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Obama takes step over the line that separates government from private industry - Obamunism
    #10131628 -

Welcome Comrades.

I am your benevolent government.

We are building a workers paradise so we all can share in the greatness that is America.

Join us or else....

From The LA Times -


http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-gm-policy31-2009mar31,0,6371904.story

Quote:
Obama takes step over the line that separates government from private industry

His automaker bailout plan wades into 'industrial policy,' in which government officials, not business executives or the free market, decide what products a firm makes and how it charts its future.

By Peter Wallsten and Jim Tankersley

March 31, 2009

Reporting from Washington — President Obama's plan to save failing U.S. automakers -- and make them the instruments for creating a cleaner, greener transportation system -- marked a major step across the line that traditionally separates government from private industry.

His announcement Monday of a new position on bailing out Detroit went beyond a desire to be sure tax dollars were not wasted in bailing out struggling companies. It put the Obama administration squarely in the position of adopting a so-called industrial policy, in which government officials, not business executives or the free market, decided what kinds of products a company would make and how it would chart its future.

His automotive task force concluded, for example, that the Chevy Volt, the electric car being developed by General Motors Corp., would be too expensive to survive in the marketplace. It declared that GM was still relying too much on high-margin trucks and SUVs, and that Chrysler's best hope was to merge with a foreign automaker, Fiat.

Judgments like those are usually rendered in corporate boardrooms or announced in quarterly reports. But this time they were coming directly from the White House.

The notion that it was the president, not car company executives, who would pick such a course drew immediate criticism, especially from conservatives.

"When did the president become an expert in strategic corporate management?" said Rep. Tom Price (R-Ga.), chairman of the conservative Republican Study Committee. "The federal government is famous for its mismanagement, yet this administration continues to demonstrate its certainty that Washington always knows best."

Sen. Bob Corker, a Tennessee Republican, called it a "power grab" that "should send a chill through those who believe in free enterprise."

And Rush Limbaugh declared in his daily radio broadcast, "There's always been a line, ladies and gentlemen, over which no president would cross with respect to the distinction between the public and private sectors. Obama has now crossed that line where there is no limit to government's destruction of private activity or control over it."

Rep. Jane Harman (D-Venice) defended the administration, suggesting that Detroit had had its chance. "My feeling is that we were too tolerant for too long and this is the tough medicine the taxpayer wants. And we have to reinvent our auto industry, or it will die."

Other Obama defenders pointed to historic precedents for intervening in the auto industry.

Obama's actions are "consistent with the pattern of presidents acting during economic crises," said Allan Lichtman, a professor at American University and an expert on the presidency. "And it's absolutely consistent with patterns of presidents intervening to make sure major components of the economy don't fail."

With farmers crippled by the Depression, for example, Franklin D. Roosevelt put in place limitations on agricultural production in a bid to boost farm prices. In 1971 Richard Nixon sought to roll back inflation by imposing a freeze on wages and prices. During the Reagan administration, bank regulators ousted 10 members of the board of Continental Illinois Bank of Chicago, the nation's eighth-largest bank and recipient of a federal bailout.

Nevertheless, the White House was admittedly wading into politically challenging waters Monday. Administration officials sought to downplay the notion of an Obama-led takeover of the auto industry.

"We inherited a really difficult situation, and so in that context are focused on the best options consistent with the president's goal of supporting the auto industry and being good stewards of taxpayer resources," said one senior administration official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity despite conveying official White House talking points.

The official sought to distance the auto industry assessments from the administration's environmental agenda, adding that the carmakers were "positioned to lead in helping manufacture the next generation of clean vehicles."

"The government doesn't have any interest or capacity to re-engineer these companies," the official said.

Beyond such denials, the administration's aim of reshaping the industry in what it considers a better form could be seen in documents released Monday by the White House. They summarized the conclusions of Obama's auto task force, which has spent weeks consulting with outside analysts and experts assessing the viability of plans submitted last month by GM and Chrysler.

The task force noted, for instance, that GM earns a "disproportionate share of its profits from high-margin trucks and SUVs and is thus vulnerable to energy cost-driven shifts in consumer demand." Moreover, according to the summary, "absent the successful introduction of a number of new-generation nameplates," GM is "more vulnerable" to heightened fuel-efficiency standards.

