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Re: "americans distrust government"... [Re: Redstorm]
    #11062904 -

Meh...

http://usgovinfo.about.com/library/weekly/aadhsfunding.htm

It looked like DHS was fixin' to get involved in what is the rejected REAL ID act.

Yes, DHS costs a lot and is becoming more expensive.  They also harass American civilians under the pretense of operating in what they call "constitution free zones".


Fuck DHS.

What did you think about the pastor getting tazed by the goon squad?


--------------------
Ludwig von Mises Institute,Campaign for Liberty.,The Oath Keeper's

Edited by Mr.Al (09/15/09 09:21 AM)

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Re: "americans distrust government"... [Re: Mr.Al]
    #11062928 -

Quote:
What did you think about the pastor getting tazed by the goon squad?


I didn't hear about this, but I am not supportive of the use of force against others, unless in self-defense.

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Re: "americans distrust government"... [Re: Redstorm]
    #11062998 -

It was in that vid I posted a few posts earlier.


DHS operated WITHIN US BORDERS and fucks with U.S. citizens, sometimes to the point of life threatening violence (tazers can and have killed before) in what those unAmerican asshats deem "constitution free zones".

Perhaps if it gets any worse the Texans will simply have to get in their pickup trucks and go on a road trip...


--------------------
Ludwig von Mises Institute,Campaign for Liberty.,The Oath Keeper's

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Re: "americans distrust government"... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #11063592 -

Hey zap:

you said:

"Ron Paul is not "from" the Austrian School."


Why is he talking about Austrian economics and business cycle theory in MSNBC.

It only takes a couple clicks to see he is from the Austrian school.  He's been talking about ending the fed for DECADES:

This is from today:



--------------------
Ludwig von Mises Institute,Campaign for Liberty.,The Oath Keeper's

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Re: "americans distrust government"... [Re: Mr.Al]
    #11064342 -

When someone is described as being "from" the Austrian School I take that to mean he had something to do with it other than reading it and subscribing to it.  Like formulating it.  That he certainly did not do.  I am not "from" Milton Friedman academy or Ayn Rand academy or B.F. Skinner academy but I do subscribe to their beliefs generally.  That's why I made the point.

He can talk about ending the fed for the entire millennium.  Nobody Almost nobody cares.  He is an inconsequential gadfly.


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Re: "americans distrust government"... [Re: C.M. Mann]
    #11064622 -

C.M. Mann said:
There is no better health care than in the U.S., and no better Govt. than the U.S.. Avior


au revoir:thumbup:


--------------------


http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/10945064
Our secrets to free things

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Re: "americans distrust government"... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #11064780 -

H.R.1207 needs five or six cosponsors to be veto-proof.  How do you suppose it has this kind of support?  Similar legislation has only had a handful of cosponsors over many decades.  I don't know if Paul has come up with anything new for the Austrian school but he has done more than most in recent years promoting it's teachings.  He has written a lot of books that deal with economics and you see him all over the media these days.

Regardless of the fact that you say the end of the fed is not in sight, would you like to see the fed ended?  Why?


--------------------
Ludwig von Mises Institute,Campaign for Liberty.,The Oath Keeper's

Edited by Mr.Al (09/15/09 03:57 PM)

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Re: "americans distrust government"... [Re: Mr.Al]
    #11064809 -

Quote:
H.R.1207 needs five or six cosponsors to be veto-proof.  How do you suppose it has this kind of support?  Similar legislation has only had a handful of cosponsors over many decades.


I thought Ron Paul was supposed to be on the fringe. :confused: :wink:

It's good to see people finally waking up.


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

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Re: "americans distrust government"... [Re: zorbman]
    #11064826 -

zorbman said:
Quote:
H.R.1207 needs five or six cosponsors to be veto-proof.  How do you suppose it has this kind of support?  Similar legislation has only had a handful of cosponsors over many decades.


I thought Ron Paul was supposed to be on the fringe. :confused: :wink:

It's good to see people finally waking up.



Indeed!


--------------------
Ludwig von Mises Institute,Campaign for Liberty.,The Oath Keeper's

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Re: "americans distrust government"... [Re: Mr.Al]
    #11065148 -

Mr.Al said:
H.R.1207 needs five or six cosponsors to be veto-proof.


Huh?  What are you talking about?
Quote:
  How do you suppose it has this kind of support?


Because it just calls for making the fed accountable to the politicians it was supposed to be independent of.  Power grab.
Quote:
Similar legislation has only had a handful of cosponsors over many decades.


Similar but different?  Different in what way?  How did they fare in the vote or didn't they ever get out of committee?  Call me when this does.  As of right now all the sponsors for the bill that doesn't do much is real spiffy.  Also meaningless.  You never did come up with a Ron Paul bill that actually, you know, got passed.  We'll see.
Quote:
I don't know if Paul has come up with anything new for the Austrian school but he has done more than most in recent years promoting it's teachings.  He has written a lot of books that deal with economics and you see him all over the media these days.


