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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Psychedelic Experience
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Re: Shrooms and the Presence of God [Re: heirofgrace]
    #10789830 -

heirofgrace said:
My point is, if you don't believe in God, or if you don't know God, you're missing the purpose of the pyschedelic experience, and you're getting off rummaging through the petty details of insights, breathing walls, morphing hands, shimmering light, and brilliant colors, or even increasing intimacy between yourself and othersThose things are hollow shells if they are not clothing and adorning the personal and holy God.



I'm an atheist and the psychedelic experience has shown me, in a nutshell, how awesome life is and how we often we take everything for granted.  I guess those are just shallow realizations though, right?  Get over yourself, tripping is a biological process...it's what you make of it.  To say that there's 1 "right" psychedelic experience when people are so vastly different from each other is arrogant.

heirofgrace said:
If there is a God, it is the God of the Bible. Can anyone seriously bring up a God other than Him? We know all other gods are pagan ideas of the uncivilized, mythologies, etc. But there is something different going on with the Bible and the God portrayed there. He is actually and arguably a real-life God, proven no more than in the life of Jesus Christ, and I would add the apostles as well.



Wow man, I guess you really lucked out. Out of the THOUSANDS of religions/cults/gods worshiped throughout human history...you just happened to have picked the 1 that's correct! (And by that I mean "born into" without a choice, if you were raised Christian).

The god of the bible is an insane, violent, contradicting, misogynistic, mass-murdering, intolerant, bastard. Seriously, check this out if you want to talk about how awesome the bible is or want to talk science:
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/index.htm

Then again if you want to talk about how the bible shouldn't be taken literally, then at what point should we not follow it's teachings?  Since we're picking and choosing, exactly where do you draw the line?

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for developing philosophical/moral wisdom.  But the relatively few teachings in the bible that are good can easily be found in many other religions, people will always word the same ideas in a million different ways.  Basically, I just think you're wasting a lot of time actually worshiping something that probably isn't there.



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Edited by Liquid Time (08/03/09 03:05 AM)

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Re: Shrooms and the Presence of God [Re: heirofgrace]
    #10789857 -

the idea of original sin makes baby jesus cry


where could god be, but in EVERYTHING?

light, dark, good, bad, god, the devil, peace, war, happiness, suffering, this religion, that one, no religion, etc


there are a lot of christian ideas that I like, many that I think might just be misinterpreted, and many that just make me :facepalm: and think the whole thing is a farce

pushing your beliefs on other people (and the psychedelic experience itself) is ego, and not "christ consciousness" at all


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MY HAIR IS A BIRD 
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Re: Shrooms and the Presence of God [Re: heirofgrace]
    #10790345 -

heirofgrace said:
MonkeyHeaven,

What is a "spiritual atheist"? In other words, could you explain that part of who you are, please?


Sure, I'd be happy to explain.  I don't believe in god, but I enjoy practicing the various rituals associated with different religions and learning about them. 

I visit buddhist temples and shinto shrines at least once a month, and do all of the accompanying bowing, clapping, incense burning etc.  I think it's really cool that in an animistic religion, such as shinto, rocks and trees are regarded as sacred deities.  I really enjoy participating in the seasonal rituals, but I have no faith. 

I also really agree with a lot of the principles of Christianity, minus the faith part.  I found it strange that the church I attended thrice weekly as a child insisted that the most important part of being a Christian was to believe.  I could pretty much do whatever I  wanted, and as long as I professed my faith, repented, and showed up a few times a week, I could be secure in the knowlege that I'd spend eternity in heaven while my Jewish friends would burn in hell, even if they behaved well.  It seemed unfair, and I didn't believe in god anyway, so why lie and say I did? 

I also enjoy chanting the 'Hari Krishna' chant, and used to do this along with the 'Om' thing when my children were babies.  I wanted to instill a sense of peace & love in them.

I think that religion, spirituality, and yes, even faith can have a positive effect on people and commmunities. 

It seems like it's the faith bit has the potential to radicalize and cause unnecessary divides between groups of people.  It has and is currently being used in many countries to rationalize war, hate, and greed. 

Good question!

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Re: Shrooms and the Presence of God [Re: monkeyheaven]
    #10794692 -

so you are saying you're an atheist because you don't believe in God, but you're spiritual because you participate in rituals?

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Re: Shrooms and the Presence of God [Re: the bizzle]
    #10794852 -

the bizzle said:
where could god be, but in EVERYTHING?

light, dark, good, bad, god, the devil, peace, war, happiness, suffering, this religion, that one, no religion, etc


Isaiah 45:7 (King James Version):
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: Shrooms and the Presence of God [Re: deCypher]
    #10794892 -

and what is that verse saying, deCypher? do you understand it? In context, of course.

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Re: Shrooms and the Presence of God [Re: heirofgrace]
    #10794973 -

I would presume the passage assigns God the responsibility for such things as natural disaster and other events that cause suffering as opposed to those evil actions that are the responsibility of free-willed humans?


