redgreenvines said:

I think your response hs been very considered and I know it is weird trying to understand this business of frame layering as the constant between all psychedelics unless you are looking at the way brain makes memory by letting the cells that are reverberantly stimulated become the unit of momentary memory.
reverberant stimulation is the required feedback for memory formation.
psychedelic manages using one method or another (chemically) to extend the reverberant period of each stimulus.

It is smart to bring Salvia into this analysis, especially since the difference in character between the lsd and mushroom is in the variance of degree of layering.

Why i think it is smart is because salvia (to level 3 light visual) goes through the whole sequence of 2-layers up to 8 or 10-layers in a matter of 90 seconds and then coasts back down to about 4 or 5 layers within 10 minutes hitting baseline the next day or so (afterglow).

Acid (for entertainment purposes ~1 tab more or less) will also go to the same place in about 120 minutes or so and stay there more or less for 5 hours coasting to baseline of 2 or 3 layers in 12 hours.

comparing the scale of effects on these timelines gives you a way to see how the biophysical part of psychedelic is a simple and dependable thing, but can be staged differently and can seem to be very different things.

why they are different is because of shockingly different timelines in which the consciousness goes from ordinary to very reverberant and elasticaly buoyant among a multitude of more slowly passing moments - and then back again.

during 5 minutes it is very hard to come to grips with anything, but during 5 hours you can really get involved with things.

the layering effect is also natural in dreams and emotional states. so when we are overcome with the suddenness of the salvia change we can greatly increase the chemically induced layering by reacting.

I think this happens on acid too but only a little bit, unless the dose was taken in more than one 10 minute period - i.e. redosing during come up (which makes it more mushroom-ish).

I think this happens (emotionally induced additional frame stacking)on mushroom a few times as additional psychedelic enters the blood from digestion, all the way until it is eliminated. This gives a slower ramp for a shorter ride with a kind of maintenance trickle during come down, except with tea in which case it hits more like acid except a bit shorter overall.

of course add to all of that the flavors
and the environments and the expectations and beliefs etc. etc.

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I think you are absolutly correct in your hypothosis... but still, I'd like to think that because of the difference in the "quality" if you will, of the cellular chemical memory dealie that you put so well, makes a huge difference on how one will adapt to the "trip" thus leading to different outcomes on how one percieves the effects of said psychedelics.

Sorry that I can't add any further details to this subject... you have a clear cut thesis on how psychedelics and your mind work... I however don't yet.

Entropymancer said:

I think redgreenvines is one smart dude.

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allisthesame said:

Entropymancer said:

I think redgreenvines is one smart dude.

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Oy vey... you are just reading what he said and judging it. Don't you have anything constructive to add?

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Nothing that he didn't already express better than I could.  Redgreenvines is like a voice of trancendental wisdom.

redgreenvines said:

this is very silly
thanks
I am beside myself of course
all of us are.

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Tomo said:

Ive never taken LSD but i do have an interesting question..

Ive only ever tripped on shrooms once inside, all the other times have been outside. when tripping on shrooms outside i get amazing bright colours along with great distortions on everything around me, connection with everything around me, i feel like i am part of every plant and tree near me and obviously, (even on low doses) my mind doesnt seem my own, my head is in a completely different place and its only after the trip has finished that i can try to make sence of everything i have learned.

Now when tripping inside on shrooms, almost completely opposite, i had some amazing visuals however my mind seemed to work in almost the same way it does normally, i had no connection with anything around me and there were basically no parts of the trip where i felt like i was reeli exploring my own mind, i just felt almost normal but with visual distortions. However as soon as i walked outside i got all the same feelings come back again and would have the biggest mindfuck ever...

i put this down to mushrooms being a much more natural substance, as in, you can pick them, eat them, and trip. because their natural the connection with nature is huge hwever the connection with anything man-made is very minor. Was just wondering if acid has an opposite effect, what sort of mind trip do you get inside compared to outside on acid???

anyone know what im talking about?

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