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Invisiblefjbk47985
Has Been AbsentFor Far Too Long
Registered: 04/05/02
Posts: 758
Maybe shrooms are actually bad?
    #784472 - 07/29/02 03:00 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

I was just commin down from a trip and then thought of this (ironic eh?). Well you know how plant evolution allows them to grow methods of defending themselfs from attackers, like thorns, traps etc... Well the stuff in mushrooms is probably it's way of defending itself from animals and what we're actually doing is poisoning ourselfs over and over again and the only reason we're not dying is because we're a lot bigger then chipmunks or whatever. I mean think about it...

Cannabis doesn't have a defensive mechanism because it is made to be eaten (read from National Geographic on Gorillas) but with mushies it's differant.

So i guess what i'm trying to say is that it might actually be better to stick to weed and that all this jazz about respecting the mushies doesn't matter because it was designed to hurt us.

What do you think, and i know i'm gonna get flamed for bashing shrooms but can i get one or two real posts b4 that starts


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OfflineChubbSubb
Zen Lunatic

Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 612
Loc: Here.
Last seen: 20 years, 7 months
Re: Maybe shrooms are actually bad? [Re: fjbk47985]
    #784499 - 07/29/02 03:17 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

So i guess what i'm trying to say is that it might actually be better to stick to weed and that all this jazz about respecting the mushies doesn't matter because it was designed to hurt us.

I can see your point, but do not agree with you. Mushies have NEVER hurt me really, maybe some stomach discomfort but thats it. Psilly is not a poison either.
Peace, Trev


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Those who know do not speak.
Those who speak do not know.


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OfflinePoopman
Man of Poop
Registered: 04/04/02
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Loc: Los Angeles
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Re: Maybe shrooms are actually bad? [Re: fjbk47985]
    #784502 - 07/29/02 03:17 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

Before this discussion goes any further, I think someone should define what the active chemicals in psilocybe mushrooms acutally are. Or at least get a quote from a web site.


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Invisiblefjbk47985
Has Been AbsentFor Far Too Long
Registered: 04/05/02
Posts: 758
Re: Maybe shrooms are actually bad? [Re: Poopman]
    #784512 - 07/29/02 03:22 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

both good points..
i'm gonna take a look around erowid and some other places and see what that turns up. I don't think there's much else that's actve besides the psylocybin.


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InvisibleDreaMaTrix
Shaman I am

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Posts: 3,125
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Re: Maybe shrooms are actually bad? [Re: fjbk47985]
    #784518 - 07/29/02 03:25 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

>Well the stuff in mushrooms is probably it's way of defending itself from animals and what we're actually doing is poisoning ourselfs over and over again and the only reason we're not dying is because we're a lot bigger then chipmunks or whatever. I mean think about it...


Nobody is really sure why the mushrooms produce psilocybin (the active ingredient).
The deadly dose of psilocybin containing mushrooms, is more than ones body weight, I don't think any animal consumes that much.

>So i guess what i'm trying to say is that it might actually be better to stick to weed and that all this jazz about respecting the mushies doesn't matter because it was designed to hurt us.

Stick to whatever works for you. If you think mushrooms are poisoning you, leave 'em alone.
My experiences coming down from a mushroom tryp is that these are one of the most interesting/beautiful/enigmatic lifeforms on this planet. I have never thought of them in terms of a poison, quite opposite actually, my brain/body likes them


Good luck



--------------------





"We are the one's we have been waiting for" - Hopi saying


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Offlinegreenlight
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Registered: 04/21/02
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Re: Maybe shrooms are actually bad? [Re: fjbk47985]
    #784620 - 07/29/02 04:13 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

Um, if an animal that's 10% our size eats some mushrooms, they probably won't like it.

(1) The effects would (theoretically) be much stronger for small animals...
(2) They wouldn't be expecting it. (We KNOW what we're eating)...
(3) It wouldn't be good for them. Imagine trying to hunt or escape a hunter while you're tripping your ass off...Imagine seeing a natural predator that's not actually there, or *not* seeing a predator that *is* there.

There's a very good chance that the psychoactive effects are a defense mechanism. It seems like it would work.


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Disclaimer: Everything I've typed is of a fictional nature.


