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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Psychedelic Experience
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Re: Shrooms and the Presence of God [Re: heirofgrace]
    #10665040 -

i eat shrooms to become jesus

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Re: Shrooms and the Presence of God [Re: snesgamer]
    #10665581 -

I'm not a spiritual person. In the past I was, but psychedelics have actually steered me away from that type of thinking.

The drugs are altering my brain chemistry and changing the way I perceive reality. Nothing more. It can still be very profound, no doubt, but I don't feel the need to try to make up an explanation for what is happening.

People have done just that for centuries... all the crazy storys humans have come up with to justify their existances and even natural events they can't explain. To think primitive people honestly used to believe that thunder was caused by the God Thor throwing his hammer around, or other tales like that. I mean- it's a cool thought, but at the end of the day it's just a fairy tale and a poor attempt at coming to terms with the unexplanable.

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Re: Shrooms and the Presence of God [Re: Subconscious]
    #10665650 -

An invisible, immortal, infinite God who is full of glory, out of whose mouth was breathed the visible, physical, dynamic creation by a mere word, hardly fits, in my mind, to be nothing but a poor attempt at coming to terms with the unexplainable. It opens up more doors than we previously had, much more than we could handle to begin with.

But that's interesting you attribute psychedelics with leading your mind away from that sort of thinking. Can you explain?

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Re: Shrooms and the Presence of God [Re: heirofgrace]
    #10667865 -

I think he may have just been trying to explain that psychedelics have guided him towards a perception that spiritual beliefs are, in his opinion, inadequate in an attempt to describe the nature of the universe. 

Your description of god can indeed be compared with the Thor description he used as example. 

You mentioned that you want a church to take responsibility for your life, and fulfill other needs that many people are able to have met with normal social interaction. You also said that you think very few people don't believe in god, which, by any definition of the term, 'god,' is absurd and either misinformed or delusional.  Assuming that you're including animists and polythiests in your definition, there are still plenty of athiests to go around. 

It is ironic that you find mushrooms to fulfill these needs (they are basically assuming an assertive maternal/paternal role, the need of which ought to have been fulfilled as a child.)  Yet this monotheistic, dogmatic, religious certainty remains. 

I don't doubt that there is some sort of trauma at the root of this, and I empathize with you. I really think that you may be looking for a cult.  Have you tried finding a group of secular friends that may be able to meet these needs?  Try a festival!

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Re: Shrooms and the Presence of God [Re: monkeyheaven]
    #10668710 -

Mushrooms actually lead me away from organized religion. I agree with the main messages and morals of the Christian faith still (former Christian), but I've researched too much into other religions to really accept any one ideology or philosophy over another.

I have collected all the concepts I identify with best to help me be the best person I can be; all religions have correlating ideas, people get so caught up in believing their chosen faith is the correct one that they don't realize they all might be worshiping the same divine spirit, and the ideals are much the same. Mushrooms and psychedelic use have helped me to become more spiritual than I ever could have imagined. I believe there is a higher power, and yes I feel his presence and influence in my life, I want to be love and light for my world. I want to spark a positive change.

One time I smoked DMT and saw Christ on the ceiling, that was pretty crazy. Sometimes when tripping hard I've noticed how beautiful and harmonious everything is on this Earth, or in moments of purity in bliss I feel the need to thank whoever made it possible. Life is crazy and a trip in itself.


--------------------
Lysergic exploration.
Fungus-induced enlightenment.
Herbal healing.

"When you realize how perfect everything is you will tilt your head back and laugh at the sky." -Buddha.

:aum: Peace :peace:, Love :heart:, and Light :psychsplit: :aum:

*EVERYTHING I SAY ON THIS SITE IS PURELY FICTION*

Edited by TheMerryGangster (07/13/09 03:25 PM)

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Re: Shrooms and the Presence of God [Re: TheMerryGangster]
    #10669920 -

psychedelics and a couple semesters as a student of the physical sciences put me onto believing in something 'other'. dmt in particular.


--------------------
People never seem to know what they least suspect is coming next.

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Re: Shrooms and the Presence of God [Re: tyler_0_durden]
    #10669969 -

tyler_0_durden said:
When I trip on a psychedelic, I'm convinced that the visuals I'm seeing are really unfiltered reality with matter in superposition pouring into my brain through my eyes, and thus, I am seeing how the universe actually works. Because it appears to me as one complete entity moving in synchronous harmony, I consider it to be something with an essence about it, which I consider to be God. It makes sense to me because if I am part of this moving, gyrating energy that isn't completely definite, it's like being one piece in a giant puzzle. It's hard for me to explain without not making a lot of sense, and if I were to try and explain it, it would take volumes. And I don't want to get into another damn argument and have people flame me or call me a "dumbass" or "fucking retarded" just because of my beliefs.

