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Re: U.S. to Host World Press Freedom Day in 2011 [Re: anarchOi]
    #13603063 -

> So basically it's kind of a "Haha, we can say what we want but youuuu guys can't!"

No, more of a "What can we do to help our oppressed brothers find the freedom of press that we enjoy."


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: U.S. to Host World Press Freedom Day in 2011 [Re: anarchOi]
    #13603298 -

anarchOi said:
Well I was mostly making a joke but...

I was under the impression that everyone realized that Fox selectively airs articles to suit their own agenda. IE: Bush Vs. Gore - obama ass kissing - etc


Well, I'd agree from what little I've seen of them, but I don't really get the point?  Fox News really isn't much of what I'd call the "Press" in the traditional sense of a news organization- its pretty much entirely talk shows.  Do they even have a news show on there?

Quote:
I understand that doesn't really reflect freedom of speech but rather a freedom of information.
America ONLY ever talks about America on the news



How does Fox talking about whatever they want implicate freedom of information?  If anything it vindicates it, given they aren't under government controll.  I don't get your point.

Quote:
With TSA scandal going down and anyone who speaks against the body scanners being auto-labeled a "domestic extremist"


Please back this up.  A large portion of the public seem to be against them as do many media personalities.  How do you figure they're labled extremists?  Either way, what does that have to do with press freedom or freedom of expression?  Someone called me a poo poo head once- is this a stain on the nation's reputation for open discourse?


Quote:
- I would say this reflects a decline in freedom of speech.


Again, why?  You say people are labling others this.  How does this reflect a decline?  The very act of taking a position on a contraversial government action reflects engagement on the issue which seems to speak highly of the freedom to do so.  How are you construing this disputed fact to reach the opposite conclusion?

Quote:
Why is there a Freedom of Press day anyway? What exactly does it mean? It's sort of confusing... If we have such a free press I wouldn't think we'd need a special day to clear our minds.


Has nothing to do with what we need.  Its an advocacy PR thang like all the other similar events of this nature

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Re: U.S. to Host World Press Freedom Day in 2011 [Re: johnm214]
    #13603332 -

> Fox News really isn't much of what I'd call the "Press" in the traditional sense of a news organization- its pretty much entirely talk shows.  Do they even have a news show on there?

I believe their affiliates have a nightly news program, much like other channels, that includes stories produced by the FOX News Network.  Their online news is also fairly decent.  However, the talk show crap is pretty much worthless.


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: U.S. to Host World Press Freedom Day in 2011 [Re: Seuss]
    #13603347 -

Seuss said:
Quote:
I'd have to agree the US seems like it should be quite a bit higher relative to the countries ranking above it.


Part of the problem is the wording of the questions.  For example, the following two:
Quote:
During this period, were there (Yes/No):
5. Armed militias or secret organisations regularly targeting journalists?
6. Journalists who had to have bodyguards or use security measures (such wearing
bulletproof jackets or using bulletproof vehicles) in the course of their work?


If a bunch of US reporters are following wars, then they will probably answer yes to the above questions because they are in a war zone, not because of anything that the US does to endanger them.


^this

U.S. press isn't exclusive to the United States.  Don't forget our foreign wars and occupations that are still going on to this day.  We can report as freely as we like about J. Lo's new haircut or the president getting a blowjob, but the brunt of the stuff for which a free press would actually be pertinent is happening overseas.  Welcome to U.S. foreign policy.

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Re: U.S. to Host World Press Freedom Day in 2011 [Re: SirNoseDvoidoFungi]
    #13603395 -

the guy who is on wiki leaks is austrailing so techinically he cant be held for treason

and /b/ proved he was innocent the first time when they showed the accuser had a site detailing how to scam men into charges.


--------------------
http://bunkpolice.com/basic-test-kit/
Vienna Declaration
Salvia Divinorum The Docudrahma

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Re: U.S. to Host World Press Freedom Day in 2011 [Re: Konyap]
    #13603612 -

Quote:
Man gets 33 months for threatening Obama in poem

LOUISVILLE, Ky. – A Kentucky man who acknowledged threatening President Barack Obama in a poem has been sentenced to nearly three years in prison.

Johnny Logan Spencer apologized for writing the poem, which described a fatal sniper shooting of the president.

The 28-year-old said in federal court in Louisville on Monday that he was upset over his mother's death and had fallen in with a white supremacist group that had helped him kick a drug habit.

U.S. District Judge Joseph H. McKinley Jr. called Spencer's writing of the poem an extremely dangerous thing. Spencer will be on supervised release for three years after he completes the 33-month sentence.

