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Musical Mania
    #9966090 -

There is a unique kind of euphoric intensity that defines the enjoyment of a favorite piece of music, beyond the effects of the most rousing images or words (each of which have their own associated euphoria).

Some people speak of hearing greatness on the first listen, but I find that I have heard the piece at least once or twice before the state of mania sets in. I listen to music alone for the most part, and often a chance listen in someone else's presence sets me off and gets me hooked. Or I'll simply be in a receptive mood or unusually attentive compared to when I tend to put something on and do something else.

It takes over instantly, the urge to listen overtakes all other lusts and the memory dominates the everyday, driving toward the next listen. Nuances are noticed and defined and then on replay recognized, and it feels like the recognizance is a large source of the music's power. Yes, the guitar comes in right there and sounds just like that! Yes, the electronic tones have that somber timbre and that progression, the vocals hit that soaring high note as the drums stop there! I know that I love what's coming and I love it when it comes. I close my eyes and silently spazz out, maybe headbang or do a dance, as chills take my skin and heat takes my brain. It's quite amazing when enhanced by LSD but produces emotional ecstasy as a drug on its own, drug-like in that its glory seems almost artificial in contrast to what preceded for much of the day yet revealing the preceding as more artificial for its lack of this feeling.

When the mass distribution of music is considered, such devoted, all-consuming enjoyment could be considered a form of mind-reading, telepathy enabled by technological reproduction, reproduction of these same wave patterns in millions of listeners in different places at different times, processing and feeling near-identical things which are associated with different lives yet which through the music are all drawn together and connected. Some of my most powerful empathic feelings arise when I come to enjoy a piece of music recommended by a friend or someone I didn't know very well, maybe moreso when the piece is not initially appreciated.

The question is: is our relationship and response to music necessarily dependent on what music is (the particularity of sound waves entering the brain, some power intrinsic to sound or vibration) or is that form of mania possible in other arenas? What are your stories and your speculations?

(I play a gig tonight. Performance is quite something itself, but a good deal different in my experience than the listeners' mania I'm speaking of.)


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No debe haber separación, no puede haber definición.

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Re: Musical Mania [Re: zannennagara]
    #9967027 -

It depends on what your style is, or really your basic disposition.

My mania for the last few months has been for the late John Coltrane.

Anything after A love supreme, or anything post 1965. Not many people realize or rather would not wish to acknowledge this, but John Coltrane was experimenting with acid in the last years of his life, and in my mind its no coincidence that his music took the turn that it did.

The repetitive quality you are referring to, the structure of the songs themselves, is worth elaborating on for Coltrane. It isn't necessary for him to have many songs to please me, because one take of a song is going to be completely different than another. Also, I can even listen to the same take many times without it getting old at all, because there is so much depth, so much over my head, or underlying my attention. Really, in the end the structure is barely relevant; especially in his later work, as he would completely deconstruct this to a realm that could only be described as pure impulse... Then he might subtly bring it back.

Its the creative and destructive energy itself that gets me. Coltrane was so far beyond "self expression"; he was simply creative. There is a focus of "character" of course, but it is always found in such an overwhelming flux. The energy builds a particular character like a beautifully fluent language,  and blows it away, where it is more like he is speaking in tongues.

So the repetitive quality; the beat, the character, the song, the identitity; this is also what I am looking for, but the greatest aspect is the bare energetic quality.

I know that not so many people listen to Coltrane around here, but I think if people around here gave him the proper chance, they would find that he really fits a psychedelic disposition. This may sound like a great leap, but I find that this particular energetic quality is very similar to animal collective's abstractions (while also obviously different) a group I know that many people of these forums listen to. So if anyone listens to animal collective and John Coltrane, I would be curious if anyone else sees this connection. 

I am glad you made this post Zannenagra, and I hope my digressions are harmonious to your original post. Ive wanted to share my recent discovery in the music forum, but its really the philosophical and meditative qualities that I am so intrigued to discuss. Plus, nobody would ever check out such a common name, and I would feel like it is necessary to somehow "hype" him. I think if you really get into it, the mania is just energy, and this has nothing to do with being a fan, or fanaticism, though they often come together. For Coltrane it was an exploration, and sharing his path in a sincere way.

There is alot of music that seems nihilistic to me, where I get a general destructive feeling; but with Coltrane, for some reason his creative and destructive poweress I experience differently. I don't know exactly how, its a feeling.

Quote:
I asked John Coltrane to what extent this album was an extension of A Love Supreme. Both albums obviously focus on Coltrane's religious concerns, I use the word "religious" not in any sectarian sense, but rather in the sense that Coltrane's persistent searching in music is simultaneously a searching for meaning
in the world and for his place in the world.

"Once you become aware of this force for unity in life," said Coltrane, "you can't ever forget it. It becomes part of everything you do. In that respect, this is an extension of A Love Supreme since my conception of that force keeps changing shape. My goal in meditating on this through music, however, remains the same. And that is to uplift people, as much as I can. To inspire them to realize more and more of their capacities for living meaningful lives. Because there certainly is meaning to life."