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OfflineDaTHChold
Stranger
Registered: 07/28/02
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Re: Maybe shrooms are actually bad? [Re: greenlight]
    #784708 - 07/29/02 04:48 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

no ones broguht up the point of how mushrooms have dated back... a long time, enough time for evolution to take place, and people back then have done mushrooms, or so ive heard...

also this would be the same as saying a vegie such as... letuce, green pepper.. etc will eventually evolve to poison us too....

all in the end i think the God that created the earth put certain goodies for us to experience... such as cannibis and shrooms...

also you have to think of other drugs like acid... drugs that do hurt us

mush is bad for our bodies for the few days that their in our system but after that i dont think their even detectable


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Offlinedickdeadly
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Re: Maybe shrooms are actually bad? [Re: DaTHChold]
    #784745 - 07/29/02 05:08 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

well, spicy foods such as jalapenos are the pepper's defense mechanism, but people like it. so maybe he's got a point, ive heard mushrooms being called poisonous before and someone told me "yeah, it's poison running through your body" so maybe it's just a "poison" we like, like jalapenos


--------------------

Character is how you act when you think no one is watching


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OfflineChubbSubb
Zen Lunatic

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Re: Maybe shrooms are actually bad? [Re: dickdeadly]
    #784761 - 07/29/02 05:13 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

Poison - 1 a : a substance that through its chemical action usually kills, injures, or impairs an organism b (1) : something destructive or harmful (2) : an object of aversion or abhorrence
2 : a substance that inhibits the activity of another substance or the course of a reaction or process

I really do not think mushies are harmful....


--------------------
Those who know do not speak.
Those who speak do not know.


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OfflineEvilGir
Im the on coming storm

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Re: Maybe shrooms are actually bad? [Re: ChubbSubb]
    #784836 - 07/29/02 05:42 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

Ok then if Magick mushrooms are bad then why are somespecies of mushrooms poisioness and can kill you.

Also the active chemicle in magic mushrooms are too simular to some of our own brain chemistry in thath they lock in to our own brain receptor sites(seratonein).
Where as a poision will effect the vital organs and not be too specific.
The chemicle psilocybin is also only two steps away from dmt which is only oraly active with a MAOI.


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Fighting the man the best way I can.


Edited by jezu (07/29/02 06:05 PM)


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Offlinefunwithgus
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Re: Maybe shrooms are actually bad? [Re: fjbk47985]
    #785213 - 07/29/02 08:17 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

Maybe I misunderstood you but "cannabis doesn't have a defense mechanism it was made to be eaten" is not reasonable at all. Have you ever eaten a 1/4 oz of weed or more. When I ate 1/4 oz I was fucked up for around 12 hours. It was more incapacitating and lasted longer than a couple gram shroom trip! Practically anything can be considered a poison if done to excess. Drink a gallon of water as fast as you can and what happens? You puke. Swallow some warm water with a couple grams of salt disolved in it and guess what happens? You throw up. Eat a couple tablespoons of mustard in warm water and you'll also vomit. It really is not a matter of what substance it is so much as what quantity and how quickly you ingest it.


--------------------
Say, can I have some of your purple berries?
Yes, I've been eating them, for six or seven weeks now, haven't got sick once.


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Anonymous

Re: Maybe shrooms are actually bad? [Re: fjbk47985]
    #785224 - 07/29/02 08:25 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

Maybe it's not that shrooms are poisonous, maybe the hallucinations are enough to keep away predators in term of freaking them out. I know I wouldn't want to be tripping balls when an eagle is after me.


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Offlinefunwithgus
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Re: Maybe shrooms are actually bad? [Re: Anonymous]
    #785266 - 07/29/02 08:58 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

That might be true for mammals and birds. There are a lot more reptiles, insects, slugs, fungi, and bacteria. Do they "trip"? Do they even have serotonin (sp.)?


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Say, can I have some of your purple berries?
Yes, I've been eating them, for six or seven weeks now, haven't got sick once.


Edited by funwithgus (07/29/02 09:00 PM)


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Offlinecantankerous

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Re: Maybe shrooms are actually bad? [Re: fjbk47985]
    #785524 - 07/30/02 03:14 AM (21 years, 6 months ago)

okay the facts...

cannabis is theorized to have a defense mechanism-the resin, not against heat as popular myth but against bugs, again this is the most reasonable theory but not enough evidence to be considered fact.

psilocybin and psilocyin may be a poison as much as sugar is a poison. the LD50 for these chemicals in humans is more than one's body weight. what it does to other animals is irrelevant ( dogs die from chocolate). these chemicals mimic the brains own chemicals to a certain degree and kind of "tickle" your brain. the FDA lists the toxicity of these chemicals on the same magnitude as asprin.

there is much more to write but i am tired... enjoy.