The poem, titled "The Sniper," was posted on a website in 2007 and again in 2009 after Obama took office.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101206/ap_on_re_us/us_obama_threat_arrest


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Re: U.S. to Host World Press Freedom Day in 2011 [Re: johnm214]
    #13603688 -

johnm214 said:
anarchOi said:
Well I was mostly making a joke but...

I was under the impression that everyone realized that Fox selectively airs articles to suit their own agenda. IE: Bush Vs. Gore - obama ass kissing - etc


Well, I'd agree from what little I've seen of them, but I don't really get the point?  Fox News really isn't much of what I'd call the "Press" in the traditional sense of a news organization- its pretty much entirely talk shows.  Do they even have a news show on there?

Quote:
I understand that doesn't really reflect freedom of speech but rather a freedom of information.
America ONLY ever talks about America on the news



How does Fox talking about whatever they want implicate freedom of information?  If anything it vindicates it, given they aren't under government controll.  I don't get your point.

Quote:
With TSA scandal going down and anyone who speaks against the body scanners being auto-labeled a "domestic extremist"


Please back this up.  A large portion of the public seem to be against them as do many media personalities.  How do you figure they're labled extremists?  Either way, what does that have to do with press freedom or freedom of expression?  Someone called me a poo poo head once- is this a stain on the nation's reputation for open discourse?


Quote:
- I would say this reflects a decline in freedom of speech.


Again, why?  You say people are labling others this.  How does this reflect a decline?  The very act of taking a position on a contraversial government action reflects engagement on the issue which seems to speak highly of the freedom to do so.  How are you construing this disputed fact to reach the opposite conclusion?

Quote:
Why is there a Freedom of Press day anyway? What exactly does it mean? It's sort of confusing... If we have such a free press I wouldn't think we'd need a special day to clear our minds.


Has nothing to do with what we need.  Its an advocacy PR thang like all the other similar events of this nature


Numbered by response;

1.  My point regarding the Fox news network is simple.  When a country's MAJOR news source imposes a political agenda based on their personal gain they have removed themselves as a non-bias source for news.  With typical Americans eating up their every word (ONLY because they portray themselves as a news source) as if it were truth (because we are lead to believe that the news cannot legally lie nor mislead), I feel that this strongly reflects a decline an individual's freedom of expression/speech/press.
If one can't be heard why bother to speak? This is the way our government wants it. Fox is allowed to say whatever they want but only because the government trusts that they will follow a mutual agenda.
Hence death threats, etc, against a man who spoke his mind. Julian Assange. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't recall ANYTHING within the limitations of freedom of speech/expression/press about publishing compromised "secret" information.

2.  You simply ASSUME that Fox news is not under government control. Can you provide ANY information that they are not? I would personally believe the cross endorsement of one another would exhibit some sort of control between the two.

3.  The American government supposedly said it... not me.  It is rumored that the comment was contained within a governmental memo.  Unfortunately it is ILLEGAL to copy such a memo... because i can say whatever the fuck i want right?

4.  Uhh... a list of people labeled as domestic extremists... you don't find that threatening?
I'm sure no one ever made a list for a reason, right? Obviously you're only getting your news from Fox if you haven't been following this.

5.  We also have an Independence day.  How do you think the brits feel about that?  Sounds like a "rub-it-in-your-face" day.
In all seriousness what is the point of this day?
You guys are ALL acting like we're going to bomb communist countries with newspapers or something...
Why celebrate a "Free Press Day" when the countries affected won't ever know it existed because their press couldn't tell them?


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Edited by anarchOi (12/08/10 08:45 PM)

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Re: U.S. to Host World Press Freedom Day in 2011 [Re: Konyap]
    #13603875 -

Quote:
If a bunch of US reporters are following wars, then they will probably answer yes to the above questions because they are in a war zone, not because of anything that the US does to endanger them.


Those questions would be applicable to the country those reporters were in... not their country of origin. An American journalist being targeted in Iraq reflects the freedom of press in Iraq, not in the US.

-------------------------------

Quote:
I'd have to agree the US seems like it should be quite a bit higher relative to the countries ranking above it.


Quote:
the US should rightly be closer to the top, or at the top, relative to those other countries in regards to first amendment issues or press freedom


Do either of you have a basis for this opinion? Are you familiar with the press freedom in those 19 countries ranked above the US? It sounds quite vainglorious when you make claims like that. I rarely read the political forum because of the air of superiority so frequently expressed by some of the American posters.

-------------------------------

Quote:
> I was under the impression that everyone realized that Fox selectively airs articles to suit their own agenda.

As do all the media outlets in America. They have freedom to report as they wish.