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: Shrooms and the Presence of God [Re: deCypher]
    #10795443 -

deCypher said:
I would presume the passage assigns God the responsibility for such things as natural disaster and other events that cause suffering as opposed to those evil actions that are the responsibility of free-willed humans?


LoL

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Re: Shrooms and the Presence of God [Re: heirofgrace]
    #10795783 -

heirofgrace said:
so you are saying you're an atheist because you don't believe in God, but you're spiritual because you participate in rituals?


:wow: :nonono:




When something is so retarded a full and proper facepalm is not even necessary


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MY HAIR IS A BIRD 
YOUR ARGUMENT IS INVALID

Edited by the bizzle (08/04/09 01:00 AM)

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Re: Shrooms and the Presence of God [Re: Shad0w]
    #10795797 -

deCypher said:
the bizzle said:
where could god be, but in EVERYTHING?

light, dark, good, bad, god, the devil, peace, war, happiness, suffering, this religion, that one, no religion, etc


Isaiah 45:7 (King James Version):
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.


heirofgrace said:
and what is that verse saying, deCypher? do you understand it? In context, of course.


Shad0w said:
deCypher said:
I would presume the passage assigns God the responsibility for such things as natural disaster and other events that cause suffering as opposed to those evil actions that are the responsibility of free-willed humans?


LoL




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MY HAIR IS A BIRD 
YOUR ARGUMENT IS INVALID

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Re: Shrooms and the Presence of God [Re: the bizzle]
    #10795800 -



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MY HAIR IS A BIRD 
YOUR ARGUMENT IS INVALID

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Re: Shrooms and the Presence of God [Re: the bizzle]
    #10795817 -







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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: Shrooms and the Presence of God [Re: deCypher]
    #10795852 -



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MY HAIR IS A BIRD 
YOUR ARGUMENT IS INVALID

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Re: Shrooms and the Presence of God [Re: heirofgrace]
    #10796370 -

heirofgrace said:
so you are saying you're an atheist because you don't believe in God, but you're spiritual because you participate in rituals?


You're correct on the athiest point, but oversimplified why I identify with the spiritual label. 

I said I enjoy participating in the rituals, agree with certain religious principles, & incorporated some happy hindu chanting into my parenting. 

I also touched on my reverence for different religions, and how this effects my world view.

I pray, chant, have my kids blessed by priests at our family shrine, and burn incense at the grave of dead family at our temple. 

I find it fun, invigorating, and sometimes emotional on such a level that can only be described as spiritual. 

I sure as hell don't believe in god, heaven, hell, karma, or spirits, though! 

Does that clarify a little?  I appreciate your interest, most people don't really care.

Also, to tie this back into your original post, athiests can indeed see all sorts of things with a sense of awe & reverence while using psychedelics.  There is no reason to think that they're missing the point or anything, you've just got to open your mind a little bit to allow their way of seeing things to be valid.  If you disdainfully invalidate the experiences of others, clinging to this negativity can't be healthy.  Do you believe in vibes?

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Re: Shrooms and the Presence of God [Re: monkeyheaven]
    #10796426 -

You know when I first saw this thread, about God, I never once expected it to be centered on Christianity.




you might could almost say I am an atheist who believes in god, trusts in god, and lives for god.




**************************************************************************************************
"You can't sing this song when you've forsaken all you love" --think about that for a minute


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Re: Shrooms and the Presence of God [Re: monkeyheaven]
    #10796889 -

monkeyheaven said:
Also, to tie this back into your original post, atheists can indeed see all sorts of things with a sense of awe & reverence while using psychedelics.  There is no reason to think that they're missing the point or anything, you've just got to open your mind a little bit to allow their way of seeing things to be valid.  If you disdainfully invalidate the experiences of others, clinging to this negativity can't be healthy.  Do you believe in vibes?


Indeed, you must be an individual with a very open mind, to be an atheist and do all those deeds filled with religious and/or metaphysical overtones.

I'm guessing by "vibes" you mean what I would call "spirit." I believe we all have spirits, and they flex or move within the sphere of our emotions and knowledge. We are always having a spirit about us, revealing our spirit, whether by thought, word, posture, gesture, deed, or countenance. Others feel it. Even through written word, like on this forum. Some people have said I've "pushed" my beliefs onto them. It's not that I have actually told people "you must believe ______", but because I speak with certainty (i.e. Christ came to heal the sick) about my conclusions and opinions (and I am human, I could be wrong) there gives the sense that I am forceful or authoritative (I prefer authoritative). It is my spirit (knowledge and emotion playing their parts) that gives off this vibe at times.

Communities and people groups, and even rituals, are formed, followed, and felt by their specific spirit. I might define "spirit" favored by the shroomery's "spirit" as a person's "state of consciousness", which is sensed immediately and intuitively by all (more or less, depending on how keen the individual is).

Is that what you meant by "vibes"? I know you wouldn't refer to it as "spirit" as I do, since you don't believe in spirits.


monkeyheaven said:
I sure as hell don't believe in god, heaven, hell, karma, or spirits, though! 