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InvisibleFd3000
I'll eat YOU!

Registered: 05/14/02
Posts: 1,356
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Re: Maybe shrooms are actually bad? [Re: cantankerous]
    #785644 - 07/30/02 05:21 AM (21 years, 6 months ago)

"dogs die from chocolate"

Were you making that up or did you hear that somewhere? I feel my dog chocolate all the time and he doesnt die.....

Perhaps the active chemicals are a defence mechanism. Well think about it an animal eats the mushroom once, tripps out and (obviously) hates it so they will never, ever eat it again. That means the mushroom survives.

As for humans, it does no harm to us. Even if it is a defence mechanism it doesnt hurt/scare us so its not bad.

Things are what you think they are.....
Fd


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___________________________________________________________________
Fd3000 is really a brown dancing monster. He uses the info he gets from his crazy dreams to help those in need. Too bad he doesn't really exist...

"I could walk up to the president and blow smoke in his stupid monkey face and all he could do is stand there grooving on it" - Homer Simpson


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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
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Re: Maybe shrooms are actually bad? *DELETED* [Re: fjbk47985]
    #785774 - 07/30/02 06:55 AM (21 years, 6 months ago)

Post deleted by CyberChump


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Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:


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Offlinecantankerous

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Re: Maybe shrooms are actually bad? [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #785896 - 07/30/02 08:00 AM (21 years, 6 months ago)

where do you get this stuff from???

yes, chocolate is poisonous to most dogs( I did not make that up) . MANY MANY plants are meant to be eaten, meaning the fruits of the plants. this disperses seeds for propagation of the species. these are simple questions that can be answered in a basic botany book. read and enjoy.


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InvisibleRebelSteve33
Amateur Mycologist
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Loc: Arizona
Re: Maybe shrooms are actually bad? [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #786091 - 07/30/02 09:48 AM (21 years, 6 months ago)

What are you talking about no plant was meant to be eaten??? Dude, plants have actually evolved TO be eaten. That is a way that many of them reproduce. They've developed seed-containing fruits which certain animals eat. The seeds are not digested in the animal's stomach and are passed with the animal's feces. This method ensures seed dispersal and survival of that plant species. Certain seeds are actually unable to grow until after they have eaten and passed through an animals digestive system! I believe some mushroom spores work in this same way.


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Namaste.


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Invisibledoozer
off the deep end
Registered: 05/14/01
Posts: 93
Re: Maybe shrooms are actually bad? [Re: fjbk47985]
    #786218 - 07/30/02 11:00 AM (21 years, 6 months ago)

Cool thread. lots of good input from everybody.
I personaly don't care if shrooms are a poison, although I see your point. Its not entirely unreasonable to think like that especialy when coming down from a trip. But as far as I see it, it provides pleasure and actually enhances my life. Pleasure and enhancement don't exactly fall in my poison definition. I choose to see them in a "they're meant to be eaten" kinda attitude.
Yes, lots of plants, fruits and grasses are meant to be eaten. Its just the way of the world. But some one was talking about shroom spores passing thru the digestive tract. I have no idea if spores are destoyed dy digestion, but what a cool tek that would be:
step1: eat some fresh shrooms and experience
step2: wait a day and a half
step3: shit in a sterile tupperware container
step4: wait 3 weeks
step5: fan and mist and give a little light
step6: harvest


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Offlineravingbanana
Every Girl'sSexual Desire

Registered: 07/25/02
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Re: Maybe shrooms are actually bad? [Re: doozer]
    #786227 - 07/30/02 11:04 AM (21 years, 6 months ago)

I think that god pissed on the shrooms and god's piss makes us hallucinate.


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If Bin Laden eats worms.. Would he be equal to nutritional value of worm castings?
If you could have sex with a person's voice.. Your voice would be the one I'd pick to rape.
Don't worry.. I have a seven inch penis.