So, to avoid confrontation by the hoards of atheists that are about to insult me, I'm never going to look at this topic again. Bye.


Yeah i based my deviant art username, and all my art on RealityUnfiltered. http://realityunfiltered.deviantart.com/
And yes I do believe you can see god on mushrooms, or through them. I also have seen Jesus on mushrooms, with a panic stricken face, as he was being crucified. It felt as though I became him, by injesting manna.


--------------------
Fact: Saving the environment can take centuries
A blow job can take up to 5 minutes.
"When was the last time you heard green peace talk about the immense pleasure you get when you put your penis in someone Else's mouth? " -jonlajoie

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Re: Shrooms and the Presence of God [Re: monkeyheaven]
    #10670172 -

monkeyheaven said:
I think he may have just been trying to explain that psychedelics have guided him towards a perception that spiritual beliefs are, in his opinion, inadequate in an attempt to describe the nature of the universe. 

Your description of god can indeed be compared with the Thor description he used as example. 

You mentioned that you want a church to take responsibility for your life, and fulfill other needs that many people are able to have met with normal social interaction. You also said that you think very few people don't believe in god, which, by any definition of the term, 'god,' is absurd and either misinformed or delusional.  Assuming that you're including animists and polythiests in your definition, there are still plenty of athiests to go around. 

It is ironic that you find mushrooms to fulfill these needs (they are basically assuming an assertive maternal/paternal role, the need of which ought to have been fulfilled as a child.)  Yet this monotheistic, dogmatic, religious certainty remains. 

I don't doubt that there is some sort of trauma at the root of this, and I empathize with you. I really think that you may be looking for a cult.  Have you tried finding a group of secular friends that may be able to meet these needs?  Try a festival!


Yes, you're very perceptive. Shrooms really takes the place of a sort of parent-teacher, or pastor-teacher, or God-Father. They treat me the way I need to be treated, and shift me into the realm that feels so right, where life really is meant to be experienced. They set my mind above the clouds and let me see my world from the heavens. They collect my affections and head them up under a singular purpose. They wash me in revelations and grace. They open my eyes and make me know how precious it can be to stand on my two feet. They affirm to me that God cares for my life as deeply as I do, I am not alone, and my life will be written out, like a story, as though God were writing his own story.

You could say I am looking for a cult, except I am not stupid enough to follow men and make them into little gods. But I am attracted to charisma, strength, and knowledge. Yet who isn't? What I need is a family, the person of Christ magnified through a body of people, surrounding me, affirming me, correcting, reproving, instructing, and training me. What past socialization and the culture that has been imbedded within me is so strong, I need nothing short than a powerful movement to sweep me away as it were that I may be new.

I don't have God boxed in. But, how can I look across the globe and see all these people, and these families, loving and marrying, exchanging gifts and giving themselves--how can I see these highly personal, dynamic relationships all over the world, and it not be a reflection of an infinitely personal Creator? Otherwise, where did this all come from? A big bang out of nothing? I see no other possibilities than an unfathomable, uncontainable, unapproachable God.

It's funny you mention a group of friends or a festival. Is it not alright to gather a small group from this forum and trip together?

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Re: Shrooms and the Presence of God [Re: heirofgrace]
    #10670280 -

heirofgrace, you really ought to read this:

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/10663932#10663932

if you like, you can PM me and I can direct you to a lot more where that came from


--------------------
MY HAIR IS A BIRD 
YOUR ARGUMENT IS INVALID

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Re: Shrooms and the Presence of God [Re: heirofgrace]
    #10670341 -

This is a good topic, OP.

I do not believe in god, at best I believe in a Universal fatalism that I can only control by doing everything just right. However, when I trip I often feel the presence of the mushrooms/universe/gods all around me.

Mushrooms are the closest thing I have to religion. 360 days a year I don't give a fuck about spirituality, but when I trip I sometimes catch myself even praying, though not to a Jehovah/Jesus/Yahweh type of deity.


To me it's kind of like when you were a kid and had a lucid wet dream. You can feel the titties and ass, the heat on your dick, you can even taste the sweat, but it isn't real. Even though in material reality you cream yourself, the girl was never real in our waking world, just like the gods/universe that affect me during and even after the trip.

If it weren't for mushrooms, I would call myself an atheist. Instead I view myself as the casual church-goer who only goes to service on holidays. Only I replace wafers with drugs, and the voice of a preacher with my own thoughts.


--------------------
A final message to my favorite online community

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Re: Shrooms and the Presence of God [Re: heirofgrace]
    #10673657 -

I agree that this is a great topic.
heirofgrace, 
I didn't mean to imply that I think there is anything wrong with cults, or small groups of like-minded people getting together to explore & celebrate spirituality or anything else. 
While you say that you don't have god 'boxed in,' It seems that you do have some rather specific needs that likely won't be met unless you:

A) lower your standards
B) join a cult
C) start a cult

I am defining cult somewhere in between its connotation and denotation, I'd say it's a tight knit group of devout believers, who engage in worship and rituals that are more intense than those practiced by mainstream churches.  Members are compelled to join out of a sense of spiritual (or situational) desperation, and their inability to resist charismatic & strong leaders, whom they believe to posess special knowlege. 