Other than this comment, Coltrane prefers not to be specific about the various sections of the album. He expects that each listener will react in different ways to what he hears. And Coltrane adds that
it doesn't matter what particular religion - if any - a listener professes because "I believe in all religions."
--------------------------------

[Q]...do you feel that you want [your audience] to understand other
things than what you're doing musically, and that you have some responsibility for it? ...Do you make any attempt, or do you feel that you should make any attempt,
to educate your audience in ways that aren't strictly musical?

[Coltrane] Sure, I feel this, and this is one of the things I am concerned about now.
I just don't know how to go about this. I want to find out just how to do it. I think
it's going to have to be very subtle; you can ram philosophies down anybody's throat, and the music is enough. That's philosophy. I think the best thing I can do at this time is to try to get myself in shape and know myself. I believe that will do it, if I really can get to myself and be just as I feel I should be and play it. And I think they'll get it...



Edited by daytripper23 (03/21/09 07:02 PM)

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Re: Musical Mania [Re: zannennagara]
    #9967376 -

Good words and good luck.

WWPS

What would Plato say?


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Re: Musical Mania [Re: zannennagara]
    #9968710 -

zannennagara said:
Nuances are noticed and defined and then on replay recognized, and it feels like the recognizance is a large source of the music's power. Yes, the guitar comes in right there and sounds just like that! Yes, the electronic tones have that somber timbre and that progression, the vocals hit that soaring high note as the drums stop there! I know that I love what's coming and I love it when it comes.


Yes, but at the same time the music cannot be too predictable; I find there exists this sweet spot between complete unrecognizable chaos and monotonous repetition of the same old refrain that allows for maximum musical appreciation.  The most compelling songs for me tend to be the ones that take the longest to grow on the mind--songs that exude catchiness at first listen burn out the most quickly while the harder refrains to get into tend to provide far more complexity and worth in the long run.

What gig/instrument did you play?


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: Musical Mania [Re: zannennagara]
    #9970317 -

As a musician I think there are countless reasons why an individual is attracted to music.  As a string theorist I feel that the "music is in us", where the vibrations of the music combine with the vibrations of our bodies. You will find that many of the most popular tunes, are those that sync up with your heart rate. A recent medical revue states that they have proof that those that play music are less likely to have heart problems.  Strings and membranes may be an answer, But when I play I don't care.

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Re: Musical Mania [Re: zannennagara]
    #9971399 -

Music is the transcendent language of social bonding. We are such profoundly social animals that we become ecstatic to engage in such communication as either sender or receiver.


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Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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Re: Musical Mania [Re: C.M. Mann]
    #9971842 -

C.M. Mann said:
when I play I don't care.


:thumbup:

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Re: Musical Mania [Re: Middleman]
    #9971904 -

:thumbup:

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Re: Musical Mania [Re: C.M. Mann]
    #9971924 -

It's probable that brainwave entrainment technology will become more advanced and we'll have music that really gets us high.

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Re: Musical Mania [Re: Middleman]
    #9972972 -

And it is probable that is just the ground floor!

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Re: Musical Mania [Re: daytripper23]
    #9973197 -

As a saxophonist myself I know Coltrane well, but most of my listening has been his earlier work with Miles Davis and in that period - in fact the latest I have is Love Supreme. I had heard rumors of that being recorded on acid - though it doesn't sound like it to me - but I have been meaning to explore his later works. Thanks for the recommendation - I've downloaded the file and will shortly sign off to give it my full attention.

I hadn't made the connection with Animal Collective, but that comparison is very apt when I think about it. A Love Supreme and Sung Tongs/Feels (haven't heard their latest stuff either) both do have those kind of drones that suddenly swell into altered states of emotion with a thrust of strumming in AC's case or cymbals/drumming/blowing in Coltrane's, a quick shift in direction although not much has changed.

To be honest I've generally shied away from Coltrane - he's intimidating, technically, to a sax player, and his melodies defy the rock conventions I grew up with (though as I think of it they antedate those rock conventions). As a solo horn player, though, when I practice alone, this kind of free, energetic, unstructured expression is what feels natural, though I'm nowhere near his level of ingenuity or ability. I am going to explore him more on your advice - see, this kind of sharing is part of the experience for me.


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No debe haber separación, no puede haber definición.

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Re: Musical Mania [Re: zannennagara]
    #9973221 -

Cool, very cool.


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Re: Musical Mania [Re: deCypher]
    #9973375 -

deCypher said:
Yes, but at the same time the music cannot be too predictable; I find there exists this sweet spot between complete unrecognizable chaos and monotonous repetition of the same old refrain that allows for maximum musical appreciation.  The most compelling songs for me tend to be the ones that take the longest to grow on the mind--songs that exude catchiness at first listen burn out the most quickly while the harder refrains to get into tend to provide far more complexity and worth in the long run.