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Anonymous

Re: Maybe shrooms are actually bad? [Re: fjbk47985]
    #786230 - 07/30/02 11:05 AM (21 years, 6 months ago)

Mushrooms are mushrooms.. Seems pretty simple to me.


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Offlineravingbanana
Every Girl'sSexual Desire

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Re: Maybe shrooms are actually bad? [Re: ]
    #786234 - 07/30/02 11:07 AM (21 years, 6 months ago)

But what if the mushroom you ate really wasn't a mushroom.


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If Bin Laden eats worms.. Would he be equal to nutritional value of worm castings?
If you could have sex with a person's voice.. Your voice would be the one I'd pick to rape.
Don't worry.. I have a seven inch penis.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Maybe shrooms are actually bad? [Re: fjbk47985]
    #786271 - 07/30/02 11:26 AM (21 years, 6 months ago)

Well you had a good idea about mushrooms using psilocybin as a defense mechanism, but no psilocybin and the mushrooms that contain it are not poisonous. Personally I don't think mushrooms evolved to produce psilocybin as a poison or self-defence mechanism. If you look at just how many plants and animals are able to naturally produce some form of tryptamines, it might make sense to assume that tryptamines are a natural constituent of nearly ALL life. Every life form on the planet contains various amino acids and other chemicals, because those chemicals are a natural product (and part of) of DNA. Maybe tryptamines are somewhat the same: a natural and essential product of life.


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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InvisibleRevelation

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Re: Maybe shrooms are actually bad? [Re: fjbk47985]
    #786440 - 07/30/02 01:03 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

Psilocybin would make for a poor defence mechanism. Reason being that it takes so long for the effects to manifest. A squirrel is not going to make the connection between the fungus he nibbled 20 minutes ago and the freaky spirals pin wheeling across his field of vision...


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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
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Re: Maybe shrooms are actually bad? [Re: cantankerous]
    #786450 - 07/30/02 01:07 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

this disperses seeds for propagation of the species. these are simple questions that can be answered in a basic botany book. read and enjoy.

I had never heard of seeds being spread by animals eating them. I looked it up and it turns out they do! Well I'll be! I didn't think it was good to get eaten.

I withdraw my dumb post . I was drunk I swear!


--------------------
Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:


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Invisiblefjbk47985
Has Been AbsentFor Far Too Long
Registered: 04/05/02
Posts: 758
Re: Maybe shrooms are actually bad? [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #786819 - 07/30/02 04:48 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

lots of good input from everyone and definitly some good things to consider..

all in all...this hasn't made me stop trippin..in fact a half q should be headin my way any minute... and since i havn't tripped in like 2 months this should blow me away.

hey can one of you tell me how to keep shrooms fresh for an extended periode of time?


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Invisiblezeta
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Re: Maybe shrooms are actually bad? [Re: fjbk47985]
    #787027 - 07/30/02 06:42 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

Back to the dog + chocolate issue...

"All dogs like chocolate, but chocolate is dangerous to dogs and fatal to cats. While not toxic to humans chocolate contains a caffeine-like alkaloid called theobromine. The amount of theobromine present in commercial human foods can be very harmful to the dog. Unsweetened dark chocolate contains even higher levels of theobromine and is more toxic.

Depending on the size and weight of your dog a mere 4-oz of milk chocolate is enough to kill your dog within 2 hours. If you know your dog has ingested chocolate you should watch for signs of chocolate toxicity. These include increased breathing rate, vomiting, muscle spasms and perhaps seizures. Contact your veterinarian and or local Poison Control Center immediately."

So it's probably best if you don't give chocolate to your dog any more.


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Offlinecantankerous

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Re: Maybe shrooms are actually bad? [Re: zeta]
    #787552 - 07/31/02 03:17 AM (21 years, 5 months ago)

yeah zeta thats what i meant!


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Maybe shrooms are actually bad? [Re: doozer]
    #787712 - 07/31/02 05:47 AM (21 years, 5 months ago)

My $ 0.02:

Suppose you were to empty out a bucket of cold water over your cat. (theoretical: I'm a catlover myself) The poor animal would freak and flee. The next time she saw you approaching with a bucket, she'll make a run for it. That's "Aversive Stimulus Conditioning" for you. If somebody would slap you in your face everytime sooner or later you'd might start to dislike the dude.