This has an impact on the press freedom ranking (according to the Reporters without Borders survey) under the self-censorship category. Biased media outlets selectively reporting to suit their social/political agendas means that their journalists don't have the freedom to report as they wish. For a journalist to have freedom and integrity they need impartiality.


--------------------
"Reality leaves a lot to the imagination" ~ John Lennon

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Re: U.S. to Host World Press Freedom Day in 2011 [Re: TimmiT]
    #13604229 -

TimmiT said:
Quote:
> I was under the impression that everyone realized that Fox selectively airs articles to suit their own agenda.

As do all the media outlets in America. They have freedom to report as they wish.


This has an impact on the press freedom ranking (according to the Reporters without Borders survey) under the self-censorship category. Biased media outlets selectively reporting to suit their social/political agendas means that their journalists don't have the freedom to report as they wish. For a journalist to have freedom and integrity they need impartiality.


:oldman:


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Re: U.S. to Host World Press Freedom Day in 2011 [Re: TimmiT]
    #13605279 -

SirNoseDvoidoFungi said:
Quote:
> I was under the impression that everyone realized that Fox selectively airs articles to suit their own agenda.

As do all the media outlets in America. They have freedom to report as they wish.


This has an impact on the press freedom ranking (according to the Reporters without Borders survey) under the self-censorship category. Biased media outlets selectively reporting to suit their social/political agendas means that their journalists don't have the freedom to report as they wish. For a journalist to have freedom and integrity they need impartiality.


If journalists in America were unable to choose who they work for, then I would agree with you.  However, journalists can work for anybody, or nobody and publish freelance, thus they are not restricted unless they choose to be.  Regardless, I doubt that you can find a single unbiased mainstream media outlet anywhere in the world.  Even the BBC, which prides itself on being unbiased, still shows bias.  (There have been several discussions on this topic, use the search if you care for specifics.)

Claiming that journalists that are free to work for any media outlet they want in a country that does not control the content that the media outlet produces are giving up freedom is like me claiming that I am a slave because I choose to work for a company, but don't like the hours.


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: U.S. to Host World Press Freedom Day in 2011 [Re: anarchOi]
    #13606103 -

anarchOi said:
Numbered by response;

1.  My point regarding the Fox news network is simple.  When a country's MAJOR news source imposes a political agenda based on their personal gain they have removed themselves as a non-bias source for news.  With typical Americans eating up their every word (ONLY because they portray themselves as a news source) as if it were truth (because we are lead to believe that the news cannot legally lie nor mislead), I feel that this strongly reflects a decline an individual's freedom of expression/speech/press.



Free expression reflects a decline in free expression?

You say this:

"When a country's MAJOR news source imposes a political agenda"

This is fallacious.  There is NO one major news source in the US.  For instance, we can look at the recent election night coverage ratings.

Conservative in opinion:
1.  Fox News  7M

Total 7M

Liberal in opinion:
2.  6.1 NBC
3.  6.0 CBS
4.  5.9 ABC
5.  2.4 CNN
6.  2.0 MSNBC

Total  22.4M

Then there is the unholy troika of top newspapers, all of which are liberal

1.  NY Times
2.  Washington Post
3.  LA Times


Name a conservative paper that comes close to their readership, even as much in decline as they are.

Magazines?  National Review; conservative.  Almost all the rest with any circulation; liberal.


Finally, the only industry where conservative views dominate is radio.  We don't have a major news source.  We have several of them, most of which are relentlessly liberal


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Re: U.S. to Host World Press Freedom Day in 2011 [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13608467 -

zappaisgod said:
Then there is the unholy troika of top newspapers, all of which are liberal

1.  NY Times
2.  Washington Post
3.  LA Times


Name a conservative paper that comes close to their readership, even as much in decline as they are.



NY Times: 951,063 daily
1,376,230 Sunday

Washington Post: 578,482 Daily
542,463 Saturday
797,679 Sunday

LA Times:600,449 Daily
1,019,388 Sunday

Wall Street Journal: 2,092,523

[Source: wikipedia, too lazy to cite the source they cited...]

WTF are you talking about? : P

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Re: U.S. to Host World Press Freedom Day in 2011 [Re: ChuangTzu]
    #13608681 -

> Wall Street Journal: 2,092,523

I don't know that I would compare the WSJ, a newspaper with a very narrow focus, to other newspapers that are published for the general public.