Such heightened mileage standards are being pushed by the Obama administration.

Some participants in the deliberations, speaking on the condition of anonymity because of White House restrictions on allowing people to speak freely, said the task force operated from an underlying belief that consumers would ultimately be attracted to more fuel-efficient cars despite current data showing many such cars languishing on dealer lots.

"Philosophically they blame these companies for not having produced enough responsible small vehicles," said Dan Luria, research director at the Michigan Manufacturing Technology Center, a consulting firm for automaker suppliers. "But they don't deal with the fact that the companies would have been insolvent years earlier if they had done that.

"As bad as the management of these companies has been, it's dwarfed by the complete lack of courage in U.S. energy policy, which is what created the problem in the first place."






I wonder if all of the union workers who voted for obama will ever understand what they did.

All this seems to me to be is consolidation of major business under government power. Someone needs to ask Obama 'Could you exactly define the line where Capitalism ends and Socialism begins?'


--------------------

Song of the week, click Huey:



Song of the week list in journal.


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Re: Obama takes step over the line that separates government from private industry - Obamunism [Re: Tedwilto]
    #10131672 -

technically Hitler did fix and improve Volkswagen. :smirk:


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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Re: Obama takes step over the line that separates government from private industry - Obamunism [Re: lonestar2004]
    #10132001 -

This article seems to be taking things to extremes...

to Quote it:
"His automotive task force concluded, for example, that the Chevy Volt, the electric car being developed by General Motors Corp., would be too expensive to survive in the marketplace. It declared that GM was still relying too much on high-margin trucks and SUVs, and that Chrysler's best hope was to merge with a foreign automaker, Fiat."

Hasn't the free market already decided most of these types of things already? The free market has decided that GM hasn't been capable of keeping itself afloat anyway, so having the government determine these things doesn't seem so Communistic as it would seem.

My major problem is that this entire process is the Red Scare 2.0. What the government is doing only mimics those old Totalitarian Communist governments used to do. But they're very separate things.

I wish we could move away from the Red talk about actually focus on the details of a plan like this. But the article doesn't really get into whether these changes the government is making are sound ones, it's just, "ZOMG, REDPINKO COMMIE!"

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Re: Obama takes step over the line that separates government from private industry - Obamunism [Re: Twirling]
    #10132216 -

What happens when he starts making the wrong decisions though?


--------------------

Song of the week, click Huey:



Song of the week list in journal.


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Re: Obama takes step over the line that separates government from private industry - Obamunism [Re: Tedwilto]
    #10132292 -

You could say that about GM & the past 20 years. That's led to the point where they either go out of business, or have the government "invest" in them to get them kick started again.

It's a good question, though. Just because the management at GM wasn't making the right decisions, doesn't mean the government will either. Going by examples given, it's hard not disagree. I mean, GM has entirely too long relied on SUVs & Mini-Vans, and has the design styling team of those knock-off Hotwheels cars that sell for like 10 for a dollar.


GM could have done what Ford decided to do - reject government money and reorganize. It will be interesting to see which companies do better, given that they're starting from very similar conditions & problems.


Oddly enough, if you want to support America, buy a Honda. My Mazda was actually built in America. That's the odd thing about "Buying American". Doesn't mean what it used to.


--------------------
The very nature of experience is ineffable; it transcends cognitive thought and intellectualized analysis. To be without experience is to be without an emotional knowledge of what the experience translates into. The desire for the understanding of what life is made of is the motivation that drives us all. Without it, in fear of the experiences what life can hold is among the greatest contradictions; to live in fear of death while not being alive.


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Re: Obama takes step over the line that separates government from private industry - Obamunism [Re: Twirling]
    #10137142 -

Twirling said:
The free market has decided that GM hasn't been capable of keeping itself afloat anyway, so having the government determine these things doesn't seem so Communistic as it would seem.




the free market decided a lot of businesses should have gone
under, instead obama and the gang voted for bail outs, that
seems to be where the communism starts


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Re: Obama takes step over the line that separates government from private industry - Obamunism [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #10137295 -

taxpayers giving money to banks so they can loan it back to taxpayers is communism? :smirk:


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Obama takes step over the line that separates government from private industry - Obamunism [Re: Twirling]
    #10137468 -

Twirling said:
You could say that about GM & the past 20 years.