Most animals completely freak when they eat Shrooms. The vast majority of unsuspecting people would too. That we like Shrooms is because we anticipate the proverbial shit will hit the fan whenever we dose up. Suppose you never had shroomed and somebody slipped you a tasty 1/4 Shroom sandwich. It would likely be a hellish nightmare. Shrooms aren't physically toxic to us, but it can be a tremendous Aversive Stimulus if used wrongly. Capsicums don't kill too, but nobody sane of average sensitivity would gobble up a haba?ero pepper & get away with it. I think Psilocin, Psilocybin and perhaps Baeocystin and Norbaeocystin too are like the "Hot" in capsicum (Capsaicin, btw.) in that it doesn't kill but makes one f#ck of a deterrant. WE like 'em, but that's a conditioned response, just like with eating hotstuff.

When survival is everything, you'd tend to stay away from Shrooms. If your sense of adventure, Spirituality or just plainly getting high & having a monster of a good time outweighs your need for survival skills, you'd might be Shroom material.
Oh yes: you might like Shrooming in the forest or hey, the mall, so I've read in the reports-section. But how many would like 1/4 of shrooms behind the wheel at 50 miles an hour in a blizzard? Just as the cat remembers the bucket & grin, any mammal would link the Shroom they ate with the chaos thereafter.

I've tripped over 67 times, but would prefer getting zapped with a stungun over 1/4 of good strong Shrooms. I'm really into insight, but not at warp speed...
In my view Shrooms are basically an aversive stimulus that one may adapt to, but like to testify to the Divinity of the Mushroom nontheless...

Would bugs trip? I've read they put a drop of LSD-laced water on a spider or something along those lines. The webs they wove were more ambitious then their regular ones. On caffe?ne the symmetry amounted to dick. I don't know if those spiders tripped, but their tiny little brains were altered, no doubt about that.
Anybody got more feedback?


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here


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Offlineperplexed
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Re: Maybe shrooms are actually bad? [Re: Asante]
    #787906 - 07/31/02 07:57 AM (21 years, 5 months ago)

If psilocybin is a poison then so is serotonin......OH my god, i think im ODing, somone give me some shrooms!


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OfflineShroomyMcPot
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Re: Maybe shrooms are actually bad? [Re: cantankerous]
    #787935 - 07/31/02 08:16 AM (21 years, 5 months ago)

my dog eats all kinds of chocolate and she is perfectly fine, maybe a little fat.
That would be funny if my dog o'ded on chocolate. I mean not funny funny, but the idea is funny.


Edited by ShroomyMcPot (07/31/02 08:19 AM)


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Offlinegrowin
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Re: Maybe shrooms are actually bad? [Re: trendal]
    #788110 - 07/31/02 09:47 AM (21 years, 5 months ago)

it is a product of life. it also keeps it alive.

the fact that we caltivate them thus they wont die as long as humanity is here can also be looked in a evolunatiry point of view.

alot of plants thrive because of humanity using them. cannabis, shrooms, a million vegtabels fruits grain and mushrooms, and some just because they look good.

mushrooms, because of the 'posin' they produce they can hitchhike on humanity that takes good care of them. giving them all they need to thrive.

there are also a certain strain of ants that grows a certain mushroom underground inside its tunnels.
what does that mean ?!

a growin original


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InvisibleDreaMaTrix
Shaman I am

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Re: Maybe shrooms are actually bad? [Re: growin]
    #788400 - 07/31/02 11:41 AM (21 years, 5 months ago)

In reply to:

it is a product of life. it also keeps it alive.





Eh? 'It also keeps it alive', what does this mean, can you explain please?

Good luck




--------------------





"We are the one's we have been waiting for" - Hopi saying


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Maybe shrooms are actually bad? [Re: perplexed]
    #789674 - 08/01/02 02:38 AM (21 years, 5 months ago)

Er.. Didn't mean a poison in the usual sense.

But serotonin IS a poison, alot more toxic than Psilocybin, paradoxically.
You could easily swallow a gram of it and be OK... I THINK (don't do it!) but injecting it to bypass most of the MonoAmine Oxidase will result in a grueling death just as an OD of Bufotenine will. But indeed: a good way to counter too high amounts of serotonin in the brain would be to whip out the ziplock with shrooms!
It might come in handy with SSRI ODs, but don't quote me on this irresponsible remark & I don't think the FDA would like this particular antidote...



