain why that will never happen.

The estimated output of Iraqi oil fields is 1.1 million barrels per day. The price of cude, as of today, is 26.65$. If we multiply those to see just how much money selling all of that oil would be, we obtain a figure of 29,315,000$ per day. That is how much all of Iraq's oil output would be SOLD for, this doesn't include the cost of business that would subtract from the profit.

Now, Bush has told us, and congress, that the cost of the war is eighty billion dollars (thats 80,000,000,000$). If we take the total amount that JUST the war (not the humanitarian aide, etc) cost us and divide by the amount of money we would in a "perfect" business make from the oil fieldsper day, we can see how many days it would take us to earn back the 80 bil we spent. 80,000,000,000 / 29,315,000 = 2728.978 days to earn back our money. divide that by 365 (for years) and we get 7.476 years. So, if we had a business plan that is impossible (pure profit, no cost/overhead), if we took EVERY, SINGLE penny that the nation of Iraq earned from selling it's oil, then in seven and a half years we'd have made back JUST what it cost us to fight the war. That sounds,to me, like a pretty big hole in the "war for oil" theory.


Pz

johnny R


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As I felt the soft cool mud squish between my toes, I thought, Man, these are not very good shoes!


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OfflineI_Fart_Blue
Stranger

Registered: 06/25/02
Posts: 3,495
Loc: SItting on the Group W Be...
Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
Re: Op:Iraqi Freedom as a push for oil money? I don't think so.. [Re: JohnnyRespect]
    #1491846 - 04/25/03 03:11 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Adding more oil to the supply drops the price per barrel, and in turn lowers the cost of gasoline, which in turn raises the real income of American consumers who now have more money due to the increase in real income which they can spend on other goods. This bolsters the economy and GWB is a hero.


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"A study of the history of opinion is a necessary preliminary to the emancipation of the mind. I do not know which makes a man more conservative-to know nothing but the present, or nothing but the past." -John Maynard Keynes


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OfflineI_Fart_Blue
Stranger

Registered: 06/25/02
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Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
Re: Op:Iraqi Freedom as a push for oil money? I don't think so.. [Re: I_Fart_Blue]
    #1491872 - 04/25/03 03:27 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

This naturally would be counteracted by the cost of going to war through taxation, but it wil be likely be "hiddien" from taxpayers through deficit spending. I don't know much about the oil industry so I couldn't even begin to predict a price change. The real income effect that a drop in oil prices could potentially be greter than $80 bil, though I doubt it, at least not this year anyway.


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"A study of the history of opinion is a necessary preliminary to the emancipation of the mind. I do not know which makes a man more conservative-to know nothing but the present, or nothing but the past." -John Maynard Keynes


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Offlineatomikfunksoldier
T'was born oftrue in the yearof the cock!

Registered: 04/07/03
Posts: 1,500
Loc: a human-infested anthill
Last seen: 13 years, 9 months
Re: Op:Iraqi Freedom as a push for oil money? I don't think so.. [Re: I_Fart_Blue]
    #1492023 - 04/25/03 05:09 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

umm...since when do wars cost money? i mean sure...they cost money...but who where does that money go to? the american government? YOU GUESSED IT!! YOU WIN A BILLION DOLLARS!


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enjoy the entertaining indentity i have constructed for you while you can.


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OfflineJohnnyRespect
Nomadic Wanderer
Registered: 04/17/03
Posts: 676
Loc: East Coast
Last seen: 14 years, 20 days
Re: Op:Iraqi Freedom as a push for oil money? I don't think so.. [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1492161 - 04/25/03 08:24 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

I_FART - Um, yea, the econ doesn't work that way exactly. We still have 80 billion dollars to pay for the war.





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As I felt the soft cool mud squish between my toes, I thought, Man, these are not very good shoes!


Edited by Rono (04/25/03 03:13 PM)


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OfflineI_Fart_Blue
Stranger

Registered: 06/25/02
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Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
Re: Op:Iraqi Freedom as a push for oil money? I don't think so.. [Re: JohnnyRespect]
    #1492429 - 04/25/03 10:54 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

You showed me, not to mention all of my economics professors.



Wait. No. That is exactly the opposite of what happened. Do you really want a lesson on the real income effect and deficit spending, or do you maybe want to accept that somebody who is working on a degree in economics may have some clue as to what they are talking about? Either is fine with me.


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"A study of the history of opinion is a necessary preliminary to the emancipation of the mind. I do not know which makes a man more conservative-to know nothing but the present, or nothing but the past." -John Maynard Keynes


Edited by Rono (04/25/03 03:14 PM)


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InvisibleBuddha5254
addict
Registered: 04/23/00
Posts: 532
Re: Op:Iraqi Freedom as a push for oil money? I don't think so.. [Re: JohnnyRespect]
    #1492693 - 04/25/03 12:27 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

That is what their output is now. What about after Haliburton's subsidiary comes in, repairs infrastructure, and is fully able to exploit the 2nd largest oil reserves in the world? They will be exporting a hell of a lot more than 1.1 million barrels a day! More oil=drop in prices. Drop in gas prices here means stimulation for the economy through war. Gas is the "oil" of our economic machine.


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OfflineJohnnyRespect
Nomadic Wanderer
Registered: 04/17/03
Posts: 676
Loc: East Coast
Last seen: 14 years, 20 days
Re: Op:Iraqi Freedom as a push for oil money? I don't think so.. [Re: Buddha5254]
    #1493215 - 04/25/03 02:52 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

I wish I could be a liberal and play on "what if's" and stuff. Who the fuck cares, Iraq is ours, and if you don't like it, you should pay .20$ more for Iraq. As for I_F_B getting his degree in econonmics, my GF has her masters in Econ and one in accounting, so if you'd like to debate, i'd be happy to let you talk to her.


