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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Orgone's Wager [Re: Icelander]
    #14722529 -

Wrong. Anarchy doesn't result in war. It results in government!

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Re: Orgone's Wager [Re: GuruBushHippie]
    #14722538 -

GuruBushHippie said:
Never heard of a bear raping a human. What's your obsession  with rape anyways?


It's Key to have a word.  When you say the word it means stop.  Stop isn't the word.  Stop is when you say the word.  Get it?


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Anxiety is what you make it.

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Re: Orgone's Wager [Re: xFrockx]
    #14722548 -

xFrockx said:
Wrong. Anarchy doesn't result in war. It results in government!



First war where the strong take over to form a govt.


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Orgone's Wager [Re: Icelander]
    #14722991 -

yeah.. governments never occur unless preceded by a war...


anyway I think there is a better way to put down pascals wager and I will start another thread about it.

As for Orgone's wager, it doesnt really solve anything. Living eternally in hell is not a 'win' in my book, especially if there is brimstone and hellfire


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Re: Orgone's Wager [Re: Noteworthy]
    #14723116 -

"governments never occur unless preceded by a war..."

Never say never.

How can there be a war if there are no governments? Hmm... think about it... there can be no proper war unless there already are governments, or powers at least, groups of people bound to a common cause, what more is a government?

So the first governments, groupings of people bound by a common cause (even if it were families), out of pure anarchy (if there ever even were such a thing) were necessarily forged out of the desire to cooperate between people who had not been previously.

Now if were going to call tribes less than nations and their agreements less than government then maybe you have a case, albeit a semantic one. I don't believe there is any fundamental difference between the action of one person and the action of all people. Given the same information and the same circumstances, we are the same. But in reality, we can't have the same of either.

So when I think about anarchy, I like to think about what it would be like to be one person who lived totally without rules, and try to look at the unified action of the whole group given different circumstances as I would react as one person. Like if I was thirsty, and someone had the last of the water, i would have to decide what to do. I could kill them, since there were no laws, or I could see that it would take a lot of energy to kill them, and that it would be too much effort, and so I wouldn't, and I could justify that decision that left me thirsty because it was wrong. Or I might say nothing about it, and just opt out of killing the person and just walk off, without any bones about it, just a little more thirsty. Or I could ask them for some water, which I hadn't actually thought of as an option for some time, so that must be why civilization took so long. If they said yes I could accept or refuse, for any given reason or none, if they said no I could try to convince them or go back to option B of killing them or leaving, for any given reason or none. Or I could kill myself and eliminate my need for water, or asking for water, or leaving, or wondering where to go when I leave, but then I wouldn't have any reason to kill myself either so there's not really any point to that. A whole society can kill themselves, like in cults and other things, probably for the same reasons as one person would.

Ah I'm just typing this all out for my own amusement, you don't have to read it, but if you made it this far, too late, I'm so sorry.

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Re: Orgone's Wager [Re: xFrockx]
    #14723168 -

But by that definition, Anarchy is impossible because there will always be natural 'governments' formed by tribal or brotherly relations.

So you cant say that 'anarchy' results in 'governments'. Youre actually saying that anarchy doesnt trully exist and that any attempt to create anarchy just results in a change of governments (perhaps a disunity of one large government into many smaller governments).


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Re: Orgone's Wager [Re: Noteworthy]
    #14723277 -

Actually I'm not saying anything of the sort. What I said about anarchy resulting in governments is a joke, derived from some sense of both words. We both can understand both words in a lot of different ways, we would require governments to meet certain criteria, whatever they may be, and anarchy to meet some predefined level of the lack of whatever we defined a government to be. So there's a lot of room there, some could call the current state of any country Anarchy given certain circumstances, and anyone could call an anarchy, even if it were just a stray dogs, a kind of government due to the inevitable interaction between individuals, at least for mating. Hell, we can think of a single organism as a government of millions of cells, all working together with unified purpose and lead by a central nervous system. Imagine if they called congress a nervous system. Might change the mood a bit. "Congress" is a fine name for how they run the place now.

