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Invisible0toxic0
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Anarchist Society *DELETED*
    #1750449 - 07/26/03 12:07 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

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Invisiblechodamunky
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Re: Anarchist Society [Re: 0toxic0]
    #1750595 - 07/26/03 01:47 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Isn't anarchy the way humans have lived for 3 million years up until like 10,000 - 5000 years ago when the hunter/gatherer life style turned into an agricultural society? Agriculture is the root of all modern things, because once you start growing your own stuff you begin to have a surplus for which you can trade and begin acquiring material possessions you normally wouldn't have, you begin dividing up land and claiming terrirtory, you need to guard your surplus and animals, you develop methods and technology to improve your yield... .and that's basically where we are now in a nutshell but with a lot more technology. I don't think it is possible to go back to those anarachistic ways of the past, but I think a lot of people have a nostalgia for the "living off the land with no authority" lifestyle because our present world societies are so fucked up.


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OfflineFaaip_De_Oiad
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Re: Anarchist Society [Re: 0toxic0]
    #1750613 - 07/26/03 01:53 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

well, here's the thing, humans are ruined by greed, this is why anarchy in our world would never work, people always want more, and if there were no rules, then there would be people just taking and taking, no one would be there to stop them, because they wouldn't be doing anything wrong, there would be no rules to break, and since there would be no rules, there would also be no consequence either.

but maybe you don't mean true anarchy, maybe you mean a society where people agree not to harm each other and where everyone works in harmony in the absence of rules, well this is a utopia, which I believe is impossible for humans to achieve, just due to our very nature, greed, malice, there will always be people who will want to take something from you or harm you, and so unless you're ready to kill everyone who wants to take all of your food or whatever, you better be happy that the rules are in place and (kinda) working




I'm not gonna read over this, so I'm sorry if it makes no sense


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OfflineRhizoid
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Re: Anarchist Society [Re: chodamunky]
    #1750623 - 07/26/03 01:58 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I hate "me too" postings, but I'm doing it anyway: :thumbup: to chodamunky for those insightful words.


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: Anarchist Society [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1750655 - 07/26/03 02:06 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

anarchy is physically impossible, but it is an ethereal concept that is very real and very dear to me :smile:


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Anonymous

Re: Anarchist Society [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1750659 - 07/26/03 02:07 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

ditto.

very good point chodamonkey.


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OfflineRhizoid
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Re: Anarchist Society [Re: DoctorJ]
    #1750699 - 07/26/03 02:35 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I try to make consensual anarchy real wherever I see a chance of it working. In my household (which currently only consists of one person who loves me very much, but it's still a challenge sometimes), among my friends, my workmates, and everyone I associate with. But I think it's going to take a very long time to make this happen on a larger scale. And it can't be forced, because that destroys the entire concept...


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OfflineMAIA
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Re: Anarchist Society [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1750953 - 07/26/03 05:11 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

but maybe you don't mean true anarchy, maybe you mean a society where people agree not to harm each other and where everyone works in harmony in the absence of rules




People often confuse the word anarchy for anarchism, anarchy is reigning chaos, anarchism is an archetype, an idealistic notion of a perfect society. The philosophical meaning of the word anarchism has changed as people mind have also changed, first modern anarchist idealists like Peter Kropotkin and Bakunin made their message valid even for today, their crude and nude analysis of the capitalistic system and all it destroys is an accurate vision and deserves a well spent reading, others more interventionists made their message be heard by the sound of bombs and terrorism which i find a bad approach of the meaning of anarchism.
The quote at the top, there always seem difficult to people to solve the problem of freedom and rules. Basically an anarchist society can only held people with the same values and that's the answer to the non existence of laws, the draw the line like this "my freedom ends where yours begin".
There is a functional problem, people do not have the same values, so there is something we must do, educate the young to share those values and grow a new generation of freethinkers, people with freedom but with the burden of responsibility.
If we must loose imposed social and cultural values to achieve such mentality, then we must do so no mater how much we'll suffer.
Anarchism, isn't for tomorrow or maybe it isn't a reality possible in 200 years but if we really want a free society or if we have to idealize one, it sure isn't this actual crap we call freedom that is going to change things for the better, neither this global capitalist system which exausts every resource on earth that is going to build a brilliant future. It's people and their minds that have to change first, when we do that we can really say something objective about how to build a better future, till then people must use their imagination as a primary engine to start things going. Defining something like anarchism is very noble approach, maybe some of the ideas can be use when we need to build a more free society.

Quote:

I try to make consensual anarchy real wherever I see a chance of it working. In my household (which currently only consists of one person who loves me very much, but it's still a challenge sometimes), among my friends, my workmates, and everyone I associate with. But I think it's going to take a very long time to make this happen on a larger scale. And it can't be forced, because that destroys the entire concept...




