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On Buddhist Philosophy
    #11229884 -

Quote:
By realisation itself is meant that it is the realm of inner attainment and has nothing to do with words and discriminations; it leads one up to the realm of non-outflows and is the state of an inner experience; entirely devoid of philosophical speculations it shines out in its own inner light of attainment.

What is meant by the teaching concerning it? It is given in the instructional works and keeps one away from the dualistic notions of being and non-being, of oneness and otherness; first making use of skilful means and expedients, it induces all beings to have a perception of this teaching so that whoever is inclined towards it, may be instructed in it.

Realisation and teaching, self-attainment and instruction - those who have an insight into the difference will not be led away by philosophical authorities.

The Lankavatara Sutra


Does this make any sense to you? And if so, could you elaborate a little please.

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Re: On Buddhist Philosophy [Re: Ahimsa]
    #11229967 -

It is basically saying that realization is unquestionable truth. For something to be a realization, you must understand it in the first place. It's not that you don't question it, but it is so basic and common that no questions come to mind that need to be asked. No philosophizing needs to be done, it will only muddy the picture.

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Re: On Buddhist Philosophy [Re: Ahimsa]
    #11229974 -

Yep that's a doozy. No concrete nouns and lots of unspecified verbs. I'm not a Buddhist and nor have I studied it in depth.. but I'll have a crack at translating it.

Quote:
By realisation itself is meant that it is the realm of inner attainment and has nothing to do with words and discriminations; it leads one up to the realm of non-outflows and is the state of an inner experience; entirely devoid of philosophical speculations it shines out in its own inner light of attainment.


I think he's talking about a state of being, a state of mind, an inner "knowing" beyond words, proof, or argument.

For info on "the realm of non-outflows", this might shed some light. http://www.abuddhistlibrary.com/Buddhism/D%20-%20Chinese%20Mahayana%20Buddhism/Authors/Hsuan%20Hua/Instructional%20Talks/teach3-10.html

Quote:
What is meant by the teaching concerning it? It is given in the instructional works and keeps one away from the dualistic notions of being and non-being, of oneness and otherness; first making use of skilful means and expedients, it induces all beings to have a perception of this teaching so that whoever is inclined towards it, may be instructed in it.



That's pretty self explanatory isn't it? He's just talking about how the teaching is done, the means to the end.

Quote:
Realisation and teaching, self-attainment and instruction - those who have an insight into the difference will not be led away by philosophical authorities.


In other words, "Don't believe the hype!"


Well I had a crack...

What did you get out of it?


--------------------

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Re: On Buddhist Philosophy [Re: Ahimsa]
    #11229979 -

I could go on and on what it means. But I rather point out why it is for slaves. "It induces all beings to have a perception of this teaching so that whoever is inclined towards it, may be instructed in it".

Scary....... "inducing all beings" "to have a perception" "to be instructed".
This is why I disapprove of organized religion, no free thinking aloud.

It says ..keeping one away from duality and oneness, forget that shit.

yea you need us to be enlightened cant do it your self and we will keep that away from you.

Edited by CapHat (10/11/09 10:21 PM)

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Re: On Buddhist Philosophy [Re: CapHat]
    #11230009 -

You left out the important words of 'inclined to' and 'may be.' It is entirely a choice. It even ends with 'those who have an insight into the difference will not be led away by philosophical authorities,' which I take as a warning that authorities can be wrong.

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Re: On Buddhist Philosophy [Re: krypto2000]
    #11230033 -

Do you mean to say, that, once you get the meaning, you don't have to use any more concepts to explain it to yourself because it has become an understanding and common sense. And that every explanation only serves to achieve this understanding.

Well that's how i get it anyway.

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Re: On Buddhist Philosophy [Re: krypto2000]
    #11230040 -

Yes i did so to keep it short and to the point. Amazing :lighter:

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Re: On Buddhist Philosophy [Re: Ahimsa]
    #11230051 -

Ahimsa said:
Quote:
By realisation itself is meant that it is the realm of inner attainment and has nothing to do with words and discriminations; it leads one up to the realm of non-outflows and is the state of an inner experience; entirely devoid of philosophical speculations it shines out in its own inner light of attainment.

What is meant by the teaching concerning it? It is given in the instructional works and keeps one away from the dualistic notions of being and non-being, of oneness and otherness; first making use of skilful means and expedients, it induces all beings to have a perception of this teaching so that whoever is inclined towards it, may be instructed in it.

