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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Bad Faith
    #10273727 -

Bad faith is a philosophical principle developed by Sarte that warns against thinking that oneself possesses the quality of being "a (anything)"  For example, it would be bad faith for a man who gambles to consider himself a gambler, or a heroin addict to consider himself a junkie.  Sarte argues that to place a label on oneself is a wrong choice because it restricts the will of a person within a specified framework that a label brings.

I think that bad faith is an extremely useful tool for seeing though stereotypes and labels, and keeping it in mind works wonders for well-being.  Anyone disagree?  Anyone thought of Bad faith without knowing it was already a philosophical principle?

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Re: Bad Faith [Re: xFrockx]
    #10273764 -

Your general sentiment is not far off, but I disagree with your use of terminology. You are talking about 'play-acting", a more general Sartrean concept; bad faith is a technical description of a certain phenomena of consciousness. Of course his entire philosophy alludes to an aura of authenticity, but "bad faith" is much more specific than how you describe it. Have you read through Being and Nothingness, or are you currently working through it? Its a pretty dense text, that's all I'm saying.


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Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
  The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
  The frumious Bandersnatch!

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Re: Bad Faith [Re: daytripper23]
    #10273778 -

I've not read it all, I just got my general idea from a paper I heard at a conference last semester.  Could you explain how I am mistaken?  I wouldn't mind knowing for my own sake.

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Re: Bad Faith [Re: xFrockx]
    #10273901 -

Id say its more of a generalization than a mistake, because the common implication of bad faith is pretty close to what you describe. Bad faith is probably the centerpiece of my personal philosophy, and that's the only reason I would object to what seems to be an innocent vagueness. So no, I do not see a contradiction per say. Sartre describes it as a phenomenon of consciousness though, so we may no exactly what our bad faith is:

Quote:
What unity do we find in these vaious aspects of bad faith? It is a certain art of forming contradictory concepts which unite in themselves both an idea and the negation of that idea. The basic concept which is thus engendered, utilizes the double property of the human being, who is at once a facticity and a transcendence. These two aspects of human reality are and ought to be capable of a valid co-ordination. But bad faith does not wish either to co-ordinate them or to surmount them in a synthesis. Bad faith seeks to affirm their identity while preserving their differences. It must affirm facticity as being transcendence and transcendence as being facticity, in such a way that at the instant a person apprehends the one, he can find himself abruptly faced with the other



Sartre can seem pretty awkward with language at times, and in my experience its often best to understand his examples and then refer to and decipher his strict concepts. (I think this may have to do with English translation issues. A particular example of that is the French "Negatite", which is simply translated as negation in the English language) Anyways here is the classic example given by Sartre of "Bad Faith"; I'd read this and then refer back to his definition:

Quote:
Take the example of a young woman who has consented to go out with a particular man for the first time. She knows very well the intentions which the man who is speaking to her cherishes regarding her. She knows also that it will be necessary sooner or later for her to make a decision. But she does not want to feel the urgency; she concerns herself only with what is respectful and discreet in the attitude of her companion. She does not apprehend this conduct as an attempt to make what we call "the first advances"; that is, she does not want to see possibilities of temporal development which his conduct presents. She restricts this behavior to what is in the present; she does not wish to read in the phrases which he addresses to her anything other than their explicit meaning. If he says to her, "I find you so attractive!" she disarms this phrase of its sexual implications; she attaches to the conversation and to the behavior of the speaker the immediate meanings which she imagines as objective qualities. The man who is speaking to her appears to her sincere and respectful as the table is round or square, as the wall coloring is blue or gray.

The qualities thus attached to the person she is listening to are in this way congealed in a permanence like that of things, which is no other than the projection of the strict present of the qualities into the temporal flux. This is because she does not quite know what she wants. She is profoundly aware of the desire which she inspires, but the desire cruel and naked would humiliate and horrify her. Yet she would find no charm in a respect which would be only respect. In order to satisfy her, there must be a feeling which is addressed wholly to her personality- i.e., to her full freedom-and which would be a recognition of her freedom. But at the same time this feeling must be wholly desire; that is, it must address itself to her body as object. This time, then, she refuses to apprehend the desire for what it is; she does not give it a name, she recognizes it only to the extent that it transcends itself toward admiration, esteem, respect an that it is wholly absorbed in the more refined forms which it produces, to the extent of no longer retaining any prominence except as a sort of warmth and destiny.

But then suppose he takes her hand. This act of her companion risks changing the situation by calling for an immediate decision. To leave the hand there is to consent in herself to flirt, to involve herself. To withdraw it is to break the troubled and unstable harmony which gives the hour its charm. Her aim is to postpone the moment of decision as long as possible. We know what happens next; the young woman leaves her hand there, but she does not notice that she is leaving it. She does not notice because it happens by chance that she is at this moment wholly spiritual. She draws her companion up to the most lofty regions of sentimental speculation; she speaks of life, her life, she shows herself in her essential aspect - a personality a consciousness. And during this time the divorce of the body from the soul is accomplished; the hand rests inert between the warm hands of her companion - neither consenting nor resisting - a thing. We shall say that this woman is in bad faith.




--------------------
Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
  The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
  The frumious Bandersnatch!

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Re: Bad Faith [Re: daytripper23]
    #10273956 -

What I take from the example is that "divorcing oneself" from the current situation is bad faith, is that roughly what he means you think?

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Re: Bad Faith [Re: xFrockx]
    #10274027 -

Well yea, thats the problem; a person is consciously avoiding, or divorcing themselves from an aspect of reality. Its a particular "freedom" that an individual seems to have. But that has pretty much always been recognized in philosophy as a basic lack of integrity, no? To that extent, Id say most everybody has pretty good intuitive understanding of bad faith, whether they have read Sartre's philosophy or not. What Sartre describes, is the precise method of that.

"Bad faith" is in how one divorces himself from certain aspects of reality to his/her particular "conveniences". Id say focus on the idea of these conveniences; as Sartre puts it, the circumstantial "manipulations" of transcendental, and immanent aspects of reality. The result is a sort of structural myth of being.


--------------------
Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
  The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
  The frumious Bandersnatch!

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Re: Bad Faith [Re: xFrockx]
    #10274070 -

This concept is very interesting, I still feel like I don't have a comprehensive handle on it, moreso in regards to the phenomenon of conscious that it is posited as at bottom. Good discussion so far.

A sense of shame seems very big difference with the woman on a date example and the waiter one.

Daytripper, you seem to know your Sartre stuff so maybe explain a bit more if you could... :sun: (edit, seems like you did, well even then I think more discussion would be good)



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Jesus loves you.

Edited by andrewss (05/02/09 04:45 PM)

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Re: Bad Faith [Re: andrewss]
    #10274149 -

it's a pretty loaded term dripping with irony but he has a good point.

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Re: Bad Faith [Re: Quetzalcohuatl]
    #10276367 -

Sounds interesting.

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Re: Bad Faith [Re: xFrockx]
    #10276437 -

I never labeled myself. Labels are stupid. :tongue:


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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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