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Re: Orgone's Wager [Re: xFrockx]
    #14723534 -

OK so you are suggesting more that anarchy refers to the extent to which something is ungoverned, and government the extent to which something is governed, and that nothing is absolutely anarchic or governed, but all thigns are relatively more or less anarchic than eachother


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Re: Orgone's Wager [Re: Noteworthy]
    #14724017 -

Noteworthy said:
yeah.. governments never occur unless preceded by a war...


anyway I think there is a better way to put down pascals wager and I will start another thread about it.

As for Orgone's wager, it doesnt really solve anything. Living eternally in hell is not a 'win' in my book, especially if there is brimstone and hellfire



Or I'd say some kind of conflict where the powerful take control.  You have no govt without leaders of one sort or another.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Orgone's Wager [Re: Icelander]
    #14724030 -

Metaphysically, all beliefs are primitive.


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Re: Orgone's Wager [Re: Noteworthy]
    #14724405 -

That's only if you believe that there are things rather than one unified whole of existence. In the latter, there is neither war nor anarchy, just the process of one thing.

But I don't hold either idea.

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Re: Orgone's Wager [Re: Icelander]
    #14724499 -

Icelander said:
Noteworthy said:
yeah.. governments never occur unless preceded by a war...


anyway I think there is a better way to put down pascals wager and I will start another thread about it.

As for Orgone's wager, it doesnt really solve anything. Living eternally in hell is not a 'win' in my book, especially if there is brimstone and hellfire



Or I'd say some kind of conflict where the powerful take control.  You have no govt without leaders of one sort or another.


So let's say (Google Mount Weather) that there is a completely separate shadow government waiting underground with different rules and different players but the game remains sort of the same.  President, VP, etc.  And "they" get to decide at what point the takeover occurs but "they" are not the shadow gov.  The real PTB would never be in the gov they gov the gov.


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Anxiety is what you make it.

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Re: Orgone's Wager [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #14724520 -

What is PTB?

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Re: Orgone's Wager [Re: NetDiver]
    #14724529 -

What about that one?

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Re: Orgone's Wager [Re: Icelander]
    #14726020 -

I don't recall mentioning any sort of full anarchy. I'm talking more of a Sons of Liberty type of mindset. No government ever changed for the better because people sat around and did nothing. French rev., American rev., current revolutions in the middle east, etc. As far as im concerned I still have the natural right to do as i damn well please and if my government doesnt want to honor that then maybe we oughta start over from scratch and see if we can do better on the second attempt. At least start over and try to get the democracy thing right the second time around. My point is it never hurts to try something new. We're only here for a short time before we move on and merge with the Tao, might as well try and make it as pleasant as possible right?


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Two roads diverged in a wood, and I cut straight through the forest, and that has made all the difference.

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Re: Orgone's Wager [Re: GuruBushHippie]
    #14726037 -

What's wrong with our current constitution? If it was upheld I would be happy with it.

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Re: Orgone's Wager [Re: GuruBushHippie]
    #14726079 -

As far as im concerned I still have the natural right to do as i damn well please

Sounds like anarchy to me?  :shrug:

Natural right? :lol: Didn't know there was such a thing.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Orgone's Wager [Re: Icelander]
    #14726097 -

What do you call it when an insect colony hierarchy breaks down?

Antarchy. :crazy:


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Re: Orgone's Wager [Re: xFrockx]
    #14727677 -

xFrockx said:
What is PTB?


Powers That Be.  The big money elite.


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Anxiety is what you make it.

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Re: Orgone's Wager [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14727689 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
What do you call it when an insect colony hierarchy breaks down?

Antarchy. :crazy:


Did you have one of those ant colonies when you were a kid?  Did you name the ants?


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

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