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OfflineMobMan
Stranger
Registered: 09/10/02
Posts: 15
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
Need your help bad...
    #1017591 - 11/03/02 04:11 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Ok heres the story, Im supposed to trip for the first time this weekend, but I have been reading some of the stuff on brain chemistry and its really making me second guess myself. First, my half uncle is an schitzo and I have ADD. There maybe more mental health problem when you go into great and great great grandparents on my grandmothers side but nobody knows for sure. One of my doctors also think I am bi-polar but this seems far fetched because I never have highs and lows and other doctors that are more credited then him came to the conclusion that I am NOT bi-polar. Still it worries me. I was going to take 3/4ths an 1/8 with a good friend that has shroomed once before. Shrooming is something I really want to do and am willing to take some risks but I dont want it to screw up my mental health any further or cause any permanent damage ( I am having a hard enough time coping with ADD). I am generally very carefull with what I put in my body in regards to drugs and believe shrooms will be my last venture. Do you think I should shroom? Please only reply with FACTUAL advice and if possible post a link to support your opinion. I will be very disappointed if I cannot shroom but it is better then loosing my mind. Also keep in mind that I do not take any medications.

Also, is causing brain imbalances more likely on acid then on shrooms? Is one of them safer then the other?

Last question, Are flashbacks and changing you high while smoking weed likely to happen on shrooms (not acid) or is it pretty rare?


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Offlinemikey_
SURFING ON SINEWAVES
Male

Registered: 08/10/02
Posts: 370
Loc: Liverpool
Last seen: 8 years, 1 month
Re: Need your help bad... [Re: MobMan]
    #1017756 - 11/03/02 07:15 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

its not the chemical you put in your body with regards to shrooms or acid thats gonna potentially aggravate a psychotic episode type thing.
its the intensity of the experience and the stress your brain goes through. if you're not on any medication then surely thats a good sign that whatever you have is not too serious. although i am only guessing here.

my college teacher used to work in a mental hospital, and he was also a big acid head and shroomer. he said in his 12yrs there he saw only a few people coming in with problems from acid/shrooms. and they had been abusing them seriously.

i think maybe a small dose would suffice, and take it from there.
theres a thread in trip tips i think or maybe general questions, called "my bi-polar brother wants to dose". i suggest you read the answers given there.


--------------------
The poison is the dose - Paracelsus
Let your food be medicine and your medicine be food - Hippocrates


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Offlineegolesss
veteran
Registered: 10/26/00
Posts: 1,005
Last seen: 14 years, 26 days
Re: Need your help bad... [Re: MobMan]
    #1018889 - 11/03/02 05:34 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Over the years I've known 3 manic-depressives/bi-polars and 1 ADD diagnosed people to trip. I belive they tend to trip harder than others. I can say it's often hard to diagnose ADD and bi-polars they are very similar. Some mediacation will also keep you from tripping, 1 friend didn't trip at all due to his thorazine meds. I would say if there is any doubt, don't do it, worrying through a trip is no fun..It's up to you, you know yourself better than anyone else, I would definitely dose 2 small times if you do -it will come on slower. Eating say 1 gram then 30minutes later another gram or less should introduce you...Don't be pressured to slit a quarter and dose all at once ect. do your own thing...good luck


--------------------
Going crazy will drive you mad, but once you get there the rest is easy....All spores are not created equal!!!!!!!!!!! Sporeworks, Hawkseye, PF, they are completely viable with very strong genetics.




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OfflineItsAllGood
London Shroomer

Registered: 10/09/02
Posts: 175
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 13 years, 11 months
Re: Need your help bad... [Re: egolesss]
    #1018912 - 11/03/02 05:45 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

This subect really frazzles me. I honestly believe that anyone suffering froma mental illness should not mess the psychotic drugs.

I have learnt recently that Americans are diagnosied as being bi-polar allmost like its a cold. People with this disorder have to take drugs to control it - anti pyschotics/lithium/carbomazapine etc etc.

The point being that whether you are on medication or not - if you are mentally unwell don't fuck around with drugs (they are not the answer to your problems).

I only get wound up about this coz my wife suffers from real B-PED giving her mushrooms would be REAL BAD .


--------------------
What a terrible thing to lay on somebody with a head full of acid


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Offlineegolesss
veteran
Registered: 10/26/00
Posts: 1,005
Last seen: 14 years, 26 days
Re: Need your help bad... [Re: ItsAllGood]
    #1018930 - 11/03/02 05:51 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Witnessing these trtippers first hand I can tell you no-one has lost it or cracked any chromosomes having a nice time. I'm glad you are worried, but your post has no facts in it...


