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Vaccines and Autism: The Jury is In
    #9786484 -

Looks like there's no connection between Vaccines and Autism though the relative scarcity of research into the effects of thimerosal still worries me.

--

By Cary O’Reilly

Feb. 12 (Bloomberg) -- Families whose children developed autism after taking vaccine combinations that contained thimerosal aren’t entitled to compensation from a $2.5 billion government trust fund, a panel of court-appointed experts ruled.

Three “special masters” appointed by the U.S. Court of Federal Claims in Washington found today that the families failed to show thimerosal-containing vaccines taken with an “MMR” shot for measles, mumps and rubella can contribute to causing autism, immune-system dysfunction or gastrointestinal dysfunction.

The rulings are a blow to more than 4,800 families who claim their children’s autism was caused by thimerosal. They are seeking compensation from the fund established by Congress in 1996 to shield drug companies such as Sanofi-Aventis and Novartis AG from lawsuits over vaccines the U.S. government requires for children. The money comes from a 75-cent tax on each dose.

“There is no evidence” that ethylmercury in the amounts found in thimerosal-containing vaccines “can damage infant immune systems, or otherwise contribute to autism in any way,” Special Master George Hastings wrote in his finding.

Autism is an umbrella term covering several developmental and communication disorders that affect as many as six of every 1,000 children born in North America. Some parents contend that their children developed autism after receiving the MMR vaccine at the same time as immunizations that contained thimerosal.

Live Virus

The MMR shot contains live, weakened virus strains that impair children’s immune systems, lawyers for the parents said. Government lawyers argued that that there is no science to support the claim.

In the first of the three test cases ruled on today, lawyers for the family of Michelle Cedillo argued that she developed severe autism after being given vaccines containing thimerosal as a toddler. They claimed the combination of MMR and thimerosal caused a breakdown of the immune system and led to her autism.

Cedillo, now 14, can’t speak and is permanently disabled by her condition and will require costly medical care for the rest of her life, according to her lawyers. Her parents claim she was a normal baby until she received a vaccine combination containing thimerosal at age 15 months.

Families Can Appeal

“While Michelle Cedillo has tragically suffered from autism and other severe conditions, the petitioners have failed to demonstrate that her vaccinations played any role at all in causing those problems,” Hastings wrote.

Tom Powers, an attorney who represented the family, said the rulings on the test cases are not the end of the process.

“The special masters are not judges,” and the families may decide to challenge some of their findings, Powers said in an interview. “This may yet be decided by an appeals court.”

Other special masters ruled against families making similar claims in two other cases decided today. The families can appeal.

A 2005 study of 27,749 children at 55 schools in Montreal found no link between mercury in vaccines and autism. In the study at Montreal Children’s Hospital, autism rates rose among school-age children who had been vaccinated as infants, even though the preservative thimerosal wasn’t included in shots given during the last two years of the study period. More than a dozen other studies have also failed to show a link.

“This is a real victory for children and a great day for science,” said Paul Offit, a pediatrician and chief of infectious diseases at Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia.

Measles, Meningitis

Offit said recent outbreaks of measles, whooping cough and meningitis in the U.S. can be attributed at least in part to parents opting not to have their children immunized due to concerns about the risk of autism.

The FDA has been working with vaccine manufacturers since at least 1999 to reduce or eliminate thimerosal. Some flu vaccines, including Fluvirin, made by Novartis’s Chiron unit, and Fluzone, made by Sanofi-Aventis’s Sanofi Pasteur unit, still contain the preservative, according to the FDA.

In a statement, the U.S. Health and Human Services Department, which oversees the FDA, said the medical and scientific communities have found no association between vaccines and autism.

“Hopefully, the determination by the Special Masters will help reassure parents that vaccines do not cause autism,” HHS said.

Wyeth, the maker of vaccines being acquired by Pfizer Inc., rose 51 cents to $43.51 on the New York Stock Exchange. Novartis rose 1.4 percent to 49.52 Swiss francs in Zurich. French vaccines maker Sanofi-Aventis fell 2.4 percent to 46.36 euros in Paris.

The lead case is Cedillo v. HHS, 98vv916, U.S. Court of Federal Claims (Washington).

To contact the reporter on this story: Cary O’Reilly in Washington caryoreilly@bloomberg.net.

Bloomberg


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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Vaccines and Autism: The Jury is In [Re: Diploid]
    #9790202 -

Bullshit! You expect a court to make a rational decision on a matter of science?


