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Offlineatomikfunksoldier
T'was born oftrue in the yearof the cock!

Registered: 04/08/03
Posts: 1,500
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Re: Anarchist Society [Re: cybrbeast]
    #1755988 - 07/28/03 08:44 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

anarchy is impossible with the population we have right now, well...it is possible...but itwould be complete mayhem and destruction. Why does communism sound good cybrbeast? why should every moment of our lives be under government control?


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Offlinecybrbeast
Up, then down, then...
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Re: Anarchist Society [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1756091 - 07/28/03 09:17 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

The idea of communism wasn't that we were totally controlled. The main idea was to share wealth equally. But because communism always gets corrupted things turned our like they did in the Sovjet Union.


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InvisibleTomJoad
Goddamn Red
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Registered: 07/13/03
Posts: 205
Loc: Oregon
Re: Anarchist Society [Re: cybrbeast]
    #1756428 - 07/28/03 11:04 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

an anarchist society could at some point happen, but the people who are trying to bring it about must do so in creative ways, not by way of violence or coercion, which are in my opinion authoritarian and therefore non-anarchist. I personally think that an anarchist society would be largely made up by regional federations, that is groups of people bound together by geographic ties, sharing resources and knowledge to help each other. These federations would form working groups to do what needed to be done for the good of the community (build highways, fight fires, whatever). Fourier and Reclus are some good names to look up for ideas such as these. These federations would be in contact w/ each other and work together in such a way as to ensure equal opportunities for all individuals. Of course, being an anarchist society, it would be free form and people would be able to see what works best for them, and society would evolve as time went by. A lot of old-school anarchists were into the idea of the commune, or anarcho-communalism. These communes function in a similar way to the federations I just described, they grow their own food and trade with other communes, etc. Unfortunately many anarchists are in love with the idea of being anarchists and wearing the symbols but not necessarily living it. Drama and power struggles can pull people apart, even "anarchists". Since we have been imprinted from birth with societal rules, it is hard for many people to grasp the possibility of an anarchist society. Many anarchists promote the reform of the workplace as the main necessity on the road to anarchism, but I disagree, i think that the neighborhoods, where the children are raised, are the most important unit of society, because this is where new people learn the way the world works. If they do not learn that the world is a place where people take advantage of each other and that is the way it works, but rather that the world is a place where people can live in harmony and help each other, we will have more people in the world who will be able to learn to get by w/o fucking others over. The most important step to such a society is to teach by example and live your ideals. One must come to terms with the fact that their goal cannot be achieved by throwing molotov cocktails or breaking windows, in my opinion violent revolutions will always regress back to oppression. What is needed for true change is an ideological revolution, which is much harder to achieve, but would have more lasting benifits. A goal such as an anarchist society must be understood as a distant possibility, and accepted as such. One must understand that they will most likely not see it in their own lifetime.


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Invisibleiglou
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Registered: 03/08/02
Posts: 295
Re: Anarchist Society [Re: 0toxic0]
    #1756474 - 07/28/03 11:17 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

here it is: the anarchist FAQ - probably the best resource on the internet regarding anarchist theory.

Also check out: www.mutualist.net (my personal favorite - I am more aligned with the mutualists in thought/practice).

Mutualists belong to a non-collectivist segment of anarchists. Although we favor democratic control when collective action is required by the nature of production and other cooperative endeavors, we do not favor collectivism as an ideal in itself. We are not opposed to money or exchange. We believe in private property, so long as it is based on personal occupancy and use. We favor a society in which all relationships and transactions are non-coercive, and based on voluntary cooperation, free exchange, or mutual aid. The "market," in the sense of exchanges of labor between producers, is a profoundly humanizing and liberating concept. What we oppose is the conventional understanding of markets, as the idea has been coopted and corrupted by state capitalism.

Our ultimate vision is of a society in which the economy is organized around free market exchange between producers, and production is carried out mainly by self-employed artisans and farmers, small producers' cooperatives, worker-controlled large enterprises, and consumers' cooperatives. To the extent that wage labor still exists (which is likely, if we do not coercively suppress it), the removal of statist privileges will result in the worker's natural wage, as Benjamin Tucker put it, being his full product.


Another favorite is: THE IRON FIST BEHIND THE INVISIBLE HAND - Corporate Capitalism As a State-Guaranteed System of Privilege by Kevin A. Carson.

peace.



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OfflineDoctorJ
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Re: Anarchist Society [Re: iglou]
    #1757217 - 07/29/03 04:10 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Anarchy

latin- an - "without"
archy "rule" or "method of goverment"

there can be no such thing as an "anarchist society" as "society" implies government or at aleast some kind of consensual system comprised of rules.

An individual who does not personally adhere to a code or government is entirely possible, all though this is highly debateable when it comes to the laws of physics.

oh yeah, and people need to stop confusing communism with socialism. Communism implies extreme government regulation of resources and socialism is more of an idealistically impossible scenario where no one owns anything.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Anarchist Society [Re: DoctorJ]
    #1757390 - 07/29/03 05:08 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

DoctorJ said:
socialism is more of an idealistically impossible scenario where no one owns anything.




Socialism is the government model of choice for Canada and most of Europe... It seems to work quite well, in fact.
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlineatomikfunksoldier
T'was born oftrue in the yearof the cock!

Registered: 04/08/03
Posts: 1,500
Loc: a human-infested anthill
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Re: Anarchist Society [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1757445 - 07/29/03 05:23 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

no, the canadian and european governments are not socialist, they are primarily capitalist with socialist elements.