--------------------
Going crazy will drive you mad, but once you get there the rest is easy....All spores are not created equal!!!!!!!!!!! Sporeworks, Hawkseye, PF, they are completely viable with very strong genetics.




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OfflineItsAllGood
London Shroomer

Registered: 10/09/02
Posts: 175
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 13 years, 11 months
Re: Need your help bad... [Re: egolesss]
    #1018949 - 11/03/02 06:02 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

I take your point (No facts). But having visted a mental hospital (full of PB's and ADD') for 4 months I sure as shit would not want to see any of those people tripping. Seeing people that have self harmed and all that stuff has made me probably overly wary of people with mental illness's.

But as you say only the person planning to do it knows their own mind (well unless their in the middle of a manic episode).

Be safe


--------------------
What a terrible thing to lay on somebody with a head full of acid


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OfflineMobMan
Stranger
Registered: 09/10/02
Posts: 15
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
Re: Need your help bad... [Re: MobMan]
    #1019766 - 11/04/02 01:24 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

I belive i am in good mental health my ADD is very mild and i never have highs and lows wich is know to be the backbone of a bi-polar. I am in no way considering mushrooms just to have a goood time at a party I want to use them as as "tool to help me through life" as many others have put it. I think i would have to actually take mushrooms to understand but i dont want to be any different when i come down. I have been in a mental hospital 1 time for a few days but that was because of depression after my father died a year ago, completely unrelated to any permanent problems. Dont mistake me fore the people in such a hospital i am in no way that psycotic. Also ADD is far more common then you think i belive one in every 10 americans have this disorder. I think I have came to the conclution that i am going to try them. I will definatly tell you guys how it comes out. Thx for the help.


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Offlineegolesss
veteran
Registered: 10/26/00
Posts: 1,005
Last seen: 14 years, 26 days
Re: Need your help bad... [Re: MobMan]
    #1019834 - 11/04/02 02:08 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Hope you have a good time, and it's 1-in-7 americans suffers from a mental disorder.


--------------------
Going crazy will drive you mad, but once you get there the rest is easy....All spores are not created equal!!!!!!!!!!! Sporeworks, Hawkseye, PF, they are completely viable with very strong genetics.




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Offlineamnesiaseizure
Mr
Male

Registered: 08/29/00
Posts: 282
Loc: Certainly not here.
Last seen: 6 years, 2 months
Re: Need your help bad... [Re: egolesss]
    #1020099 - 11/04/02 06:17 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

In my experience acid will leave you with a lot more to deal with in the following weeks than psilocybin. Mushrooms have a more gentle feel about them even though you can still completely lose yourself down the rabbit hole. Visuals are better too and your mind won't feel as fractured afterwards. It's up to you, of course, but i would consider it very carefully. Once you've made your choice (which is probablly gonna be in favour of tripping now that you're here) STICK TO IT and focus as much on the journey as you can. In other words the worst thing you can do is start thinking "Hell, I really shouldn't have dropped 'em" as letting go to it is the best way to assimilate what's happening. I can't stress this enough. Can you ask your doctor as to the risks, or would he frown upon these sub human needs?!
Have a great time though and let us know how it went....


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OfflineTannis
ZoneTrooper
Registered: 12/13/01
Posts: 508
Loc: MD.USA
Last seen: 13 years, 8 months
Re: Need your help bad... [Re: MobMan]
    #1020923 - 11/04/02 02:27 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

I've posted before about my experiences after three really BAD trips.......you can look them up if you want. I myself got really testy after these trips and for months after I had anxiety and depression. It didn't keep me from functioning but I changed and became more reclusive and cynical in my outlook......


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Offlinecybernaut3
journeyman
Registered: 02/05/02
Posts: 76
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
Re: Need your help bad... [Re: MobMan]
    #1059866 - 11/17/02 12:16 PM (14 years, 24 days ago)

first of all, it sounds like the shit you are reading is alarmist, pseudoscientific horseshit. you've really bought into that whole modern psychology trip, haven't you? anybody could go sit on a couch and after a few hourse get labelled with some kind of "mental illness". psychiatrists are often some of the most narrow minded people that there are, comparable to doctors and even the cops! they almost always look for symptoms on which to attach a label. dont attach a label yourself like that man.. it's not necessary and it's seriously counterproductive. ADD? it just means you are a high energy person. it is a joke. one in five people have "ADD". i call it evolution. even BP means very little unless you become mentally attached to the idea of having it. most so called "mental illness" is really a case of not exercising the mind or the body nearly enough. many shroomery-ites seem to have this problem... no discipline whatsoever. as for psychedelics they are great for CLEARING UP mental illness. one trip on mushrooms or acid have cured many people's mental illness, including schizophrenia, BP, and anxiety disorders. i know this from reading, from knowing ex-schizos, and from personal experience. when you take a drug like mushrooms you see your own mind and how it works. you understand what lies and half-truths you are holding onto that prevent you from being a whole, loving human being. i was born slightly autistic, and psychedelics (including and especially marijuana) have given me so much more perspective on my condition that now i am somewhat social and outgoing. now i am more like the dude who runs the comic book store on the Simpsons, who obviously shares my diagnosis. in the year before my first shroom trip i was paranoid of all people to the point of not going out in public, i believed i was insane, i was suicidal, and i freaked out about things all the time. no real emotions whatsoever. then i ate mushrooms and became sane, happy, and at peace once again. soon those insights carried over into my normal life forever. eat shrooms. eat many shrooms. do it with the utmost respect, and they will heal your body, your spirit, and your mind.