--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here


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OfflineLOBO
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Re: Maybe shrooms are actually bad? [Re: fjbk47985]
    #789721 - 08/01/02 03:43 AM (21 years, 5 months ago)

Perhaps the shrooms are just trying to select just one type of animal (homo sapiens) so they can keep propagating, more and more people are growing them, thus making them spread more and more.
Instead of seeing it as a poison see it as a fruit, why do so many fruits taste good, so the can be eaten and thus the seeds gets propagated.
Symbiotic relations are very fascinating.
Food for thought.


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Offlinegrowin
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Re: Maybe shrooms are actually bad? [Re: DreaMaTrix]
    #789926 - 08/01/02 05:49 AM (21 years, 5 months ago)

i ment that the psylocybin/cin is what we like in shrooms, thus what keeps us growing them thus keeping it alive and fat...

as said above.

a growin original


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Offlineimjustagirl
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Re: Maybe shrooms are actually bad? [Re: ShroomyMcPot]
    #791203 - 08/01/02 04:56 PM (21 years, 5 months ago)

I read in a post somewhere on this site a situation similar to the animals eating fruit then passing the seeds that grow into new trees. When cows ingest grass near growing shrooms they injest some spores which actually start to colonize on the nutrition in their stomach then eventually grow into mushrooms on their poop. Kind of cool! Makes me want to buy a cow instead of colonizing jars

On a side note PLEASE do NOT FEED your animals chocolate!! What was stated above is true, it can be very toxic. Do an internet search and educate yourself before endangering your pets health anymore. It's your responsibility as a pet owner to take care of your fuzzy friends. Just because they haven't died yet is no reason to continue feeding them people food. Buy some doggy treats instead!


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I'm just collecting info for a novel... Everything I say is fictional.

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Invisibledilatedcreature
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Re: Maybe shrooms are actually bad? [Re: LOBO]
    #791316 - 08/01/02 05:58 PM (21 years, 5 months ago)

I like that idea developing a symbiotic relationship and when we eat them they experience us as we experience them.......


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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: Maybe shrooms are actually bad? [Re: fjbk47985]
    #791393 - 08/01/02 06:52 PM (21 years, 5 months ago)

Well acording to mjshroomers sight the sheep in Scotland enjoy eating mushrooms.
http://mjshroomer.yage.net/news14.htm

Anyway you have to remember that animals will not experiance the same "trip" as humans do. They do not possess the self conscience and ego that is a big part of our experiance. I'm sure they get some visual/auditory disturbances. Anyway those damn sheep in Scotland seem to enjoy shroomin!


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Offlinefunwithgus
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Re: Maybe shrooms are actually bad? [Re: imjustagirl]
    #791638 - 08/01/02 09:28 PM (21 years, 5 months ago)

It you want to make your dog or cat happy give them some steak! My dog almost took my finger off when I fed her some! I'm not sure what other animals have serotonin receptors other than mammals and maybe birds. There is a big difference between warm and cold blooded animals.
Is intelligence an evolutionary advantage? I mean you don't see other animals building nuclear weapons or polluting themselves to death. Mushrooms are not bad if you don't think they are.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Maybe shrooms are actually bad? [Re: Asante]
    #792614 - 08/02/02 11:45 AM (21 years, 5 months ago)

Serotonin is NOT a poison. It's a necessity for human survival.

If you (for some dumb reason) injected a lot of pure serotonin you would probably end up with serotonin syndrome, but that's not because serotonin is a poison.


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Maybe shrooms are actually bad? [Re: trendal]
    #793559 - 08/02/02 11:57 PM (21 years, 5 months ago)

"Everything is Poison, and nothing without Poison, only the dosage makes, if something works as a Poison or not."

I was merely pointing out that Serotonin is more toxic than Psilocybin. In the brain, you'll get serotonin syndrome, in the vein you'll likely get bloodclotting problems which may lead to death, since Serotonin is involved there, too. No refs tho, just read it somewhere.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Maybe shrooms are actually bad? [Re: Asante]
    #794242 - 08/03/02 11:22 AM (21 years, 5 months ago)

I think I get your point: everything is a "poison" if used to extremes. Water will kill you if you drink too much of it. But is water a poison? I wouldn't say it is.