No, GM for the last 20 years has spent its own money.  I don't care what they do and its none of my buisness.


When the government is giving them money, that they skillfully demand and create a need for by refusing to do the sensible thing and file for bankruptcy, it is my buisness.



Obama is a fool.  I would love to see evidence that the government can do a better job at judging profitability then GM can.


This is what's wrong with the bailouts:  you create an entitlement for the government to fuck with your shit, since they gave you so much.

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Re: Obama takes step over the line that separates government from private industry - Obamunism [Re: johnm214]
    #10144729 -

Quote:
Tedwilto said: We are building a workers paradise so we all can share in the greatness that is America.



So would you suggest we follow Ron Paul's advice and let the economy tank to levels never seen in our lifetime?  I understand that would stop our massive debt from growing, but how would it help pay down the debt we already have and how would we deal with the unemployment that would result?  Both solutions suck bad, but one keeps us above water.

Quote:
Tedwilto said: I wonder if all of the union workers who voted for obama will ever understand what they did.



You mean saving their own jobs?  :shrug:

Quote:
Tedwilto said: 'Could you exactly define the line where Capitalism ends and Socialism begins?'



Who cares?  Wouldn't it be better if America still had an auto company or two after the recession/depression is over???  GM failed because the world wants more fuel efficient cars.  Obama will give them another chance to deliver.

Quote:
johnm214 said: Obama is a fool.  I would love to see evidence that the government can do a better job at judging profitability then GM can.




Me too.  Let's see if the Government makes GM profitable when they couldn't do it themselves.

Quote:
johnm214 said: This is what's wrong with the bailouts:  you create an entitlement for the government to fuck with your shit, since they gave you so much.



The Government only bails out companies that would otherwise go out of business.  I don't understand how any company that would otherwise be dead can complain about the Government "Fucking with your shit".  At least you're still alive.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Obama takes step over the line that separates government from private industry - Obamunism [Re: lonestar2004]
    #10146538 -

lonestar2004 said:
taxpayers giving money to banks so they can loan it back to taxpayers is communism? :smirk:




tax payers arent giving money to the banks, you just knock off that pinko commie bullshit

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Re: Obama takes step over the line that separates government from private industry - Obamunism [Re: Tedwilto]
    #10154911 -

Tedwilto said:
Obama takes step over the line that separates government from private industry.

His automaker bailout plan wades into 'industrial policy,' in which government officials, not business executives or the free market, decide what products a firm makes and how it charts its future.

....

All this seems to me to be is consolidation of major business under government power. Someone needs to ask Obama 'Could you exactly define the line where Capitalism ends and Socialism begins?'




I am amazed at your rhetoric.  What line is there that is "traditional"??  It wasn't until the 18th century that "private industry" began to substantially exist in the West.  And hell, classical liberalism didn't gain a foothold in real economies until 150 years ago.  And, if you take a good look at the history since "free markets", you would be hard-pressed to define ANY period of time as clearly possessing government and industry separation.  Can you?  I would be surprised.  Instead of asking a rhetorical question, why not produce something besides ignorant fear?  (Now that's a rhetorical question with positive influence!)

The goal of government influence in the economy and industry is to promote national growth and competitiveness.  Is letting the auto industry "tank" a good thing?

On a side note, can we all end this neo-liberal free market bullshit discourse?  We're all reasonably intelligent, aren't we?  Can't we all see it's bullshit?  Can't we see that the cherry picked use of the "free market" ideology is always used to create more enormous separations of wealth?    The discourse of economic neo-liberalism is a tool of the minority upper class in class warfare.


--------------------
"During evolutionary time, the avenues of possible progress have become progressively restricted, until today only one remains...Man...has been suddenly appointed managing director of the biggest business of all, the business of evolution."

Life begins the day you start a garden.

Check out my trade list in My Journal...

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Re: Obama takes step over the line that separates government from private industry - Obamunism [Re: Delta9Hippie]
    #10154934 -

Delta9Hippie said:
Can't we see that the cherry picked use of the "free market" ideology is always used to create more enormous separations of wealth?    The discourse of economic neo-liberalism is a tool of the minority upper class in class warfare.



Dead on.  :thumbup:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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