Personally, I have found choice A) to be interesting, but there are many paths, and I'm sure you'll find your way.
Peace & love-

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Re: Shrooms and the Presence of God [Re: monkeyheaven]
    #10674586 -

I think the main difference between believers and atheists is that believers are incapable of admitting that there may not be a God.

I don't think that my being an atheist means that I do not reap the same benefits believers do from taking psychedelics.

I may feel that I am in the presence of "God" during a profound psychedelic experience, but I don't feel that it is wise to come down and assume that the experience was anything other than the effect of the chemicals I ingested reacting with my brain.

Perhaps my 15-year love affair with psychedelics stems from my desire to search beyond the binding logic that teases me in day-to-day life, and venture into the unchartered avenues of my mind, for a vacation into the beautiful chaos before returning home faithfully to my good friend, Reason.

I find a great deal of solace in sanity.

That may be why I cling so tightly to scientifically formulated explanations of our cosmic situation.

It would be too frustrating for me to put any stock into the idea of a Divine Creator breathing a Universe into existence.

I am afraid that would leave me with more questions than I set out to answer.

:strokebeard3:


--------------------
If you build it they will shrug.
:shrug:

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Re: Shrooms and the Presence of God [Re: heirofgrace]
    #10679129 -

I've never used the term "God" to describe this particular experience, but on a number of occasions I have manifested as the supreme consciousness. I became that which is highest. For that moment I was everyone and everything. In fact I was no longer me...the "me" was irrelevant...I was beyond "me" or "I".

Everyone, everything, everywhere....that's what I became.


--------------------

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Re: Shrooms and the Presence of God [Re: Swyfty Swyf]
    #10682576 -

uber_aj said:
If it weren't for mushrooms, I would call myself an atheist.


Very interesting. But would you attribute your belief in God solely to Psilocybin? Or is there something else at work there..


monkeyheaven said:
It seems that you do have some rather specific needs that likely won't be met unless you:

A) lower your standards
B) join a cult
C) start a cult



There must be a D) none of the above.

I remain a Christian because I have discovered no greater authority in the matter of truth than the holy Bible. It doesn't matter what men have said, because none of us has the authority to know and discern what is true and real, especially in the metaphysical realm. Only shall men know what God has revealed to them.

This is why I'm not interested in cults, or lowering my standards. I'm interested in the purity and maturity of the church, for my very own sake, because I am hungry for, and delight myself in, the person of Christ. And nothing could be more treasured by a Christian His glorious body, pure and mature in faith and love.


Swyfty Swyf said:
That may be why I cling so tightly to scientifically formulated explanations of our cosmic situation.

It would be too frustrating for me to put any stock into the idea of a Divine Creator breathing a Universe into existence.



If you look closely at the origins of the universe from a truly scientific perspective, you may find something quite startling. The scientific method requires that evidence be falsifiable and repeatable. The Big Bang theory cannot be proven untrue, since we cannot go back and witness the time of the event, nor can anyone produce an experiment or generate an observation replicating the Big Bang. The same goes with the Creation Account. The result then  is that anyone holding to either the Big Bang Theory or the Creation Account is simply, at best, a believer, and not a scientist.

Scientifically, reasonably, logically, it is impossible that everything could come from nothing. When there is no time, no space, no matter, no life, no laws, no God, then there can never be anything. Information must come into the equation. But when there is absolutely nothing, then neither is there information out there somewhere that could ever be part of the equation. You will forever be left with nothing. Chance isn't even an issue.

On the other hand, where there is no time, no space, no matter, no life, no laws, nothing, except a Spirit, whose spiritual personality and being is so infinitely full of eternal life, order, and information, then it makes perfect sense, and satisfies reason, to say that from the fullness of this Spirit came everything in the physical and complex universe we find ourselves in.

Furthermore, if God exists outside, beyond, and above time, according to this view, then eternity is not some infinite distance or measure or time, but He Himself is eternity. Before there was time, there was God. There is nothing greater than God, even time. The same goes with anything. This is why I have said, that to look out and see all the peoples of the earth, and loving affection being mingled within every culture, where there is marrying, the having and raising of children, there must be an infinitely more personal God whose image we are all imitating without even knowing it. There is nothing in this universe that could be greater or more complex than that from which it came.

"From Him and by Him all things come, to Him and for Him all things go."

"In Him we live and move and have our being."

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Re: Shrooms and the Presence of God [Re: heirofgrace]
    #10683366 -

heirofgrace said:
When you're high on Shrooms...