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OfflineNatas
Natas
Registered: 11/18/02
Posts: 48
Last seen: 14 years, 7 days
Re: Need your help bad... [Re: Tannis]
    #1068261 - 11/20/02 01:33 AM (14 years, 22 days ago)

Yeah Tannis I hear you... Im going through the same thing right now... what helps to get over the anxiety/depression ? would doing shrooms again be a good idea ?
also I was wondering if the way/fashion you consume them makes a difference..  ie .. I have four grams dried P.cubensis, and I want to take a gram every 15 minutes... would this help me to have a more pleasent experience ? or should I just avoid the zooms for a while untill I have come to grips with my anxiety depression?
Thank you... your input is appreciated .....  :cool: 


Edited by Natas (11/20/02 01:34 AM)


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Invisiblechinacat72
eyes of theworld
 User Gallery

Registered: 11/14/02
Posts: 3,626
Loc: Terrapin Station
Re: Need your help bad... [Re: MobMan]
    #1068361 - 11/20/02 02:15 AM (14 years, 22 days ago)

try a low dose and see what happens, if it makes things whorse this won`t be enough to push you over the edge. if it`s positive then you could slowly increase your dose and mabey you will find them actualy benificial to your problems. lets not forget that there is a huge potential fore benifit`s for psychedelis. these arn`t fully known until we get more valid research, which is very slowly happening in this country


--------------------
Some rise
Some fall
Some climb
To get to Terrapin!!!


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OfflineNatas
Natas
Registered: 11/18/02
Posts: 48
Last seen: 14 years, 7 days
Re: Need your help bad... [Re: chinacat72]
    #1068385 - 11/20/02 02:30 AM (14 years, 22 days ago)

So you are saying to not dose all at once, but to simply rather gradually increase the amount of mushrooms in my body, I think that one of the problems that I have been having with my bad trips is that I dose all at once. What would be a recommended/realistic time frame to injest 4 grams of dried P.Cubensis in, if I want a plesent trip ? (ie.) 4 grams of dried P.Cubensis in one hour (one gram every fifteen minutes) ?

Your help on this is appreciated and hopefully it will stop the bad trips I have been experiencing time and time again.



Edited by Natas (11/20/02 02:30 AM)


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InvisibleCow Shit Collector
Patty Poacher

Registered: 02/15/01
Posts: 1,959
Loc: Random Field
Re: Need your help bad... [Re: Natas]
    #1070652 - 11/20/02 05:27 PM (14 years, 21 days ago)

Quoted from LSD FAQ #2 from www.erowid.org
            Major "functional" psychosis vs. "LSD psychosis"

This may apply to psychedelics in general, LSD is a very potent psychedelic though

A diagnostic issue dealth with explicitly in only a few papers is that of
LSD-precipitated major functional illnesses, e.g. affective disorders
or schizophrenia.  In other words, many of these so called LSD psychoses
could be other illnesses that were triggered by the stress of a traumatic
psychedelic drug experience.  Some of the same methodological issues
described earlier affect these studies, but they are, on the averagem
better controlled, with more family and past psychiatric history available
for comparison.

Hensala et al. compared LSD-using and non-LSD-using psychiatric inpatients.
They found that this group of patients was generally of a younger age and
contained more characteristically disordered individuals than the non-
LSD-using group.  Patients with specific diagnoses with or without LSD
histories were not compared.  Based on their observations, they concluded
that LSD was basically just another drug of abuse in a population of
frequently hospitalized individuals in the San Francisco area, and that
it was unlikely that psychedelic use could be deemed etiological in the
development of their psychiatric disorders.