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: U.S. to Host World Press Freedom Day in 2011 [Re: Seuss]
    #13609045 -

The WSJ has been expanding their focus in the last year or so but they have historically been a trade publication and not a general readership newspaper.  That is good to see.  Not only that but I checked the wiki and they have gained readership while the NY Times and the others have all lost about 8%.  :cool:


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Re: U.S. to Host World Press Freedom Day in 2011 [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13609094 -

zappaisgod said:
The WSJ has been expanding their focus in the last year or so but they have historically been a trade publication and not a general readership newspaper.  That is good to see.  Not only that but I checked the wiki and they have gained readership while the NY Times and the others have all lost about 8%.  :cool:



...

Assuming I believe any of the non-cited "facts" you've posted thus far in this thread what you're saying proves that freedom of expression is in decline.


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Re: U.S. to Host World Press Freedom Day in 2011 [Re: anarchOi]
    #13609400 -

> Assuming I believe any of the non-cited "facts" you've posted thus far in this thread what you're saying proves that freedom of expression is in decline.

No, I think he is saying that dinosaurs are purple.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: U.S. to Host World Press Freedom Day in 2011 [Re: Seuss]
    #13609747 -

Seuss said:
Laugh all you like, but what DieCommie said is true.

#1 are Finland, Iceland, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, and Switzerland
#7 is Austria
#8 is New Zealand
#9 are Estonia and Ireland
#11 are Denmark, Japan, and Lithuania,
#14 are Belgium, Luxembourg, and Malta
#17 is Germany
#18 is Australia
#19 is the UK
#20 is the United States of America
(Canada is #21)
Source: Worldwide Freepress Index


I'm a Canadian and I am unsurprised that we rank so low in press freedom. Our press freedom is seriously bad. I am also unsurprised that the US is actually slightly ahead of us and that we are both behind Australia where something like 70% of the press is owned at least in part by Rupert Murdoch. 20th is definitely not high in an index of anything if you are a major developed country and it is certainly far from number 1. What I'm wondering is how this is scored. Hypothetically if this were scored by press freedom protection and free speech the US should score higher, but it is more likely that government seizure of free press assets and data has lowered it's score significantly. I would not be surprised to find that subsequent evaluations of press freedom from the current wikileaks reaction actually give the US a much lower score in this than even Canada.

And as TimmiT said, the issue of other national reporters in Iraq is not lowering the US score. Look at the questions especialy the ones about "cencorship and self-censorship" and if you want to see annother section where the US lost free media points look at the one titled "indirect threats, pressures and access to information" I think I can recall an event for every single question in this year.

Now that that is out of the way. The US shares many of the problems that lowered its score with even the nations ahead of it in that poll. I think that that poll did highlight a lot of the issues that need to be reconciled to fix broken press systems and government approaches to them throughout the world. 20 is very high compared to all the people on the list but it is hardly number 1. If anyone claims that the US scored lower than it should have:
Quote:
Reporters Without Borders is careful to note that the index only deals with press freedom, and does not measure the quality of journalism. Due to the nature of the survey's methodology based on individual perceptions, there are often wide contrasts in a country's ranking from year to year.


The quality of Journalism in the US is considered to be one of the worst and most entertainment driven in the developed world. I should say some quality indicators like deliberate self censorship may cover this there are other indicators like lack of sustained reporting on political issues because MJ dies or some kid allegedly gets caught in a weather balloon or something. Or just plain not covering an issue until it is basically leaked into the the US through the internet (this happens all the time).

20th though is not the reason why people think it's sick that the US is hosting world free press day. It's that they do it while overtly and systematically attacking wikileaks and applying diplomatic and intelligence pressure on Assanges case. It is filled with Orwellian irony that they should be declared the hosts of world press freedom day while attacking wikileaks.


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

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Re: U.S. to Host World Press Freedom Day in 2011 [Re: ScavengerType]
    #13609755 -

Quote:
I'm a Canadian and I am unsurprised that we rank so low in press freedom.


21 out of ~180 countries is low?  Thats almost the top 10%, seems good to me.

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Re: U.S. to Host World Press Freedom Day in 2011 [Re: DieCommie]
    #13609791 -

You don't think that is low? You think that given our history and development that 21 is not a bad score that we should be glad that we are above China, Venezuela and Pakistan?

Naa man I would expect more from our country than that. Hell we were whooped outright by New Zealand, and they won't even let people parody anything from their house of commons.


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

Edited by ScavengerType (12/09/10 09:41 PM)

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Re: U.S. to Host World Press Freedom Day in 2011 [Re: ScavengerType]
    #13609823 -

No, I dont think the top 105 is low.  Sure, we should always try to be better and we always want to be number 1.  But top 10% isnt bad.  I wish I was in the top 10% of something.

Would be interesting to know the variance too.  I assume the top nations are very close together and their difference are slight.

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