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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Music = Math + Emotion ( = The Development of Man...?)
    #3711281 - 02/01/05 02:22 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Music = Math + Emotion ( = The Development of Man...?)


Please hear me out....    :grin:

As captive listeners of music we all are....  I would say that everybody on this entire planet (if they have the ability to hear it) has at least ONE form, or style of music / musical expression that they enjoy.... 

It is not weather you like or enjoy music, it is more a matter of what form of musical expression one "prefers to indulge in"....  I have never ever heard of anyone NOT liking music....?
 
It is pretty crazy to think that there are prolly~ no two people on the planet that will have the exact same appreciation and like-tastes in music....  There may be "overlapping of likes", but there are always going to be "shades" of style that will be of disagreement in individual pallet choice between two people.... 


Sometimes what one chooses is based on "mood"....  Fair statement...?   

Feeling aggressive :evil: Well I got a recipe that works for me....    Just add: 
1 - ounce of Pantera,
1 - of yer~ oldest cobs of Korn,
1 - hold the Mudvayne....
=  Yeeaahh, that feels better....  :yesnod:  (I know, your opinions may vary)

Feeling a mellow yellow evening....?  Just add:
1 - Perfect Circle,
1 -  Enigma,  (Yeah, I like em', and don't care what you think...! :tongue: )
1 - dash of Pink Floyd
1 - Book of Shadows by Zakk Wylde....
=  Yeeaahh, just about there....

Anyway, you get my drift....
Everybody has their own prescription or perspective of personal opinions on musical likes and dislikes....  Makes me wonder how ethnic, culture, and genetics have an underlying influence on what each person is drawn to appreciate - in terms of specific scales ond modes used in musical composition, or shades of "musical emotion"....

Is it simply determined by exposure....?

When I grew up, I had no choice of what I listened too (not that I am complaining), and listened to "classic Rock" music from the late 60's thru early 70's, on up, because I was a child and my parents ruled the roost - and that is what they listened too....  There was only one radio in the house, and this was normal (back then was not like it is now)....  :smirk:  For real, listening to;  Led Zep, The Eagles, Wild Cherry, Hendrix, Elvis, and all that stuff was cool.... 

The Buddy Holly - Beach Boy bullshit got old, but I will be damned if I don't know every fuckin word to every fuckin song....!
W00000T W000000T....   
I guess the big joke is on me, because that shit is forever burned into my brain till the day I die.... 
It is not a matter of wanting to forget it, cause it ain't goin' nowhere, ever....

Blah blah blah....  :blah:


Is music what tamed, or developed the beast known as man....?    Perhaps both...?  Eeeehhhh....??


Since the topic questioning emotions like "love" have come up on this forum, seemingly as quoted from my arrival "post" here in S&P  :smirk:  I thought of a concept that might be worthy of presenting - even if it doesn't mean anything....  would it be conceivable to compare/study one's musical preferences to one's emotional capacity within...?    Maybe even deeper, and trying to measure a favor to certain modal arrangements, measured down to specific keys and what "feeling" is felt by the individual....?  Would it be too subjective to the "mood/mindset" of the person listening at the time....?

Is it conceivable that music was the very first form of language, and self expression...?  Perhaps starting by banging rocks together in a pattern...?  And now flourishing into a prismatic soundscape of frequency pulsing modal bombardment - as the music we know today....  Is the exposure to one's life thru music at all an influence to emotion, and has it been the factor to which man has developed his emotional senses throughout the development of the higher mind - as it relates to the development of musical skills, style, and exposure...? 

There seems to be a parallel development in emotion Vs music, and we have come a long way since man has expressed himself thru a simple:  "Grunt grunt grunt"....  :lol: 

So is it impression or expression in development....?  Or perhaps both simultaneously....?  BUT, which one has more influence...?

Does music play a roll in what man is able to perceive as emotion abilities...?  In what you are able to feel, and to what level of appreciation, and to what you do actually perceive as feeling...?


This might be the time to mention the part that seems to have a third parallel to the equation, as it was mentioned in the title of this thread....  Music is math....  A mathematical expression of emotion....    Do I dare to say such a word as passion....?