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Offlinemonoamine
umask 077(nonefor you)

Registered: 09/07/02
Posts: 3,095
Loc: Jacksonville,FL
Last seen: 17 years, 4 months
Re: Anarchist Society [Re: DoctorJ]
    #1757451 - 07/29/03 05:25 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

oh yeah, and people need to stop confusing communism with socialism.




That's what I've been saying.People tend to use the two words interchangebly 'round these here parts.


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People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything...
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Offlineatomikfunksoldier
T'was born oftrue in the yearof the cock!

Registered: 04/08/03
Posts: 1,500
Loc: a human-infested anthill
Last seen: 19 years, 4 months
Re: Anarchist Society [Re: monoamine]
    #1757457 - 07/29/03 05:26 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

yeah, because socialism is cool and communism sucks.


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Offlinemonoamine
umask 077(nonefor you)

Registered: 09/07/02
Posts: 3,095
Loc: Jacksonville,FL
Last seen: 17 years, 4 months
Re: Anarchist Society [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1757497 - 07/29/03 05:38 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Sarcasm? Seriously,they are not the same thing.

BTW,I stumbled into the wrong place.I thought this was the political forum.


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People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything...
Douglas Adams


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Offlineatomikfunksoldier
T'was born oftrue in the yearof the cock!

Registered: 04/08/03
Posts: 1,500
Loc: a human-infested anthill
Last seen: 19 years, 4 months
Re: Anarchist Society [Re: monoamine]
    #1757509 - 07/29/03 05:41 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

of course they arent the same thing....thats why i said socialism is cool and communism sucks, because socialism can be balanced with capitalism which results in a healthy, free society, while communism will always result in disaster.

ALWAYS! same goes for pure capitalism, you commie capitalist pigs!


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Offlinemonoamine
umask 077(nonefor you)

Registered: 09/07/02
Posts: 3,095
Loc: Jacksonville,FL
Last seen: 17 years, 4 months
Re: Anarchist Society [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1757553 - 07/29/03 05:52 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Sorry,I've been spending too much time over in the political forum. Usually after I post something, some "righty" chimes in with a sarcastic comment. I call this the "Luvdemshrooms effect".


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People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything...
Douglas Adams


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Offlineatomikfunksoldier
T'was born oftrue in the yearof the cock!

Registered: 04/08/03
Posts: 1,500
Loc: a human-infested anthill
Last seen: 19 years, 4 months
Re: Anarchist Society [Re: monoamine]
    #1757560 - 07/29/03 05:54 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

yes, ive suffered through that effect many times, stay vigilant, and ignorance shall evaporate as you burn the torch of intelligence my friend.


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InvisibleTomJoad
Goddamn Red
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Registered: 07/13/03
Posts: 205
Loc: Oregon
Re: Anarchist Society [Re: DoctorJ]
    #1757641 - 07/29/03 06:21 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

DoctorJ said:
Anarchy

latin- an - "without"
archy "rule" or "method of goverment"

there can be no such thing as an "anarchist society" as "society" implies government or at aleast some kind of consensual system comprised of rules.






The "arkhos" root in the case of the "political" form of anarchy or anarchism, as opposed to the "chaos" definition commonly applied, refers not to rules as in social commands or barriers, but rule as in authority. The prefix of an "-archy" word, in the sense of a political or social structure, tells where this authority lies, as in "patriarchy", in which the authority lies in "fathers", or the elder males of the society, for example. In the case of "anarchy" or "anarchism", no group is exercising authority over any other. "An" can be translated to mean "without" or "against", both of which are appropriate in this case. "Rules," if consensual, can exist in an anarchist society, as social guidelines, rather than social commands, and if someone strays from these guidelines, no other person is required to interact with them, which, in a closely related anarchist community would be a grave lesson learned. Anthropologically, this is known as "shunning", a commonly used technique in many tribal cultures. It is not an active punishment or show of authority, but rather a group of individuals enacting their right to choose who to associate with based on what they know of each other. In a community where one depends on one's peers rather than just money, people can learn the ramifications of negative actions and will not get far without cooperating and working together. In conclusion, anarchists are not against rules, but against the concept of rulers. And one can theoretically exist without the other. In a game of chess, for example, there are rules, but they are not enforced with an iron fist. If someone consistently breaks the rules of the game, the other person will not want to play with them, and the rule breaker will be on his own again. I realize this is quite an oversimplification, but I feel like i'm being too wordy. That's all I've got at the moment.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Anarchist Society [Re: TomJoad]
    #1757677 - 07/29/03 06:31 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

That's all I've got at the moment.




And that's all you needed. VERY good points indeed.
I think that you pretty much summed up the definition of the word anarchy. I think it would work this way, but it would be harder to get started with this many people. Something would have to happen to reduce the population, or a conscious decison to divide into smaller groups. I don't know, though, I really think that this would have to start with a termination of 3/4ths of the people here, and that the last 1/4th would be basically on the same page (maybe that is why some anarchists are so miliant, to wipe everybody off that will undermine their plans).
The problem with that, of course, is how far back we would be set, in terms of technology, etc. 3/4ths of the world gone takes away a lot of the knowledge bank.
Rather, I think we'd all have to get an "upgrade" on our ways of thinking, and all have to agree to coexist. I think, right now, this is when the major change will happen. Things have to get really bad before we can learn from the mistakes that got us this far, to be able to move on from those mistakes. Prepare to have your faith tested...
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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