Ha, see, much of what was going through my mind in making the original post was my introduction to Filosofem, and that did grab me on first listen, and its melodies are very simple yet persistently intoxicating. What was interesting for me was to consider how I might have just passed over it by having it on in the background from some random tip - but when given a direct seal of approval by someone who did already enjoy it greatly, I was profoundly affected.

You make a good point, though, music that feels too plainly manufactured for the desired audience and effect is off-putting, void, transparent, boring. Personally I haven't noticed much disillusionment with songs that do grab me right away, however. I do appreciate a good challenge, but I'll take all comers.

Quote:
What gig/instrument did you play?


As aforementioned, saxophone, alto and tenor, screaming and growling over piano, bass, guitar, congas and timbales for a wall-to-wall horde of salsa dancers in a low-lit club well after sundown. I repeat myself too much, but it's always fun and always a rush, particularly to see and hear people responding (even if only the other sax player or the timbalist). Thanks for the wishes, MM, it went well.


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No debe haber separación, no puede haber definición.

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Re: Musical Mania [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #9973499 -

C.M. Mann, Tchan, Middleman, your ideas are much of what I wanted to explore here, particularly the idea that music in itself possesses a special transcendent property, a particular vibration that does get us high that other modes of expression/communication cannot do the same way.

Partly I'm considering the ideal of non-attachment in stark contrast to this intense adulation of the sonic vibration - one should be able to reach such states in all settings, one might say - and while I scoff at the idea of downplaying music, the advice seems good, the ability to find peace or transcendent connection without the dependence on (or maybe the substitute of) music.

Can we do this in other ways? Should we want to? Etc.

(Lakefingers: no love for Kraftwerk?)


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No debe haber separación, no puede haber definición.

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Re: Musical Mania [Re: zannennagara]
    #9973543 -

Awesome, horn players are really interesting people to me, especially the trippy ones!

And yea I can only imagine your intimidation,  I guess that part of the appeal to me is I know I will never be able to physically accomplish this particular "swell" on my instruments. I play acoustic string instruments, piano and guitar, where by comparison you essentially just hit a string, expecting a relatively louder or softer reaction from the instrument. Pretty basic in comparison. So its really outside my spectrum of expression in many ways, so I guess there is no pressure. BUT then again, there is so much pressure that I feel utterly subjected to! I don't know how you properly describe the technique, but what just takes me over, is when he builds into this high pitched wail, and suddenly shifts and lets it go in a run. Its such a release!

But I don't think its just me projecting this as someone having a unique or particular appreciation for horn players. I really suspect that he was doing something truly transcendent; like a kind of musical shaman or something. By comparison, John Zorn is another horn player I really dig, but the mania I get from his music is totally different, like I want to throw a chair out the window or something. Its similar, but the reaction is begging something physical (wherein I usually do not toss a chair out the window) rather than metaphysical. I would say I am a big fan or fanatic for the music of John Zorn, but I feel that Coltrane is somehow beyond this kind of devotion.

With all that said, I am just trying to describe something that is largely over my head, and beyond words anyhow.

Edited by daytripper23 (03/14/09 10:52 PM)

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Re: Musical Mania [Re: zannennagara]
    #9973567 -

Ever look into the http://www.mozarteffect.com/ by Don Campbell?  Some pretty impressive science behind what music can do and does for us.  Trance states are easy to come by via auditory stimulation.

As I alluded earlier, music is so powerful Plato put all kinds of restrictions on it in The Republic.

I like complexity in music and thought.  I'm attracted to Mozart in the same way I'm attracted to Aristotle.

Jazz can be great or suck, like any type of music.  I never dug Miles, at least what I heard.  Too "far out maaaaaaan" if you know what I mean.


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Re: Musical Mania [Re: zannennagara]
    #9973965 -

I would rather talk music, it's my favorite!  I heard that when Davis went to a Hendrix concert and saw how many screaming fans were in the place, he changed.  In his mind he altered his sound to attract those screaming fans. If he did acid (and I think he did, I heard the same story), He did it during this period.  I play guitar through a pro tools system. One thing I do is make it sound like a sax and jam with Coltrane. The normal way you get around a guitar changes when you copy a sax. I use this as an exercise much like riffs in sixes.  There is a lot of music from this era that I listen to, but what I'd rather do is jam with the sax. I play blues,rock,jazz,metal. From Robert Cray to Stevie Ray Vaughan to Dime Bag.

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Re: Musical Mania *DELETED* [Re: zannennagara]
    #9974624 -

Post deleted by Lakefingers

Reason for deletion: .

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Re: Musical Mania *DELETED* [Re: daytripper23]
    #9974678 -

Post deleted by Lakefingers

Reason for deletion: .

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Re: Musical Mania [Re: Lakefingers]
    #9975428 -

from the sounds of it, many of you should look more into the band Phish

what made them so popular to their phans, and not the mainstream, were their ability to travel on musical expeditions, with many different varieties of styles and patterns, all within a single journey.

The connection between the band and audience is so amazing, you can feel it though recordings of past shows.


their stuff is so overwhelmingly amazing, only true musicians and music appreciators can understand what they are saying

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