Roy, Breakey et al., and Vardy and Kay have attempted to relate LSD use to
the onset and revelopment of a schizophrenia-like syndrome.  A few comments
regarding this conceptual framework seem in order, before their findings
are discussed.  The major factor here is that of choosing schizophrenia,
or in the Vardy and Kay study, schizophreniform disorders, as the
comparison group.  There is an implication here that LSD psychoses are
comparable, phenomenologically, to schizophrenia-like disorders, and that
LSD can "cause" the development of such disorders.  The multiplicity of
symptoms and syndromes described in the "adverse reaction" literature
should make it clear that LSD can cause a number of reactions that can last
for any amount of time--from minutes to, possibly, years.  I believe what
is being studied here is the question of the potential role of LSD in
accelerating or precipitating the onset of an illness that was "programmed"
to develop ultimately in a particular individual--in a manner comparable
to the major physical or emotional stress that often precipitates a bona
fide myocardial infarction in an individual with advanced coronary
atheresclerosis.  The stress did not _cause_ the heart disease; it was
only the stimulus that accelerated the inexorable process to manifest
illness.

In looking at the relevant studies, Breakey et al. found that schizophrenics
who "used drugs" had an earlier onset of symptoms and hospitalization than
non-drug-using schizophrenics, and had possibly better premorbid personal-
ities than non-drug using patients (although Vardy and KAy have challenged
this analysis of Breakey's data).

Bowers compared 12 first-admission patients with psychosis related to LSD
use, requiring hospitalization and phenothiazines, to 26 patients hospital-
ized and treated with phenothiazines with no history of drug use.  Six
of these controls had been previously hospitalized.  Drug-induced psychotic
patients were found to have better premorbib histories and prognostic
indicators than the nondrug groups.  There was no difference in rates of
family history of psychiatric illness.  However, several issues flaw
this study.  One is the poly-drug abusing nature of the "LSD-induced"
psychotic patients, compared to the controls.  The role of LSD, therefore,
in causing or precipitating these symptomatic disorders, is open to dispute.
The other is the lack of an adequate comparison control group, i.e. the
controls were specified only as "psychotic," and did not necessarily
match the LSD group in either symptoms or diagnostic classification.
A follow-up study of the patients occured between 2 and 6 years later.
One half did well and one half did poorly, although the lack of a control
group for a follow-up in a similarly symptomatic control group makes
interpretation of the data difficult.

Roy, in a somewhat different design, compared chronic schizophrenic
patients (diagnosed according to DSM-III criteria) who had used LSD
within the week preceding hospitalization, and found no difference
in age of symptom onset or hospitalization compared to patients without
a history of illicit drug use.

Vardy and Kay, in an elegant study with a 3- and 5- year follow-up period,
demonstrated that patients hospitalized for a schizophrenic picture
that developed within two weeks of LSD use (patients with other diagnoses
were explicitly excluded form comparisons with non-drug-using
schizophrenics) were "fundamentally similar to schizophrenics in
geneology, phenomenology, and course of illness (165, p. 877).  Pre-
morbid adjustment, age of onset of symptoms and hospitalization, family
history of psychosis or suicide, and most cognitive features were also
equal between groups.  Family histories of alcohol abuse were markedly
great in the LSD group.

I believe these data, taken as a whole, limited as they are in terms of
comparing subgroups (i.e. LSD-using vs. non-LSD-using) of "schizophrenia-
like" disorders, point towar, at most, a possible precipitory role in
the development of these disorders, in a non specific and not
etiologically related manner.



Check out
FLASHBACKS:
  Quoted without permission from 'Licit and Illicit Drugs,' written by
Edward M. Brecher and the editors of Consumer Reports. ISBN: 0-316-15340-0

  A simple explanation of LSD flashbacks, and of their changed character
after 1967, is available.  According to this theory, almost everybody
suffers flashbacks with or without LSD.  Any intense emotional
experience--the death of a loved one, the moment of discovery that one is in
love, the moment of an automobile smashup or of a narrow escape from a
smashup--may subsequently and unexpectedly return vividly to consciousness
weeks or months later.  Since the LSD trip is often an intense emotional
experience, it is hardly surprising that it may similarly "flash back."

 

"Post-traumatic stress disorder has been commonly associated with war
veterans, but it also affects victims of disasters and violence... Experts
estimate that 1% of the population suffers from the disorder."
---LA Times, Feb 18 1992, p A3, "Journey For Better Life Hell For Some Women."



---------------------------

My opinion:
I think that psychedelics and even marijuana can trigger schizophrenic underlying illness as i've seen  HEALTHY people 'never come back.'  They just wernt the same after abusing drugs.  But then again whose the same after abusing anything.

I personally have never felt schizophrenic on mushrooms.  But LSD is a different story.  When your tripping really hard, and your like, "i'm never comming down."  This is psychedelic induced schizophrenia.  Imagine if you really never came back
:cool:sweeeet :smirk:


--------------------
_______________________________________
CSC


Life's a garden, Dig it!
~Joe Dirt

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