Do you feel the presence of God? (For those who believe in God)

Or

Who or What do you feel? (For those who don't believe in God)



Only when I'm good.:laugh:


--------------------
:mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2:"There is a world beyond ours, a world that is far away, nearby, and invisible. And there is where God lives, where the dead live, the spirits and the saints, a world where everything has already happened and everything is known. That world talks. It has a language of its own. I report what it says. The sacred mushroom takes me by the hand and brings me to the world where everything is known. It is they, the sacred mushrooms, that speak in a way I can understand.":mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2:

:sunny::mushroom2:Maria Sabina:mushroom2::sunny:

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Re: Shrooms and the Presence of God [Re: sandman_130]
    #10683842 -

Maybe the Penis Envy strain is really... His?

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Re: Shrooms and the Presence of God [Re: heirofgrace]
    #10684355 -

heirofgrace said:
uber_aj said:
If it weren't for mushrooms, I would call myself an atheist.


Very interesting. But would you attribute your belief in God solely to Psilocybin? Or is there something else at work there..


It is solely Psilocybin. I'm a preacher's kid, I gave up on literal Xianity, started studying religion, tied it all back to mushrooms and ergot, and then did my first grow.

I've been to Haiti and the Dominican Republic on mission trips, went to church my whole adolescent life, adopted my little sis from China, had a few NDEs, and I've never felt anything even mildly profound in a religious sense, save for tripping on mushrooms.

Still, don't get me wrong, I don't believe in "God." I just don't accept that the world is as cut-and-dry as most atheists do. I don't dismiss the idea of an afterlife, but I certainly don't believe that it will be with Jesus in Heaven, or Satan in Hell.


--------------------
A final message to my favorite online community

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Re: Shrooms and the Presence of God [Re: heirofgrace]
    #10694720 -

Well in hopes of reviving this thread, cuz I want people to gush out what they feel is going on in their mystical experiences with mushrooms

I believe that if people are paying attention to the experience, being still, quiet, and listening during the physical transformation that's taking place, turning off the music and tripping alone, and willingly endure the terror and fear, they will face the glory and power of God in His grace, in varying measures, radiating through the immediate experience of the miracle of existence. If anyone experiences or interprets the experience less than the presence of God, I do not see that happening for any other reason than that

1) they aren't paying attention to the work and nature of Psilocybin (it's design and purpose, you could say) but are busy having fun with friends, or limiting their state of emotions by attaching themselves to their favorite music, etc., or

2) they haven't widened their grasp of the essence of life, glory and power, through observation and experience, enough to understand what is taking place during the psychedelic experience, and what it is intending to do.

Psilocybin means to burden you with the eternal weight of glory. If you don't experience God, than you have yet to stand at the edge of the Real Grand Canyon, the Real Niagra Falls, the Real Great Pyramid, and feel true awe. There is nothing greater or more blessed than to be in the presence of the only one and true living God.

If anyone has issues with God, it's because they know that the only arguably true God, is the God of the Bible, and He judges sin. Not fun when we're all sinners. But isn't it ironic that the only believable gods are those of the Bible, whether Christian, or Catholic, or Muslim, or Mormon.

My point is, if you don't believe in God, or if you don't know God, you're missing the purpose of the pyschedelic experience, and you're getting off rummaging through the petty details of insights, breathing walls, morphing hands, shimmering light, and brilliant colors, or even increasing intimacy between yourself and others. Those things are hollow shells if they are not clothing and adorning the personal and holy God.

I don't mean anything personally, I have made many friends who were atheists, but take what you can get from it -- my 2 cents.

"From our fallen perspective, we usually do not see that God has one condition that He initially demands of us. It is not to believe, to repent, to be conscious of sin, or even to know that Christ died; the only requirement God has of us is that we approach Him with an honest heart (Psalm 51:17)" -Watchman Nee

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Re: Shrooms and the Presence of God [Re: heirofgrace]
    #10694756 -

ERmmm....

Based on this last post...

And nothing more....( no vendetta against God or heirofgrace )

I vote for a move to the religion section.

OR for a mod to close it please.........

On the grounds that the "god of the bible is arguably the only true god".....

And there is a forum specifically for that. :thumbup:

BTW, the psycho/spiritual elitism is kinda annoying too, could you tone it down a bit?

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Re: Shrooms and the Presence of God [Re: uber_aj]
    #10694759 -

uber_aj said:
I don't dismiss the idea of an afterlife, but I certainly don't believe that it will be with Jesus in Heaven, or Satan in Hell.


QFT

god doesn't care if you kill your neighbor, it's you who'd have to live with your conscience...and watch out for karma; it somehow has a way of evening things for some strange reason.


--------------------
"Experiments are the only means of attaining knowledge at our disposal. The rest is just poetry, imagination." ~Max Planck

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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Psychedelic Experience
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