Serotonin, by the same definintion, isn't a poison. But too much serotonin WILL kill you, just like anything else. Psilocybin...I wouldn't consider it a poison at all. Tylenol will kill you at far smaller dosages than psilocybin will, as an example.


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Maybe shrooms are actually bad? [Re: trendal]
    #795029 - 08/04/02 02:26 AM (21 years, 5 months ago)

I think we think along the same lines, yet use other definitions, Trendal.

Let's agree the shroom doesn't produce Psiloc(yb)in to kill or maim, or it would be a really shitty toxin, having such a high lethal dose.

I think it's a deterrent, that shrooms containing the Psilo stuff are eaten less often than mushrooms without anything in them. It started as a co?ncidence and got preserved and enhanced by evolutionary benefit. Speculative, tho!




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OfflinePaddyCuinne
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Re: Maybe shrooms are actually bad? [Re: fjbk47985]
    #10169667 - 04/15/09 06:34 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

They were originally poisonous but humans evolved to use them in the way we do today.

Lokk up bill hicks on youtube he explains it (lol) better


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OfflineZigmat
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Re: Maybe shrooms are actually bad? [Re: PaddyCuinne]
    #10170139 - 04/15/09 09:26 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Holy bump! 6 years old thread huh?

Tho i must say it was a fairly interesting discussion and i enjoyed reading it :smile:


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OfflineMr. Kite
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Re: Maybe shrooms are actually bad? [Re: ravingbanana]
    #10170159 - 04/15/09 09:30 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

In essence, it's no different than smoking weed. When it all comes down to it, you use a product, and it makes you intoxicated. If mushrooms are bad because they make you feel good, then it's wrong to eat apples because they have a positive effect on your taste buds.

I know it's an old thread that got bumped... but I wanted to get my 2 cents in!


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Edited by Mr. Kite (04/15/09 09:31 AM)


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OfflineLSDreamer
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Re: Maybe shrooms are actually bad? [Re: Mr. Kite]
    #10170174 - 04/15/09 09:32 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Why? Why do people bump 6 year old threads? STOP IT! :kingcrankey:


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OfflineWornTraveler
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Re: Maybe shrooms are actually bad? [Re: LSDreamer]
    #10170198 - 04/15/09 09:37 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

I dunno, it was a good thread, worth the read (and therefore the bump) in my opinion.


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OfflineMr. Kite
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Re: Maybe shrooms are actually bad? [Re: Mr. Kite]
    #10170208 - 04/15/09 09:38 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Yeah, on forums people always flip out about bumping old threads.

It can be a little irritating, but it's not really THAT big of a deal.


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"It doesn't really matter if I'm wrong/ I'm right. Where I belong I'm right."


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OfflineRocker232
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Re: Maybe shrooms are actually bad? [Re: perplexed]
    #10170223 - 04/15/09 09:42 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

I don't know, I ate too many mushrooms in too short a time and I feel as though my head is lost to me at times. I abused though, which is important to consider.


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OfflineTryptamineFlood8
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Re: Maybe shrooms are actually bad? [Re: funwithgus]
    #10170328 - 04/15/09 10:06 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

psilocybin mushrooms are emotion.. Cromagnon/neanderthal man or either our ape ancestors long long ago came across them and ingested them and obv weren't expecting anything and are hit with intense introspective/some-what philosophical(not at all in todays standards) non lingual cognition and feelings of divinity, trance, wholeness and love.

Jump years ahead to us today. WE strive to continue to knowingly Facilitate our evolution
:P
mushrooms are far from bad,, well certain ones


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OfflineMr. Kite
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Re: Maybe shrooms are actually bad? [Re: TryptamineFlood8]
    #10170336 - 04/15/09 10:07 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Wow, I'm GLAD this got revived. That's a wonderful little nugget of knowledge.


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OfflineCMACD
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Re: Maybe shrooms are actually bad? [Re: Fd3000]
    #11531972 - 11/26/09 12:35 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Fd3000 said:
"dogs die from chocolate"

Were you making that up or did you hear that somewhere? I feel my dog chocolate all the time and he doesnt die.....


