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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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Cosmic Constants
    #10199211 -

I apologize in advance if my presentation is a little sloppy or slightly mistated.

There is an argument among some Creationists that all of the cosmic constants (forces between and in atoms and stars, speed of light, etc.) are so finley tuned that the Universe would not work if one of these myriad of forces was just the tiniest bit off. For example: if gravity was a touch stronger, all stars would collapse in on themselves very quickly, never allowing planetary life to form.

There is some math and physics showing the possibility that there is more leeway in the constants and that many universes with different forces could exist.

For the sake of this thread, let's go with the former and pretend that all of the best astro physicists agree that the Universe could only have formed with one specific number down to the 1000th decimal point for each cosmic constant for the universe to bring forth life.

Does this merely introduce a relatively new and tantalizing mystery on its own, or is it indeed, evidence of an Intelligent Designer/God?


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Re: Cosmic Constants [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #10199223 -

I fail to see how because something only works one way that it follows someone had to have made it. It just does not follow


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Re: Cosmic Constants [Re: learningtofly]
    #10199248 -

Are you saying that at the moment of the Big Bang, a dozen or more trillion-sided dice were not randomly tossed to get some arbitrary values? How would you explain fixed values?


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Re: Cosmic Constants [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #10199255 -

Lets say that the trillion sided dice were randomly tossed, wouldnt the values they landed on then be fixed?


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Re: Cosmic Constants [Re: learningtofly]
    #10201263 -

The universe would still exist if the values were different, it would just be a very different place. The values must be accurate to the .0001 to form our exact universe, but if the "dice" had landed differently, the laws of the universe would just be different. So no, it would not be evidence of creation because its equally likely that this set of cosmic constants is random and because of those random values, the universe looks the way it does.


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"If the doors of perception were cleansed every thing would appear to man as it is, infinite. For man has closed himself up, till he sees all things through narrow chinks of his cavern." - William Blake

"Psychedelics helped me to escape.. albeit momentarily.. from the prison of my mind. It over-rode the habit patterns of thought and I was able to taste innocence again. Looking at sensations freshly without the conceptual overlay was very profound." - Ram Das

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Re: Cosmic Constants [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #10207280 -

As of yet, no one has derived the laws of chemistry from the standard model. Just deriving the laws of nuclear physics amounts to an intractable problem if one starts from the complete theory of the strong force. General rules of thumbs and big assumptions are always needed to sense the link between the interplay of energy, time and length scales. That is, even the simple "weak" emergence from, e.g., nuclear physics to chemistry, or in general the dilution of a small scale theory into one at larger scale, is utterly misunderstood. It seems theories we have do not contradict themselves too much, yet their usefulness stays within restrictive bounds and do not speak very much about their neighbours.

Given the same set of laws but dressed with different fundamental constants, we know things would behave differently, obviously. Even more so given different laws with their own peculiarities, let alone in hypothetical cases where speaking of laws stops to make sense. Something else would be happening in such "parallel" universes, who knows about life as we do or don't know it if we can't even make sense out of our own ?

It adds up to worrying that you can't checkmate at checkers, or that you can't win at poker because there aren't any board or pieces, therefore gods exist or whatever.

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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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