That's all I got.....    :tongue:
Care to indulge or integrate your thoughts...?    :grin:


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Music = Math + Emotion ( = The Development of Man...?) [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3711386 - 02/01/05 02:59 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I just cared to say I enjoyed that and I too equate music/sound wavelengths with emotional ones so I understood your insight and can see it too yet, I don't understand how math fits in. How do math and music overlap the way you see it? Is this related to harmonics in numbers? I'm open and interested to better seeing your full insight.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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Offlinedr0mni
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Re: Music = Math + Emotion ( = The Development of Man...?) [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3711438 - 02/01/05 03:24 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

My girlfriend is studying classical piano for her third year in college. She's taught me a lot a bout chord progression and such. Basically, any general emotion can be conjured up by a simple progression of only three to five chords (inverted and modulated to add variety...). And besides the math of whole/half step relationships there is the simple math of beats. All this combines into infinitely complex systems of tonal and percussions rhythm and interpretation/association.

I draw. I draw in a style of inter-related lines that lead into one another. I realized that my style of drawing is just as distinct as (and looks very similar to) my handwriting. The rhythms and curves of my pen strokes are expressive of my "inner rhythm". Music is another expression of this inner rhythm. The rhythm of the sine wave and rhythms of the world around us. The rhythm of God.

First our music started out as pure rhythm. This is known as "tribal" music. This can still be found in African music (including the c-RAP that is slung to the masses through major record labels in this sad, sad era of popular music). Then it advanced on to melody. Next came the science of melody and rhythm which took form as classical. Now we are at a time when we can create music with computers, acheiving mathematical perfection with even more complex rhythms based around the strangely simple beats found in techno/electronica. Our inner rythm as a species hasn't necessarily changed as a species, just our means of expressing it. For it is the rhythm of consciousness, the rhythm of God.

But really, music is just going to be music, no matter what form it takes. For it is only an effect, not a cause. Energy always takes the path of least resistance, and so does music.


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Music = Math + Emotion ( = The Development of Man...?) [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3711501 - 02/01/05 03:45 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

For the most part, the math in music is all derived from 12 notes and their arrangements within a given piece....  Used individually, in unison, in chorus, chordal harmony, in dissonant structure of tones in diminished scales, "happy" uplifting feelings of the major scales, "saddening" feelings of minor scales, "mystical" feelings in minor harmonic scales, and so on - to express in an infinate number of mathematical combination that can almost be analyzed and seen as "formulas or equations"....    There are some traditional styles of music that even break it down into semi-tones, as seen/heard in certain Eastern styles....    Written music is very mathematical in form and structure - times signatures to give a "feel", and dancing melodies and perhaps harmonies to bring that "feeling" to "life"....  Each mode of a scale seems to have a different "flavor" or "emotion" to them....    I personally say "emotion" more so, but we will say "flavor" too for the people that are going to argue the concept/existance of emotion....  :tongue: 

What would a movie of today be like if it did not have that "touching" or "saddening" effect with the musical compositions/scores in combination with the specific scene being portrayed on the screen....?  It would not be able to "fully immerse" you into the "mood" or "feeling" intended to be artistically brought across without the carefully integrated the "correct" choice of "mood music" to make you envoke/manifest those same feelings within in unison to the piece of film being experienced....

Anyway, soundwaves and frequencies are part of the math of sound, and it does relate to the notes chosen in composition, but I was more thinking the integration of scales, modes, chords, and chordal progressions as the math that may relate to emotion....    :grin:


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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OfflineZekebomb
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Re: Music = Math + Emotion ( = The Development of Man...?) [Re: dr0mni]
    #3711551 - 02/01/05 03:59 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

dr0mni said: Basically, any general emotion can be conjured up by a simple progression of only three to five chords (inverted and modulated to add variety...).




you use the words 'basically' and 'simple' here a bit too easily, IMO. you don't just set the inversion/modulation generator on 'randomize' and hit Start. the inversions and modulations, not to mention the three to five chords, are chosen by the composer and his choice is informed by his taste, what he's been exposed to, what his goals are, his level of education/experience/ability, etc. and what is meant by any general emotion?

Quote:

And besides the math of whole/half step relationships there is the simple math of beats.
....
Next came the science of melody and rhythm which took form as classical.




remember, that's just our music, Western music. in China, for example, they use scales where the octave is split differently from how our octave is split. although, it's still math, just different numbers.

