xswaveyx said:

Well, this is my first time using WBS. This is also my first time using quart jars...and tyvek. So... to get straight to the point, i have been using 6T WBS TEK and it has nothing about simmering the WBS. I read on other topics about people simmering WBS like you would rye pre-sterilization. I have done 7 jars today, soaked for 12 hours, rinse, let drain, loaded and PCed. This batch im doing the same.I still have more to do so might switch it up if someone recommends the simmer.

Also...how wet is too wet? Im reading a lot of ppl saying their WBS was too wet...my jars have gone south from too much water multiple times already so after the soak i have them in a drainer with a fan blowing on low.Is this okay? Again...how wet is too wet? How dry is too dry? Thanks!(wish me luck, ill need it)

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monstermitch said:

xswaveyx said:

Well, this is my first time using WBS. This is also my first time using quart jars...and tyvek. So... to get straight to the point, i have been using 6T WBS TEK and it has nothing about simmering the WBS. I read on other topics about people simmering WBS like you would rye pre-sterilization. I have done 7 jars today, soaked for 12 hours, rinse, let drain, loaded and PCed. This batch im doing the same.I still have more to do so might switch it up if someone recommends the simmer.

Also...how wet is too wet? Im reading a lot of ppl saying their WBS was too wet...my jars have gone south from too much water multiple times already so after the soak i have them in a drainer with a fan blowing on low.Is this okay? Again...how wet is too wet? How dry is too dry? Thanks!(wish me luck, ill need it)

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simmering is in no way necessary.  6T knows what he is talking about.

how wet is too wet?
here is your answer:
WBS moisture test

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monstermitch said:

start over.
toss the wet stuff and start anew.

can you make it too dry...?
well I suppose, but do NOT worry about that now.
worry about not making it too wet.

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  -noobie-

monstermitch said:

I would soak 24-36 hours.
12 could be enough, but then again maybe it won't be.
it's best to just follow directions and not worry about your own
fears that most likely have no basis.

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dcox420 said:

One of the reasons for simmering the WBS is to help with it being too wet. Once you soak for 12 hours bring it to a rolling boil for 10 minutes. After that strain it. The heated WBS will dry alot faster because all the standing water will steam off. This generally will stop any problems you might have with the seed being to wet. The simmering has nothing to do with moisture content of the WBS, thats what the soak is for.

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xswaveyx said:

I heard soaking too long will make the seeds germinate.( i read 8-12 hr soak on 6Ts tek so kinda iffy on a 24 hours soak...maybe ill just soak it for 20 hrs.

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agar said:

Often, new folks jar up wbs/grains WAY TO WET.
Then, PC, with end result being jar content TO WET.
Resulting in poor or stalled colonization.
And, often bacterial CONTAMINATION.

I soak wbs/grain & don't simmer.
I often soak 24/36 hours (sometimes longer).
But, soak in cool temps, around 55F, in winter.
Which retards germination & fermentation.

How long you soak is up to you.
A rule of thumb is this.
Once wbs/grain has expanded 25% (in size).
It is fully hydrated.

Once fully hydrated, I rinse with hot water.
Then drain it.
Sometimes I drain it an hour.
If it still looks/feels to moist.
To moist = glistens with moisture.

I either dump it in a tray.
And, warm the tray in the oven.
Or, use a hair dryer on it, for a few minutes.

How you can TEST it, to be sure it is not TO WET.;)
Is with a large spoon, or your hand.;)
It's SIMPLE.

If you use a large stainless steel spoon, & scoop it full.
Then dump it out, holding the spoon sideways.
If a LOT of wbs/grain... STICKS to the spoon.
It is STILL TO WET.
Example:

3rd picture, with wbs/grain sticking to spoon.
Means..... wbs/grain is TO MOIST to jar up.
So, drain/dry it MORE.


If, only a minuscule amount, clings to the spoon.
(as above)
It's good to jar up & PC.

You can do the same test, with your hand.
Pick up a handful.
Turn hand sideways & open it.

If a LOT clings/sticks to your hand.
IT'S STILL TO MOIST.

If only a miniscule amount sticks/clings to your hand.

IT'S JUST RIGHT.
DRY enough to jar up & PC.

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monstermitch said:

xswaveyx said:

I heard soaking too long will make the seeds germinate.( i read 8-12 hr soak on 6Ts tek so kinda iffy on a 24 hours soak...maybe ill just soak it for 20 hrs.

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...

do you know who 6T is?
he himself soaked for 24-36 hours on a regular basis.

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xswaveyx said:

No, i dont know 6T. I didnt choose his tek because i like the guy, it had nothing to do with him at all.I dont actually...know why thats relivant? Im sure if he made 2 usernames he wouldnt like people broadcasting that its him on both names though, kinda defeats the point.

Regardless, he says right there that seed soaked longer than 12 hours will ferment...i thought it said they would germinate but now that i read it over again i see.Still, he says 24-36hrs is USABLE but not that he does it all the time in the link i have, then he claims differently in the thread you have.I know what i read, nothing more... thats why i was going with the 12 hour soak.

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monstermitch said:

xswaveyx said:

No, i dont know 6T. I didnt choose his tek because i like the guy, it had nothing to do with him at all.I dont actually...know why thats relivant? Im sure if he made 2 usernames he wouldnt like people broadcasting that its him on both names though, kinda defeats the point.

Regardless, he says right there that seed soaked longer than 12 hours will ferment...i thought it said they would germinate but now that i read it over again i see.Still, he says 24-36hrs is USABLE but not that he does it all the time in the link i have, then he claims differently in the thread you have.I know what i read, nothing more... thats why i was going with the 12 hour soak.

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actually he had two user names for a distinct reason.
a "rebirth" if you will.  and he was more than open about it.
6T was his original user name, and agar is the name that followed.
6T has good advice, but if the two ever conflict, agar is the one to follow.

I understand what you are saying.  and let me make things really, really
simple for you.  if agar says to do it, then do it.  if agar ever sends you
in the wrong direction or if his advice ever fails you, then you simply
are not following it correctly or misreading it.  he does not hand out poor
advice, even though some of his posts seem conflicting.

if you ask other people, they will tell you that you want to wait until
you get a slight "fermentation" so that the endospores will germinate
and be more open for the killing during sterilization.

but instead of arguing over agar's conflicting posts, how about I just
give you my advice on what I do:

24 hour soak.  sometimes up to 36.
I've done most likely thousands of jars like this without a problem.
so if I can do it that many times with no problem, I bet you can do it as well,
also without any problem. 

what you want to avoid is your seeds sprouting.
that is the real issue here with soaking and draining.  not 12 vs. 20 vs. 36.
as long as the seeds expand 25% or so in size, it doesn't really matter
how long you want to soak it.  just don't let them sit around long enough
afterwards for them to sprout, then you'll have a mess on your hands.

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