I totally agree with you. Sometimes people need to be motivated to do things, i often use constructive criticism to wake up some people, giving new ideas to people and making them thing by their selves also helps. But before we do that, we must be our biggest critics.

MAIA


--------------------
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Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
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OfflineGrav
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Re: Anarchist Society [Re: MAIA]
    #1751196 - 07/26/03 07:27 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

dependency on luxuries seems to be an obstacle.

imo, i think that's what freedom is to many people... the right to luxury that ended up in their possession for one reason or another. an objective view of things is all just philosophy... those toys are real and they want 'em.


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Anonymous

Re: Anarchist Society [Re: 0toxic0]
    #1751209 - 07/26/03 07:35 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

anarchy is good until it breaks down (30 seconds to 5 minutes tops).

the way i see it... if people didn't initiate force against eachother, we wouldn't need government. they do, so we do need government, but this should be its only concern.


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OfflineGrav
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Re: Anarchist Society [Re: ]
    #1751222 - 07/26/03 07:39 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

we need more balanced spread out leadership. there is too much of a communication break down between the average citizen and the decision making in the government. its no good.


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Anonymous

Re: Anarchist Society [Re: ]
    #1751303 - 07/26/03 08:18 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

MAIA, great post!

the way i see it... if people didn't initiate force against eachother, we wouldn't need government. they do, so we do need government, but this should be its only concern.

force can only be initiated when there is power behind it. this power stems from the hierachy of structure in our daily lives, mainly established by government. if this structure did not exist, and there was no way to impose power and force upon another individual, then its impossible for it to happen.


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Anonymous

Re: Anarchist Society [Re: ]
    #1751315 - 07/26/03 08:22 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

it is completely possible to impose force without the backing of an organized hierarchy. it happens any time there is an assault, murder, robbery, burglary, arson, rape, etc, etc, etc.

what do you think should happen when one person murders another person?


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Anonymous

Re: Anarchist Society [Re: ]
    #1751349 - 07/26/03 08:41 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

it is completely possible to impose force without the backing of an organized hierarchy. it happens any time there is an assault, murder, robbery, burglary, arson, rape, etc, etc, etc.

our laws which are established by government, are the moral code for the individual. these moral codes are easily broken because they are not attached to any thinking/reasoning of individuals thought process. an anarchist society will allow an individual to think out his own moral path, and absolute freedom will only progress towards good intentions.

those coercions towards others would not be present in anarchy because the will to do them would not exist, the means would not exist, the personnal benefit would not exist, and the good of human nature would prevent it from happening.


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Anonymous

Re: Anarchist Society [Re: ]
    #1751365 - 07/26/03 08:54 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

first... individuals have moral codes that are completely independent of what the government tells them they can and cannot do.

people do not lose their free will because laws are imposed upon them, and laws against murder and the like to not drive people to murder.

what you seem to be arguing is that imposing laws turns people into amoral zombies who cannot distinguish right and wrong, and who are doomed to do wrong to one another. abolishing government, and thereby law, will get rid of this, and we'll all live happily ever after...

please. that's the biggest load of shit i've heard all day, and i've been up since 6.


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OfflineScarfmeister
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Re: Anarchist Society [Re: ]
    #1751376 - 07/26/03 08:59 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

All it takes is one sinner to crush that house of cards.


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We're the lowest of the low, the scum of the fucking earth!


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Anarchist Society [Re: Scarfmeister]
    #1751513 - 07/26/03 10:08 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

.... Judas PRIEST, maybe.


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Re: Anarchist Society [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1755250 - 07/28/03 08:10 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I've always wondered how an anarchist society would build a highway. Would a group of people just stand up and say let's do it. And what about the people who don't want a highway in their backyard? We will just bend around their house. Hmm, what a nice highway that would be.
This goes for all infrastructure.


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OfflineTheHobbit
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Re: Anarchist Society [Re: cybrbeast]
    #1755298 - 07/28/03 08:39 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I like the idea of the partnership model discussed in Food of the Gods by McKenna, one inspired by use of the mushroom, dissolving ego boundaries and serving to maintain an equlibrium among members of the community. Unfortunately, I think it's almost inconceivable for the monotheistic/capitalist/dominator system of Western man to be overthrown now; it needed to be nipped in the bud a long time ago. The few rule the many, and the few have the means to maintain the status quo they've established for themselves, and keep at bay a more equitable/free/environmentally sustainable world through the brainwashing mechanism of TV, and the presence of force (cops and soldiers). If only eveyone could be enlightened through the use of mushrooms...


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Re: Anarchist Society [Re: TheHobbit]
    #1755316 - 07/28/03 08:46 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I'm not saying democracy is really good. In my opinion it's just the lesser evil. I think anarchism is totally naive. Communism sounds good but real communism is also an unattainable goal and so is real democracy.


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