Quote:

For it is only an effect, not a cause.




Is that true? in fact, what does it mean?

Quote:

Energy always takes the path of least resistance, and so does music.




that's a good way of putting it, though once again, the quality of 'leastness' is up to taste somewhat


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Music = Math + Emotion ( = The Development of Man...?) [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3711574 - 02/01/05 04:05 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Zekebomb said:
remember, that's just our music, Western music. in China, for example, they use scales where the octave is split differently from how our octave is split. although, it's still math, just different numbers.




Yes yes, I just posted that exact concept in my last post, prolly~ while you were writing your post.... 

Great minds think alike....      :grin:


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OfflineZekebomb
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Re: Music = Math + Emotion ( = The Development of Man...?) [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3711580 - 02/01/05 04:07 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

great behinds stink alike


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Music = Math + Emotion ( = The Development of Man...?) [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3711624 - 02/01/05 04:24 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

:smirk:


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Music = Math + Emotion ( = The Development of Man...?) [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3714054 - 02/01/05 05:37 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Well, this seemed to have sunk like an anchor in the abyss....

Is this not S&P type of material/concepts...?


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Offlinedr0mni
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Re: Music = Math + Emotion ( = The Development of Man...?) [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3715894 - 02/01/05 10:51 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

yes phantomcat, I forgot to mention about how eastern-style musics use (what we would call) quarter and sixteenth step notes. Thus the wierd ass melodies. I think that this could be perfect material for the s&p forum, if the thread doesn't get derailed.

Zekebomb, I'm dissapointed that you would nitpick at my vocab like that. I haven't been a regular at this board for very long, but I do enjoy your posts and respect you a lot.

When I say "basically" I just mean that I'm not going to write some long ass post with a bunch of useless details that won't make anything easier to understand. In other words, "in a nutshell". And even though inversions and modulations may not be thrown together randomly, they are still usually variations on simple chord progressions.

"For it is only an effect, not a cause". When I say this I mean that human interpretation of rhythms that become music is a result of human consciousness. Rhythms have always been here, music has not. I don't know if it's a 'fact'. I haven't done experiments or extensive research on the subject. I'm just saying what I know based on what I've experianced.

"that's a good way of putting it, though once again, the quality of 'leastness' is up to taste somewhat". Sure it is but I think we can all agree that a pop/folk music jingle containing a few chords is more practical for people to express their "inner rhythm" than a half-hour symphony for which you must recieve extensive education to even comprehend the mechanics of. That is why I say that music will be music no matter what form it takes.

I find it frustrating and counterproductive to have to re-explain everything I say in a thousand different ways just so everyone doesn't misinterpret what I say. I don't mean to get testy with you, but it just bugs the shit out of me!


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Offlineincubaby_421
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Re: Music = Math + Emotion ( = The Development of Man...?) [Re: dr0mni]
    #3716943 - 02/02/05 02:07 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

floating around in my brain... trying to think about another thing, than that one thought you know im considering, what if what you thought, about everyhting i think i thought i was, was nothing more than my cerrebellum slobbering?!?! azwethinkweism should be a topic we all can trust, youll know your on it when your brain wont stop to take a break, so when doughnut boy comes asking around trying to figure out somethinf new, you just smile and say "pardon you!?!" i was sifting through some particles and farcing through some folds, i stumbled upon a brain fart which melts away the molds, so i think upon that ponder while im pondering the thought. i think i though i saw an azwethinkweis, looking like we think we do (like we think we do) what if what you thought, about everyhting you think you thought you were, was just an illusion rappidly crumbling?!?! azwethinkweism is hard to think about, but simple to trust, youll know your on it when your brain wint stop to take a break, so when doughnut bot comes sniffin around trying to figure out something new, you just luagh and say "PARDON YOU!"-azwethinkweis-incubus-fungus amongus

im sure all rights are reserved and some shit.


