heirofgrace said:

If anyone experiences or interprets the experience less than the presence of God, I do not see that happening for any other reason than that

1) they aren't paying attention to the work and nature of Psilocybin (it's design and purpose, you could say) but are busy having fun with friends, or limiting their state of emotions by attaching themselves to their favorite music, etc., or

2) they haven't widened their grasp of the essence of life, glory and power, through observation and experience, enough to understand what is taking place during the psychedelic experience, and what it is intending to do.

Psilocybin means to burden you with the eternal weight of glory.

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heirofgrace said:

Well in hopes of reviving this thread, cuz I want people to gush out what they feel is going on in their mystical experiences with mushrooms

I believe that if people are paying attention to the experience, being still, quiet, and listening during the physical transformation that's taking place, turning off the music and tripping alone, and willingly endure the terror and fear, they will face the glory and power of God in His grace, in varying measures, radiating through the immediate experience of the miracle of existence. If anyone experiences or interprets the experience less than the presence of God, I do not see that happening for any other reason than that

1) they aren't paying attention to the work and nature of Psilocybin (it's design and purpose, you could say) but are busy having fun with friends, or limiting their state of emotions by attaching themselves to their favorite music, etc., or

2) they haven't widened their grasp of the essence of life, glory and power, through observation and experience, enough to understand what is taking place during the psychedelic experience, and what it is intending to do.

Psilocybin means to burden you with the eternal weight of glory. If you don't experience God, than you have yet to stand at the edge of the Real Grand Canyon, the Real Niagra Falls, the Real Great Pyramid, and feel true awe. There is nothing greater or more blessed than to be in the presence of the only one and true living God.

If anyone has issues with God, it's because they know that the only arguably true God, is the God of the Bible, and He judges sin. Not fun when we're all sinners. But isn't it ironic that the only believable gods are those of the Bible, whether Christian, or Catholic, or Muslim, or Mormon.

My point is, if you don't believe in God, or if you don't know God, you're missing the purpose of the pyschedelic experience, and you're getting off rummaging through the petty details of insights, breathing walls, morphing hands, shimmering light, and brilliant colors, or even increasing intimacy between yourself and others. Those things are hollow shells if they are not clothing and adorning the personal and holy God.

I don't mean anything personally, I have made many friends who were atheists, but take what you can get from it -- my 2 cents.

"From our fallen perspective, we usually do not see that God has one condition that He initially demands of us. It is not to believe, to repent, to be conscious of sin, or even to know that Christ died; the only requirement God has of us is that we approach Him with an honest heart (Psalm 51:17)" -Watchman Nee

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monkeyheaven said:

heirofgrace said:

Psilocybin means to burden you with the eternal weight of glory.

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To clarify, do you think that the psychedelic experience is an entity with an agenda?

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rollanotherbowl said:

Get a grip, dude. You sound more like a member of a cult than the intelligent, thoughtful speaker you want to present yourself as. Not everyone believes the same things as you..... in fact, MANY people do not...

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Oh I've heard that before. But do you not know, the realm of ideas is in this place? Let's try discussing some really deep, for lack of a better word.. shit. Otherwise most of you guys are gonna bore my ass to death. I want to hear some opinions other than mine all the time. I wonder if most of you don't even think. But I'm keeping record of those who are thinking. Even if I don't agree with them, I am becoming fond of them.

BTW, I smoked ganja last night. Its been years. always makes me childish.. and i've already tripped twice on my sandals today. is it possible I became stupified over night?

Quote:

heirofgrace said:I wonder if most of you don't even think. But I'm keeping record of those who are thinking. Even if I don't agree with them, I am becoming fond of them.

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Quote:

heirofgrace said:BTW, I smoked ganja last night. Its been years. always makes me childish.. and i've already tripped twice on my sandals today. is it possible I became stupified over night?

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otherwhitemeat said:

heirofgrace said:I wonder if most of you don't even think. But I'm keeping record of those who are thinking. Even if I don't agree with them, I am becoming fond of them.