Why in the hell not?

Edited by heirofgrace (08/04/09 08:14 AM)

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Re: Shrooms and the Presence of God *DELETED* [Re: heirofgrace]
    #10796953 -

Post deleted by the bizzle

Reason for deletion: doublepost



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Edited by the bizzle (08/04/09 08:34 AM)

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Re: Shrooms and the Presence of God [Re: deCypher]
    #10796970 -

deCypher said:
I would presume the passage assigns God the responsibility for such things as natural disaster and other events that cause suffering as opposed to those evil actions that are the responsibility of free-willed humans?


I agree absolutely 100%. But God does more than tell the lightning bolt where it should go or how a car accident might transpire.

Lamentations 3:2
He has driven me away and made me walk in darkness rather than light.

God actually causes people who sin against the light (that is, suppress the truth in unrighteousness, and become disobedient by violating the direct commands of God) to walk in darkness. These violations of God's Law would be called "sins," respectively. One way God does this (makes people walk in darkness), I think, is specifically by withholding wisdom, so the sinner may encounter consequences of the error of his ways. Sinning against the light is a most dangerous thing, because the result is a darkened mind. And the more the mind is darkened, the more one is plunged into further mishaps, poor choices, and evil thinking. But with God, well.. He is gracious to those who wander and stumble in darkness. After reading the following verse, might you juxtapose it with the verses under my name? which you can look up here at biblegateway.com with total ease.

Isaiah 9:2
The people walking in darkness have seen a great light; on those living in the land of the shadow of death a light has dawned.

Edited by heirofgrace (08/04/09 04:46 PM)

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Re: Shrooms and the Presence of God [Re: the bizzle]
    #10796997 -

I just wanted to bump this to the front incase he missed it

the reason we say you push your beliefs on people is because you talk so much about the bible (even where there is no reason to), as if it is the ultimate and exclusive source of truth. Maybe not exactly that, but you don't realize the air of ego that comes with those kind of preachy statements.


you should read a book written by the dalai-lama, not only does he say that you shouldn't ask anybody to change their religion, but he talks about how Buddha would change the style of his teachings depending on the people he was talking to. He knew if he came off as preachy, no enlightenment would truly be shared.

Everybody is so different...you could say "THIS IS THE SECRET TO EVERYTHING", and hardly anybody would get anything out of it, because people truly only listen to or learn from things that they are ready for. There is no single ladder of knowledge either; what I mean is that everybody is coming from a completely different perspective. A heavy metal or a rap song could help one person find god and not the other, and vice versa, not because either of them are any greater or lesser, but simply because they find meaning in different ways, and are open to different things at different times.

There are some key gems of musicians and texts that take me higher than anything, and I really wish I could share that with the world, but I know that they just aren't going to get what I get out of it. It doesn't mean the meaning and magic isn't there,
it just means that experience is relative.


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Re: Shrooms and the Presence of God [Re: the bizzle]
    #10797006 -

the bizzle said:
the reason we say you push your beliefs on people is because you talk so much about the bible (even where there is no reason to), as if it is the ultimate and exclusive source of truth. Maybe not exactly that, but you don't realize the air of ego that comes with those kind of preachy statements.


you should read a book written by the dalai-lama, not only does he say that you shouldn't ask anybody to change their religion, but he talks about how Buddha would change the style of his teachings depending on the people he was talking to. He knew if he came off as preachy, no enlightenment would truly be shared.

Everybody is so different...you could say "THIS IS THE SECRET TO EVERYTHING", and hardly anybody would get anything out of it, because people truly only listen to or learn from things that they are ready for. There is no single ladder of knowledge either; what I mean is that everybody is coming from a completely different perspective. A heavy metal or a rap song could help one person find god and not the other, and vice versa, not because either of them are any greater or lesser, but simply because they find meaning in different ways, and are open to different things at different times.

There are some key gems of musicians and texts that take me higher than anything, and I really wish I could share that with the world, but I know that they just aren't going to get what I get out of it. It doesn't mean the meaning and magic isn't there, it just means that experience is relative.


I understand. And I also empathize. And I readily admit that sometimes I have said things here that weren't in the right spirit or disposition. I can't change it, once it's been done, but I do regret it.

But above all, I regret coming on here, acting spiritual, like I'm the convergence of two of the greatest things in the universe, Christ, and Psilocybin mushrooms. Sounds like a joke, but I'm totally serious. And for that reason, the total absurdity of combining the two, and the love I have for my wife and children, the hatred I have for my sin, because it has caused me to walk in darkness, I will have nothing more to do with "magic" mushrooms. They are the lie in my hand, an idol of my heart, an abomination to the Lord.

Isaiah 44:20
He feeds on ashes; a deceived heart has turned him aside and he cannot deliver himself, nor say, "Is there not a lie in my right hand?"

All I need is Christ.

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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Psychedelic Experience
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