Realisation and teaching, self-attainment and instruction - those who have an insight into the difference will not be led away by philosophical authorities.

The Lankavatara Sutra


Does this make any sense to you? And if so, could you elaborate a little please.


Not inclined to but inclined towards meaning after they brain washed you and you have a perception of this teaching so that who ever is brain washed SHALL be instructed.(may means shall) Meaning it will happen if they have been taught to believe it

Edited by CapHat (10/11/09 10:31 PM)

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Re: On Buddhist Philosophy [Re: Mufungo]
    #11230099 -

As to the non-outflows. It appears to be saying that once there is understanding or inner knowing, then no more 'out-flowing' attempts to understanding are necessary.

And with realisation and teaching is simply meant the difference between instruction and understanding. Yes?

So far so good...

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Re: On Buddhist Philosophy [Re: CapHat]
    #11230112 -

Ok hold your horses. Why would a teaching of any sort prevent free thinking?

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Re: On Buddhist Philosophy [Re: Ahimsa]
    #11230133 -

Ahimsa said:
Do you mean to say, that, once you get the meaning, you don't have to use any more concepts to explain it to yourself because it has become an understanding and common sense. And that every explanation only serves to achieve this understanding.

Well that's how i get it anyway.


Pretty much. Take the number 4 for example, whenever you use the number 4 I doubt you ever question 'what is 4' or 'how can I explain 4 to someone who doesn't know what 4 is?' 4 is 4.

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Re: On Buddhist Philosophy [Re: Ahimsa]
    #11230140 -

Ahimsa said:
Ok hold your horses. Why would a teaching of any sort prevent free thinking?


Teaching doesn't. Training does. The two can often be mistaken for the other.

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Re: On Buddhist Philosophy [Re: krypto2000]
    #11230185 -

:idea: Mmmm.... it is a fact. No question.
OK so now all i need to do is find out what fact this teaching is about. :bouncey:

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Re: On Buddhist Philosophy [Re: Ahimsa]
    #11230211 -

Same reason why they all do, conformity. And remember who allows and makes what readings are legal. back then it was only one religion for a certain area. (power, money) They killed you for reading certain books before. You need religion to make laws back then and that was power so you need a book for all the little slaves to read and think it the only way to enlightenment and we can make laws using examples from the book and people already believe it so they will except the law no matter how absurd it may be cuz budda said so. Their induced and inclined towards it so we can make them do what ever we want.

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Re: On Buddhist Philosophy [Re: krypto2000]
    #11230223 -

Thank you for your warning. :nonono: Indeed, teaching vs. training is a big one!

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Re: On Buddhist Philosophy [Re: Ahimsa]
    #11230272 -

too obvious to say train, we will just call train teach. I taught my dog how to sit and stay, but that was not training him. For a Buddhist , what happens if you dont believe?
Any kind of a punishment there or an ultimatum? Teaching comes from my mistakes, not some one inducing me to have a perception accustomed towards ( what was the word they used oh yea) being instructed.

Edited by CapHat (10/11/09 10:56 PM)

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Re: On Buddhist Philosophy [Re: CapHat]
    #11230286 -

Yes. But what about the wisdom or philosophy contained in many of these writings? It would be stupid to abandon all these writings for fear of being controlled, and then to miss out on some good thinking... wouldn't it? I mean, are we still so blind today to be carried away by whatever whoever tells us, just because of authority or charisma? I don't think so. Or am i wrong and are there not that may free thinkers in the world? :sad:

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Re: On Buddhist Philosophy [Re: Ahimsa]
    #11230335 -

yea thats why people eat it up, sound good and poetic. Its Religion for the MASSES ie;slaves only talks about what you need to be doing or else. I can achieve enlightenment with out it, I dont except hand me down beliefs.

The great philosopher Socrates once said, "that all forms of influence or there for immoral"
So the one might rightly ask "why then is this religion trying to influence me now"?

Edited by CapHat (10/11/09 11:06 PM)

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Re: On Buddhist Philosophy [Re: CapHat]
    #11230375 -

You sound like a Buddha. :lol: Lol

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Re: On Buddhist Philosophy [Re: CapHat]
    #11230387 -

Iv got he answer to the subject.

Inducing one to have a perception accustomed towards being instructed

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