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You better watch out
You better not pry
Better not doubt
I'm telling you why
Heir of Grace is coming to town

He's making a list,
His bruises well iced;
Gonna find out
Who's pals with The Christ.
Heir of Grace is coming to town

He knows when you are thinking
He knows when you are baked
He knows that you've been shunning the Light
So bow down for Yahweh's sake!

O! You better watch out!
You better not pry.
Better not doubt,
I'm telling you why.
Heir of Grace is coming to town
Heir of Grace hath come to P-town

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LOL - so heirofgrace is the Santa Claus of the psychedelic shroomery, is that what you're saying?

Maybe "keeping record" came out wrong. I'm not picking out those who are of "the Christ" as you say, but those who actually have the brain and the balls to speak honestly about the subject, as you have.... but that's real funny dude  how long it take you to put that out?

Quote:

otherwhitemeat said:
To your question, I don't ascribe personal qualities such as intentionality to psilocybin. I think psilocybin can throw our neurochemistry and related higher processes into a pattern resembling endogenous religious or mystical experience, the specific character of which has more to do with personal experience and culture than with the wishes of a diety. So, Christians trip about Christ, Druids trip about trees and rocks, Taoists about the Tao, theoretical physicists about equations and parallel universes and whatnot, and so on. I think many broadly educated people can trip about all of these a little bit without too much dissonance, without one face of god getting pouty and shitting on the other faces, etc.

While tripping, I acknowledge intense feelings of awe, love, of being in touch with the ultimate, etc. I feel that I am in a holy place, and I conduct myself with humility and gratitude in that realm. Sometimes it feels intensely personal, as when a sense of humor manifests; other times it feels like pure undifferentiated energy, a flow. I bow to both. I do not agree that all honest mindful submissive tripping leads to an exclusive enthrallment with the god of the bible, especially not in so cliquey a form as permits casual distinction of christians from catholics from mormons.

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That first paragraph includes a very good point, and well said. Psychedelics are mind-manifesting in effect, so whoever you are, deep down and all around, you're gonna trip on those qualities.

I certainly resonate with your second paragraph as well. Sometimes psilocybin seems very personal, and sometimes it, again as you said so well, a pure undifferentiated energy. But what is the source of that energy? Why does it make that place feel so holy? What makes you walk on the ground with such a fear and reverence, that you could say you are truly humble and grateful? This is your honest assessment of life, as you believe it to be, in that moment. And if it is so full of glory, it is hard to imagine much is really there if an eternal life and power, in the spirit, isn't present.

As you, I do not agree that tripping leads to the exclusive worship of one specific god. The men, I think it was in Athens, worshiped all sorts of gods, even an "unknown God," which, when Paul came, he came to those people through that door, to tell them who the unknown God was, the only God who is. The Athenians knew intuitively that there were more gods than those already named and known.

If there is a God, it is the God of the Bible. Can anyone seriously bring up a God other than Him? We know all other gods are pagan ideas of the uncivilized, mythologies, etc. But there is something different going on with the Bible and the God portrayed there. He is actually and arguably a real-life God, proven no more than in the life of Jesus Christ, and I would add the apostles as well.

The personal and impersonal nature one is exposed to through the senses coming in from the existence of the world around him under the influence of psilocybin, speaks the glory of but one God, whether individuals are equipped to discern it or not. The Bible is clear that the world declares, and speaks, and shows forth the glory of God. Psilocybin has a way of making one feel that overwhelming, humbling, eternal energy.

Does any of this make sense?

To address the subject specifically, mushrooms are designed to usher the user into that "eternal state" or "holy realm." This is the place where life is meant to be lived, frankly, in the presence of God. I don't know about you, but that's where I want to be all the time.

Quote:

heirofgrace said:If there is a God, it is the God of the Bible. Can anyone seriously bring up a God other than Him? We know all other gods are pagan ideas of the uncivilized, mythologies, etc. [...] whether individuals are equipped to discern it or not. The Bible is clear that the world declares, and speaks, and shows forth the glory of God.

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Quote:

heirofgrace said:To address the subject specifically, mushrooms are designed to usher the user into that "eternal state" or "holy realm." This is the place where life is meant to be lived, frankly, in the presence of God. I don't know about you, but that's where I want to be all the time.