I'm well aware that he has written quite a few things.
Quote:
Regardless of the fact that you say the end of the fed is not in sight, would you like to see the fed ended?  Why?


No.  I think it performs it's function well and it's absence would create a vacuum that will be filled with something worse.  Like a totally beholden central bank.  Like China and Russia.


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Re: "americans distrust government"... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #11065226 -

Have you been living under a rock?

H.R.1207 is the bill to audit the fed...


What exactly has the fed done well?

The power grab was in 1913 when a private banker cartel hijacked the U.S. dollar.


--------------------
Ludwig von Mises Institute,Campaign for Liberty.,The Oath Keeper's

Edited by Mr.Al (09/15/09 05:13 PM)

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Re: "americans distrust government"... [Re: Seuss]
    #11065254 -

obama is a fake with a evil plan to rule the world

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Re: "americans distrust government"... [Re: Mr.Al]
    #11065370 -

Mr.Al said:
Have you been living under a rock?

H.R.1207 is the bill to audit the fed...


Yes, I know.  What do you think that means, child?  Were you born yesterday?
Quote:
What exactly has the fed done well?

The power grab was in 1913 when a private banker cartel hijacked the U.S. dollar.


You mean when it was created by Congress and signed by the President into law as allowed by the Constitution?


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Re: "americans distrust government"... [Re: HaRo On KoRn]
    #11065515 -

HaRo On KoRn said:
obama is a fake with a evil plan to rule the world


I hear he eats babies and wants to make the old into dog food.


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

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Re: "americans distrust government"... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #11065590 -

http://www.phnet.fi/public/mamaa1/jefferson.htm


The central bank is an institution of the most deadly hostility existing against the Principles and form of our Constitution. I am an Enemy to all banks discounting bills or notes for anything but Coin. If the American People allow private banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the People of all their Property until their Children will wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered.

-Thomas Jefferson

Just because it was "made law" doesn't mean it wasn't a hijacking.

Interesting how you have nothing to say about what the fed has done well zap...

From Article 1 Section 8 of the U.S. Constitution:

http://www.usconstitution.net/xconst_A1Sec8.html

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;





Now, can you tell me why counterfeiting is wrong zap?

Can you explain to me how it is morally correct for a central bank to create new money, which has the same deleterious effect on the economy as any other counterfeiter?

The only difference is that the federal reserve has the extremely questionable "legal" monopoly on the new money creation.



--------------------
Ludwig von Mises Institute,Campaign for Liberty.,The Oath Keeper's

Edited by Mr.Al (09/15/09 06:37 PM)

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Re: "americans distrust government"... [Re: Mr.Al]
    #11066172 -

Quote:
The department of homeland security certainly constitutes growth of government.


And again, you seem not to have the faintest grasp of the core tenets of Keynesian economic theory. Creating the Air Force out of thin air way back when was also "growth of government". So was the creation of the CIA and the Department of Education. But none were created in order to fulfill Keynesian  dicta. Not all government growth is undertaken in order to manipulate markets.

I suggest you give this up. You are clearly in waaaaay over your head here. Leave this tangent to wither and die and deal with some of the other issues of Americans' distrust of government.




Phred


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Re: "americans distrust government"... [Re: Phred]
    #11067008 -

Keynesian economics has never worked, and never will.

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Re: "americans distrust government"... [Re: Mr.Al]
    #11068879 -

Mr.Al said:
http://www.phnet.fi/public/mamaa1/jefferson.htm


The central bank is an institution of the most deadly hostility existing against the Principles and form of our Constitution. I am an Enemy to all banks discounting bills or notes for anything but Coin. If the American People allow private banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the People of all their Property until their Children will wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered.

-Thomas Jefferson

Just because it was "made law" doesn't mean it wasn't a hijacking.


No, a hijacking is an illegal act.
Quote:
Interesting how you have nothing to say about what the fed has done well zap...


False.  I have said previously that I believe the Fed modulates economic and currency swings.  Only an abysmal fool would think that bubbles are a product of a central bank.  Especially since they pre-date them and have in the past been much more radical.  Let's not lose sight of the fact that regarding the housing bubble it is a result of other government policies which encouraged lending to bums.  I would also further point out that the long entrenched tax deductibility of mortgage loans is also inflationary to house prices.  Unfortunately there is no way out of that shithole without evaporating even more paper wealth.
Quote:
From Article 1 Section 8 of the U.S. Constitution:

http://www.usconstitution.net/xconst_A1Sec8.html

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;


The Constitution specifically charges Congress with regulating the value of the currency.  Can you not read?  Do you know the meaning of the word "counterfeit"?
Quote:
Now, can you tell me why counterfeiting is wrong zap?


Because it is fraud.
Quote:
Can you explain to me how it is morally correct for a central bank to create new money, which has the same deleterious effect on the economy as any other counterfeiter?


