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Re: Individual Rights [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1348900 -

Quote:
People are NOT equal.


So then you disagree with the Declaration of Independence?


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: Individual Rights [Re: ]
    #1348901 -

I would include that in equal opportunity, but you're correct.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: Individual Rights [Re: silversoul7]
    #1348905 -

Quote:
Quote:
People are NOT equal.


So then you disagree with the Declaration of Independence?


People have equal worth but no two people are physically or intellectually equal.


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"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

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Re: Individual Rights [Re: silversoul7]
    #1348910 -

Of course I agree with it. All are created equal. However, those who choose to strive for more or who are more ambitious, deserve to be rewarded for their efforts. Those who do not, do not deserve an equal slice of the pie. The Declaration is about equal opportunity. Nowhere does it say we must lower standards to equalize all.

Why should two physically equally matched individuals, one a hard worker, one not, receive an equal slice?

To try comparing being born equal, with remaining equal as life progresses, is disingenuous at best.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: Individual Rights [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1348921 -

. All are created equal. However, those who choose to strive for more or who are more ambitious, deserve to be rewarded for their efforts.

Just to play devil's advocate, what about those that aren't born equal (ie the mentally handicapped) ?


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Re-Defeat Bush in '04

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Re: Individual Rights [Re: silversoul7]
    #1348925 -

D of I is referring to equality under the law as I mentioned earlier.

My IQ is 173 and I am 6' 3" tall. Are you my intellectual equal or my superior? Are you taller or shorter than me? Most people are one or the other. Equals in various attributes are rare to the point of being extreme as you approach a bell curve of statisical analysis.

Cheers,

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Re: Individual Rights [Re: Skikid16]
    #1348926 -

Play the devil's advocate all you want. If they can't produce as much, they don't get as much.

Equal opportunity, what's so hard to grasp?

No-one ever promised equal results.
EDIT: No-one with any brains or understanding of people ever promised equal results.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

Edited by luvdemshrooms (03/03/03 11:54 PM)

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Re: Individual Rights [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1348936 -

Quote:
Equal opportunity, what's so hard to grasp?




But its not equal opportunity in the case of a retard. 

That's like saying each day, your food source will be an indeterminent distance from your current location, one day it could be 6 blocks, the next it could be 100 miles,  all you have to do is get there with the mode of transportation you were given, you can't change that transportation but you can make modifications.

Well in this scenario, most people are given cars (people of functional intelligence), some people were given faster cars (smarter people) and some improve their cars (people who learn a lot), but.... there is a small minority that were given rollerskates (retarded). 

Now it is true that the rollerskaters can attain food when it is within close proximity (simple jobs like collecting trays in mall food courts, I always see retards in mall foodcourts. :grin:)  But on the days when the food is 100 miles (more difficult tasks)  do you think the rollerskaters should starve?  I mean, they weren't given the same opportunities as the car holders. 
 


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Re-Defeat Bush in '04

Edited by Skikid16 (03/04/03 12:07 AM)

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Re: Individual Rights [Re: Skikid16]
    #1348943 -

Wrongo champ. They have equal opportunity under the law. They just aren't up to the challenge through no fault of their own. However it's not my fault either. If I choose to give to them.... fine. To promise them an equal slice is wrong.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: Individual Rights [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1348951 -

What about the revised edition?


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Re-Defeat Bush in '04

Edited by Skikid16 (03/04/03 12:16 AM)

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Re: Individual Rights [Re: Skikid16]
    #1348955 -

Revised edition of what?


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: Individual Rights [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1348957 -

I edited the post for a different argument


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Re-Defeat Bush in '04

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Re: Individual Rights [Re: ]
    #1348959 -

I've always interpreted the phrase to mean equal in value , i.e. no one is more important than anyone else.

Anyway, I'm beginning to see why I don't quite classify as a Socialist. I don't believe everyone should get an equal slice of the pie, because hard work should be rewarded(but then again, if an employee is slacking off, the employer could just fire him/her). However, I do feel that everyone should at least get SOME slice of the proverbial pie. Basically, I believe there should be a sort of safety net(welfare, socialized medicine, public education, etc.) for those who have trouble getting by. I also support a graduated income tax so that the gap between rich and poor doesn't get too big(like it is in many third-world countries).


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: Individual Rights [Re: Skikid16]
    #1348961 -

Well despite the fact that after I had already answered the question, then you go back and completely rewrite it, the answer stands as is.

And the arguement didn't change, just the words you used.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: Individual Rights [Re: silversoul7]
    #1348964 -

Sorry to disagree. There should be no government run safety net, and no taxpayer monies used in any way far any type of privately run safety net.

And no income tax. A national sales tax is a far better method of financing constitutionally allowed programs. Nothing else should be taxpayer financed.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

Edited by luvdemshrooms (03/04/03 12:20 AM)

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Re: Individual Rights [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1348965 -

Quote:
Well despite the fact that after I had already answered the question, then you go back and completely rewrite it, the answer stands as is.




Sorry I changed it, I didn't do it intentionally.  Before you posted, I felt as though I needed to expand. 


So you think the people that were given rollerskates should starve?  Damn man, in your next life you're gonna have a nice, shiny pair of rollerskates.  :wink:


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Re-Defeat Bush in '04

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Re: Individual Rights [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1348969 -

Quote:
Sorry to disagree. There should be no government run safety net, and no taxpayer monies used in any way far any type of privately run safety net.

And no income tax. A national sales tax is a far better method of financing constitutionally allowed programs. Nothing else should be taxpayer financed.


This brings up another good question, why are conservatives so cold and heartless? I'll make a new thread for this discussion.


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"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

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Re: Individual Rights [Re: Skikid16]
    #1348970 -

Nowhere did I say anyone should starve. I said to promise an equal slice is wrong. The government has no business giving anyone cars or rollarskates.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: Individual Rights [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1348973 -

I'm not cold or heartless. I give away a good deal more than avarage.

I just don't think the government has any business doing so.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: Individual Rights [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1348976 -

The government didn't, sorry if I didn't clarify, life did. The vehicles was a metaphor for people's intelligence.


That's why I said you couldn't change the vehicles, you could only modify them.


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Re-Defeat Bush in '04

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