Fd 




page or so late... but I don't think anyone replied to this. Hopefully you googled "dog chocolate" after reading that it could be harmful. Chocolate contains theobromine, a chemical that you can slightly "feel" in you if you eat enough dark chocolate. Has physiological effects similar to caffeine with a few distinct differences. Caffeine actually digests partially into theobromine in your body, btw. Anyways, dogs don't have the enzymes to digest theobromine, it will kill them. Yeah, feeding it Reeses peanut butter cups or bars from the corner store probably won't do anything (but I still wouldn't recommend it). It's mainly the actual dark dark stuff with a high cocoa butter content/ baker's chocolate. Same thing goes for cats & human beings on MAOIs. It's just not as well known about cats cause they don't taste sweetness & generally don't desire chocolate much.


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InvisiblePsilocypher
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Re: Maybe shrooms are actually bad? [Re: CMACD]
    #11532055 - 11/26/09 12:53 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

I find it hard to believe that something as detailed and beautiful as the effects of Psilocyn could be poisonous. It's almost like nature has designed a computer program that you install on your brain. There are too many coincidences for it to be an accident. Like most things, there are good mushrooms and evil mushrooms.

But yes, the difference between poison and medicine is the dose.


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Offlinechidgos
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Re: Maybe shrooms are actually bad? [Re: Psilocypher]
    #11532143 - 11/26/09 01:17 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Well from what i have heard shrooms do not do any permanent physical damage therefore rendering them to be not a poison. Yeah they can make you puke but as said previously so can many other things that are not poisonous.
I smoke weed and that does more damage to my body than shrooms do so i dont really mind them and wouldn't really class them as a poison.
I suppose opinion has to also be taken into account but i do not think that shrooms are chemically poisonous.

Oh and by the way does anybody know if psilocybin and psilocin are actually toxins?


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OfflineLSDreamer
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Re: Maybe shrooms are actually bad? [Re: chidgos]
    #11532151 - 11/26/09 01:18 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

^Weed does less damage than mushrooms seeing as cannabinoids have neuroprotective and anti-carcinogenic properties. Also, define "toxin".


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Offlinechidgos
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Re: Maybe shrooms are actually bad? [Re: LSDreamer]
    #11532216 - 11/26/09 01:31 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

yeah i see what you mean about cannabis but i didn't mean as a poison, i meant it's still gonna do damage to your lungs even if it's not poisonous.
And by toxin i mean a chemical that does damage even if only temporarily.


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OfflineLSDreamer
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Re: Maybe shrooms are actually bad? [Re: chidgos]
    #11532250 - 11/26/09 01:36 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Psilocybin and psilocin are not considered toxic. Yeah, inhaling smoke isn't the best for your lungs, but the worst it's really going to do (from cannabis) is gumming up the works a bit. Y'know, bronchitis, gunk, etc. nothing really serious that you get from smoking, say, tobacco. Also, check out the article I posted in the news forum for continued good news on the health benefits of cannabis :smile:

But yeah, the original idea of the post, that psilocybin might be a defense mechanism, is a bit flawed in that it assumes that plants only develop defense mechanisms. In fact, plants can (seemingly) also develop methods to encourage its propagation. Look at mushrooms, weed, and poppies. They are widely cultivated by humans for their chemical properties, all of which are essentially non-toxic. Nature is truly beautiful sometimes. Amazing what natural selection can produce.


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OfflineOutThisLife
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Re: Maybe shrooms are actually bad? [Re: LSDreamer]
    #11532264 - 11/26/09 01:39 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Why is it so hard to think that they're here for other reasons rather than just to be there? Lol.


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OfflineLSDreamer
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Re: Maybe shrooms are actually bad? [Re: OutThisLife]
    #11532276 - 11/26/09 01:41 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

As with any organism, they exist to reproduce as effectively as they can manage. They evolved a novel way of ensuring their survival.


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OfflineOutThisLife
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Re: Maybe shrooms are actually bad? [Re: LSDreamer]
    #11532285 - 11/26/09 01:43 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

At the basis.


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OfflineHemlock

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Re: Maybe shrooms are actually bad? [Re: OutThisLife]
    #11532361 - 11/26/09 01:59 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Perhaps psiloc(yb)in containing mushrooms evolved to provide a pleasant (or at least damn interesting) experience as a way of dispersing their spores over great distances. For instance, some species of yak have been known to graze themselves on these mushrooms for a few days before moving on to other spots to find more food, all the while propagating the mushrooms in their wake. Nature is great.


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