Morally?  What nonsense.  They are specifically charged with the job.  Counterfeiters are not charged with the job.  What deleterious effect?  You blather endlessly this jejune notion that the dollar has lost 96% of its value and yet refuse to answer my previous question about mansions Ferraris and lobster/caviar/filet mignon.  Do you think that everybody would be wealthy or do you think that there would just be fewer dollars?  Everything would cost less but there would be less dollars to buy stuff with.  Or everything would cost more and there will just be more dollars to buy stuff with.  Six of one.......
Quote:
The only difference is that the federal reserve has the extremely questionable "legal" monopoly on the new money creation.




There is nothing questionable about it's legality and you have made zero case for why it is bad other than a, I must say, sophomoric nostalgia for the lost meaning of a penny.  Apocalyptic nonsense I've heard my entire life.  It's true, I've heard so much Chicken Little bullshit in my 50+ years that I no longer credit any of it.  YThe fed has been around for decades.  I don't see a problem.  Except pennies suck.  OHNOEEEEEES. 

Almost all of this shit comes from people who realize you can make big money scaring even just a small segment of the population.  Huge money.  Ask Paul Ehrlich.  This kind of stuff is the "Pet Rock" of policy debates.


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Re: "americans distrust government"... [Re: Mr.Al]
    #11070585 -

Welcome to Romper Room. :grin:


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

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Re: "americans distrust government"... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #11070947 -

Spare me the pompous windbaggery that is a thinly veiled attempt to disguise your lack of economic understanding!

We can take this apart piece by piece since you enjoy dodging questions so much.

First of all, it is fractional reserve banking which is the main impetus of the boom & bust economic cycle.

THAT IS WHY SAID CYCLES EXISTED BEFORE THE CENTRAL BANKS!

Given that depositors do not like it when banks loan out multiple times what they are holding (because that means the bank could fold and people lose their money!) the market response to this is a run on the banks.

The fractional reserve banks created malinvestment in the economy due to the "easy money" they provided.  The loose lending floods the economy with extra cash (the M2 becomes M1, but it is MULTIPLIED in the process).  The extra cash flying around certainly makes it easier for people to buy, invest, hire people, expand businesses...  Things look real swell for awhile...

UNTIL... 

Prices adjust to the influx of new money.  People find that their cash doesn't buy as much as it did before.  Companies start laying people off.

The economy is now entering the bust part of the cycle where businesses that were rash and foolish SHOULD go bankrupt! 

The only way for the economy to correct itself is for the malinvestment to get cleared out of the economy so wealth producers can begin to ascertain what constitutes AN HONESTLY GOOD INVESTMENT and begin serious long term business planning.

Now, recall that influx of newly created money (new M1)  that was multiplied into existence from the M2...  The floor of prices throughout the economy have now risen.  Most of your hard working average Joe and Jane will now find that:



THEIR COST OF LIVING HAS INCREASED BUT THEIR WAGES HAVE NOT

I REPEAT HAVE NOT

INCREASED PROPORTIONALLY!


DAMN IT ZAP, you may be old but you can still learn.  You have enough intelligence to understand this pay attention please  :fishsmack:

As the money supply is increased through the fractional reserve banking system (as well as ever growing government spending that forks loads of cash to very large corporations- Id Est: no bid Halliburton contracts) the wealthy and well connected ultra rich corporations hold a larger percentage of the money supply pie.  The American people hold a smaller percentage of the money supply pie and THUS FIND THAT SHIT IS MORE FUCKING EXPENSIVE THAN IT USED TO BE.








Now examining your kindergarten response to why counterfeiting is wrong.....

Here is a more comprehensive look:


The counterfeiter receives the FULL BUYING POWER of the medium of exchange that is presently used in the economy.  As the COUNTERFEIT MONEY circulates through the economy the honest folk who work for their fucking money (you're one of those) finds that as prices adjust to the COUNTERFEIT money things get more expensive.


Thus the COUNTERFEITER gets shit for free at the immoral expense of the hard work of everyone else.



It is just as immoral for a government, central banks, and fractional reserve banks to work together and steal the value of everyday people's hard work. 

All of the above is a basic condensed version of Austrian Business Cycle Theory that was originally put forth by Friedrich A. Hayek (got a nobel prize for it).




I know you are an older guy.  I feel kind of bad pointing out your lack of understanding because older people deserve respect and often lack (even just a little bit) some of the cognitive functions they used to.


I HIGHLY RECOMMEND you look into and consider investing in some nootropics.  I have used piracetam, choline (you need choline with piracetam), and pyroglutamic acid lately.  Consider it an insurance policy for your mind.

The other nootropics I've tried can be too strong, more expensive, and very "speedy", so I can't recommend them unless "that's your thing".


--------------------
Ludwig von Mises Institute,Campaign for Liberty.,The Oath Keeper's

Edited by Mr.Al (09/16/09 03:24 PM)

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