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Quote:

If there is a God, it is the God of the Bible. Can anyone seriously bring up a God other than Him? We know all other gods are pagan ideas of the uncivilized, mythologies, etc. But there is something different going on with the Bible and the God portrayed there. He is actually and arguably a real-life God, proven no more than in the life of Jesus Christ, and I would add the apostles as well.

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This is the second time you bring this up....

I guess, since we MUST be going this way....

Could you seriously show me 3 reasons why the God of the bible is the GOD of the universe? And negating Baal doesnt count as a reason.

Quote:

To address the subject specifically, mushrooms are designed to usher the user into that "eternal state" or "holy realm." This is the place where life is meant to be lived, frankly, in the presence of God. I don't know about you, but that's where I want to be all the time.

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heirofgrace said:

If you believe in God, do you sense the presence of God all around you? If you don't believe in God, who or what do you feel all around you?

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heirofgrace said:

It's about acknowledging, believing, and rendering every truth and promise of the word of God as unquestionably real and final. Then you will know God is with you. over).

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heirofgrace said:

True worshipers is what God seeks, Jesus said (and He said it to a adulteress to the 5th power, a whore five times over).

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bleh said:

I'm an athiest. I think it's just dandy if people have religious beliefs, but it can sometimes annoy me when a select few of them try too hard to push their beliefs upon others.

That said...

My only spiritual experience ever was also my only time on shrooms. The intense light from behind a curtain was God, and he tried to pull the life out of me.

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heirofgrace said:

Shad0w,

Three reasons for me may not be the three reasons for you. But if you really want, I will gladly, and easily, give you three reasons why I believe it.

If I'm not mistaken, not only did Jesus always know His Father, as He said "I do everything I see my Father doing, and I say only that which the Father tells me", but Paul also, or else he wouldn't have said "All have deserted me, but the Lord stood with me."

It's not about being meditative or trip-like with the visuals and stuff. It's about acknowledging, believing, and rendering every truth and promise of the word of God as unquestionably real and final. What kind of state that does produce? What kind of person does that form? What does a man look like when he goes through his life knowing God is with him in everything he does and everywhere he is. That man will spend his life finding and proving the good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

Furthermore, the nature of Psilocybin is meant to be fleeting. It is meant to up and leave you forsaken. It doesn't abide with you. It can't. Psilocybin is an instant, but impermanent resident. The body flushes it out. The reason it is so provocative is because Psilocybin, behaving like neurotransmitters, alights your networked brain in the neurological sense. You're brain is actually transformed for a time. You actually become smarter, think more holistically about the world, and see life in terms of relationships.

Do you want true wisdom, power, life? You won't find it anywhere but from the right hand of God, where Christ Jesus the Lord sits enthroned above all principality and powers, thrones and dominions, rulers and authorities.

Shrooms won't give you anything you don't already have. You have sin. Shrooms can't take it away. It can't wash you clean. It can't free your mind from the muck of selfish motives and an irreverent, rebellious heart toward the Lord. Truth is what sets a man free. Jesus said "I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one comes to the Father but by me." There it is, He laid it down. Could He have been more exclusive? Of course shrooms can't keep you where you need to be. That is why the Bible calls everyone to take and eat the Word of God, always speaking the truth, always singing the truth, always thinking the truth.

Otherwhitemeat,

Mystery isn't knowing the "answer." True mystery isn't being in the dark and not knowing the answers. If that were true mystery, our goal as human beings should be to know absolutely nothing, in order to achieve the highest pleasure of mystery. But true mystery is realizing the greatness of life, and more, realizing the greatness of God. It isn't about "answers." That kind of philosophy lifts up the intellect, as if emotions and will weren't as valuable. So it's not about answers. It's about majesty.

Majesty is power and holiness combined. So when you stand before God, and you even understand (or known all the answers about) Him, the unhindered power and unalterable holiness of Him will throw your head to the ground, and your crown cast at His feet. He is GREAT.

True worshipers is what God seeks, Jesus said (and He said it to a adulteress to the 5th power, a whore five times over).

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