--------------------
"yet the more i dig, the more i consume, the more i unfold... the less protected i feel.
i am the spit on the hair of the son of an electron, swimming around the nucleus of a cell inside the sperm of a killer bee, and my purpose is as nebulous as why weve been bestowed with the capacity to give a shit" Brandon Boyd



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OfflineZekebomb
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Re: Music = Math + Emotion ( = The Development of Man...?) [Re: dr0mni]
    #3718398 - 02/02/05 11:47 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

au contraire, my fine feathered friend. I wasn't simply nitpicking your vocab--I disagreed with you on some points, and so I raised those points. I'll bring more when I have time

edit: I guess, since I think of myself as a 'composer of music', that my knee jerked when you made it sound so simple. my apologies


Edited by Zekebomb (02/02/05 11:49 AM)


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Offlinedr0mni
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Re: Music = Math + Emotion ( = The Development of Man...?) [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3718786 - 02/02/05 01:36 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Well if you disagree, that's fine. Apology accepted.

You write music? I write some songs on the guitar (not recently though). I prefer to draw though. My g/f practices her piano and studies theory for like six hours a day, every day. She is so driven and dedicated and shit, it's crazy! She gets so pissed when my stoner friends create uncoordinated cacophony on electric guitars and keyboards and then try to tell her that "real" music is "just like a feeling man, that you gotta just flow with..." LOL!


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OfflineA010011000111
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Re: Music = Math + Emotion ( = The Development of Man...?) [Re: dr0mni]
    #4266705 - 06/07/05 06:29 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

That is a good mathematical interpretation
"Music = Math + Emotion ( = The Development of Man...?)"


The only equation all of you need to know is
Music = Good


Music is self defined. You say what Your music is. You define good. you are the individual, taste, experience, memories. Maybe similarities, but never an exact reproduction of an individual.

My music makes me feel all of my emotions. It is also math, but then again i was never a good math student. i do not understand it very well; i wish i did. But nonetheless im trying not to stray from what im trying to say:

Music = Good


--------------------
You can get a power chord tangled up in a blanket pretty good. you just gotta pull it out.


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Re: Music = Math + Emotion ( = The Development of Man...?) [Re: A010011000111]
    #4267181 - 06/07/05 11:42 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

You also cant knock the beach boys in your first post.


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Re: Music = Math + Emotion ( = The Development of Man...?) [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #4267259 - 06/07/05 12:20 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

music is the food of love

and love makes the world go around

god is love

...doesn't that heartbeat feel good :laugh:


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Re: Music = Math + Emotion ( = The Development of Man...?) [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #4269427 - 06/07/05 09:59 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

psilocyberin said:
You also cant knock the beach boys in your first post.




Yeah, they did make the song "Good Vibrations"....  :wink:

Fractal vibrations, as it were....   
Interesting to know that within every single note resides the tones and harmonics of every other tonal note....   
All as one, within one - but still distinctive as one individual.... 


:sun:


--------------------
Uni-VersALL      MasterPeace
eMotive  :sun: Divinity NowThere Infinity :sun:  eMelody


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OfflineA010011000111
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Re: Music = Math + Emotion ( = The Development of Man...?) [Re: eMotionALLmotion]
    #4276497 - 06/09/05 05:07 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

What do you mean by "the tones and harmonics of every other tonal note..."?


--------------------
You can get a power chord tangled up in a blanket pretty good. you just gotta pull it out.


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OfflineTheCow
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Re: Music = Math + Emotion ( = The Development of Man...?) [Re: eMotionALLmotion]
    #4277498 - 06/09/05 09:39 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

eMotionALLmotion said:
Quote:

psilocyberin said:
Interesting to know that within every single note resides the tones and harmonics of every other tonal note....   
All as one, within one - but still distinctive as one individual.... 
:sun:



What does that mean?
Or were you just talking, and hoping no one would call you on that.


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Re: Music = Math + Emotion ( = The Development of Man...?) [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #4277540 - 06/09/05 09:48 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

One thing I don't really get is blues/R&R/boogie and all other music based on blues scale

It sounds great, I love it, I love to play it on keyboards and piano. I get into a trance.

but it provokes strangest reactions:
the only association I can think of is the word "cool". It's not beautifull, it's not happy, it's not sad, it's just cool

and it makes you make strange faces while listening to, similar to orgasm


so what's up with blues scale music? Why is it so drastically different from all other music. It's like saulty ws sweet.
The rest of music is sweet, while blues scale music is saulty


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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