Pz

Johnny R


--------------------
As I felt the soft cool mud squish between my toes, I thought, Man, these are not very good shoes!


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OfflineI_Fart_Blue
Stranger

Registered: 06/25/02
Posts: 3,495
Loc: SItting on the Group W Be...
Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
Re: Op:Iraqi Freedom as a push for oil money? I don't think so.. [Re: JohnnyRespect]
    #1493248 - 04/25/03 03:02 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Good for her. But I am not debating with her am I? It was you who challenged what I said and made a rediculous claim about something which you obviously have no clue about. Backup what you said if you think you're right. Otherwise don't bother posting a reply, because I will entertain nothing else but.


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"A study of the history of opinion is a necessary preliminary to the emancipation of the mind. I do not know which makes a man more conservative-to know nothing but the present, or nothing but the past." -John Maynard Keynes


Edited by I_Fart_Blue (04/25/03 03:23 PM)


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OfflineRonoS
DSYSB since '01
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/26/01
Posts: 16,243
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Last seen: 4 months, 19 days
Re: Op:Iraqi Freedom as a push for oil money? I don't think so.. [Re: I_Fart_Blue]
    #1493295 - 04/25/03 03:15 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Both of you need to play nice...I have no problems banning either one or both of you if this turns into a flame fest.


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"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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OfflineI_Fart_Blue
Stranger

Registered: 06/25/02
Posts: 3,495
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Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
Re: Op:Iraqi Freedom as a push for oil money? I don't think so.. [Re: Rono]
    #1493330 - 04/25/03 03:24 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

You're imagining things, Rono.


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"A study of the history of opinion is a necessary preliminary to the emancipation of the mind. I do not know which makes a man more conservative-to know nothing but the present, or nothing but the past." -John Maynard Keynes


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,203
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Op:Iraqi Freedom as a push for oil money? I don't think so.. [Re: I_Fart_Blue]
    #1493337 - 04/25/03 03:24 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

You're imagining things, Rono.



Power has not been good for him.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineAzmodeus
Seeker

Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3,392
Loc: Lotus Land!! B.C.
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
Re: Op:Iraqi Freedom as a push for oil money? I don't think so.. [Re: Rono]
    #1493352 - 04/25/03 03:27 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Fucking rono brandishes his modly powers again....
Does it make you feel powerful to threaten people with banning?


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"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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OfflineI_Fart_Blue
Stranger

Registered: 06/25/02
Posts: 3,495
Loc: SItting on the Group W Be...
Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
Re: Op:Iraqi Freedom as a push for oil money? I don't think so.. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1493360 - 04/25/03 03:29 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Well in his defence, I did edit the flames out of my post. They were good too.... :frown:


--------------------
"A study of the history of opinion is a necessary preliminary to the emancipation of the mind. I do not know which makes a man more conservative-to know nothing but the present, or nothing but the past." -John Maynard Keynes


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,203
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Op:Iraqi Freedom as a push for oil money? I don't think so.. [Re: I_Fart_Blue]
    #1493366 - 04/25/03 03:30 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

They may have been. That doesn't change the fact that the mod powers seems to have not been good for him.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Op:Iraqi Freedom as a push for oil money? I don't think so.. [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1493369 - 04/25/03 03:31 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Rono is not only powerful, he is wise too...

and compassionate and generous and Canadian.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,203
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Op:Iraqi Freedom as a push for oil money? I don't think so.. [Re: Evolving]
    #1493374 - 04/25/03 03:33 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

I'll buy the Canadian part...... but as for the rest......
**pre-edited for Rono**

:grin:


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineI_Fart_Blue
Stranger

Registered: 06/25/02
Posts: 3,495
Loc: SItting on the Group W Be...
Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
Re: Op:Iraqi Freedom as a push for oil money? I don't think so.. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1493378 - 04/25/03 03:34 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Bah, he's just doin his job, enforcing the rules of the forum. I don't fault him for that. I've actually been fairly vocal about them not being enforced. I figured I'd probably catch some hell for my post. Rono happened to catch it faster than I thought he would.


--------------------
"A study of the history of opinion is a necessary preliminary to the emancipation of the mind. I do not know which makes a man more conservative-to know nothing but the present, or nothing but the past." -John Maynard Keynes


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,203
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Op:Iraqi Freedom as a push for oil money? I don't think so.. [Re: I_Fart_Blue]
    #1493392 - 04/25/03 03:38 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Bah, he's just doin his job, enforcing the rules of the forum. I don't fault him for that. I've actually been fairly vocal about them not being enforced. I figured I'd probably catch some hell for my post. Rono happened to catch it faster than I thought he would.



While I suspect he'd be fun to party with, I think he's not the man for this job. And I voted for him!


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleslime_R
The Good Doctor

Registered: 04/20/02
Posts: 858
Re: Op:Iraqi Freedom as a push for oil money? I don't think [Re: JohnnyRespect]
    #1493469 - 04/25/03 03:52 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

You get'em farty.

Getting oil will definitly help our economy a lot. To put it simply, the surplus of oil will lower the price of oil thus making us pay less for it. We will then have that savings to spend in other sectors of the market. So the money I save on oil will be spent on a new pair of whitey tighties at wal-mart which will be part of somebodies paycheck which they will spend somewhere else and on and on. It multiplies.

Also if we are spending money on the war for, say, a couple jets, the government pays boeing for them which in turn pays all the american workers at boeing. We're giving ourselves money.


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