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755

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Re: Vaccines and Autism: The Jury is In [Re: Stonehenge] * 1
    #9790210 -

It's not the court but the consensus of a large array of molecular biologists and autism experts that came to this conclusion after reviewing the available evidence on the matter.


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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Vaccines and Autism: The Jury is In [Re: Diploid]
    #9790807 -

There is a lot of evidence to the contrary. The tobacco industry manages to get an array of experts to say cigs are harmless every year.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755

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Re: Vaccines and Autism: The Jury is In [Re: Stonehenge] * 1
    #9790837 -

> There is a lot of evidence to the contrary.

Not really.  The problem is that the symptoms of autism manifest about the same age that children get vaccinations.  Because of this, parents tend to associate the two events as causal.  A child gets more mercury from eating a tuna salad sandwich than from a vaccination containing thimerosal.  However, like Diploid, I would like to see more/continuing research on the effects of thimerosal.


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: Vaccines and Autism: The Jury is In [Re: Seuss]
    #9790921 -

It sounds like the parents' case was pretty weak. 

I'd be interested to see how Alex Jones reacts to this, being that he is a chief instigator in this vaccine = mercury = bad mentality.


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Re: Vaccines and Autism: The Jury is In [Re: Minstrel]
    #9791036 -

It sounds like the parents' case was pretty weak.

Yeah. As I understand it, they played early childhood movies of these kids at the trial. All of them displayed clear signs of nascent autism long before they were vaccinated. Things like repetitive movements, not making eye-contact, and pushing away from anyone trying to hug them or show physical affection. The normal kids in the movies didn't do this, only the claimed "victims" of the vaccines did.

Seems pretty conclusive to me.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Vaccines and Autism: The Jury is In [Re: Diploid]
    #9792464 -

They've actually not used thiomersal for a while now.

Even if there were connections. Do you think they'd admit it? They'd just hire some PhD that went to or has a tenure at some fancy college to make it sound okay. :smirk:


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The U.S. Constitution!

Best WBS Tek
EZ Potato-Honey Agar Tek
MY TRADES

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Re: Vaccines and Autism: The Jury is In [Re: Diploid] * 1
    #9792566 -

Yeah, I was pretty happy when this verdict was reached. It gives me a feeling of relief, knowing that truth and fact can still sometimes beat fear and superstition.


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I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Re: Vaccines and Autism: The Jury is In [Re: mushroomhunter10] * 1
    #9792644 -

Who is "they"? Are you aware that drug companies and government investigators aren't the only ones looking into these things?

Independent researches and universities with no connection to the drug companies or the government all appear to be in agreement. The evidence presented in the trial (which is public record) seems pretty conclusive to me, and trust me when I tell you that "they" can't influence my opinion.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Vaccines and Autism: The Jury is In [Re: Diploid] * 1
    #9792722 -

Not to mention the fact that we now know that Andrew Wakefield accepted money in 1998 to falsify his research and claim that vaccines cause autism. The entire thing was a massive scam by a group of lawyers planning on suing vaccine manufacturers. To continue believing there's a link between vaccines and autism, despite all the evidence to the contrary, just propagates the scam.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Wakefield


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Re: Vaccines and Autism: The Jury is In [Re: zouden]
    #9793147 -

the big problem I have is " available evidence " drug companies are allowed to do there own testing of drugs so any problems found like causing autism can be shredded and hidden this is more of a political problem than anything else for too long of a time our government has seen it's duty as protecting coreparate profits above every thing else


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There is more joy in heaven over one of us perfected,
  than over ninety-nine naturally evolved angels.

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Re: Vaccines and Autism: The Jury is In [Re: arainbow]
    #9793165 -

Yes, that's always a problem, but there's nothing to indicate that this happened here. There is not a single piece of solid evidence linking vaccines to autism. There is no link. It was all a scam. And millions of people fell for it.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Re: Vaccines and Autism: The Jury is In [Re: zouden]
    #9793181 -

NOW there is no evidence linking vaccines to autism
BUT
we have no way of knowing there never was


--------------------
There is more joy in heaven over one of us perfected,
  than over ninety-nine naturally evolved angels.

Edited by arainbow (02/13/09 11:19 PM)

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Re: Vaccines and Autism: The Jury is In [Re: arainbow]
    #9793209 -

That's true, but you can say that about anything. How do we know there's no link between mushrooms and brain cancer? Just because there's no evidence now, doesn't mean we won't find some.

We should remain skeptical about things until evidence appears. So I remain skeptical on the link between vaccines and autism, mushrooms and brain cancer.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Re: Vaccines and Autism: The Jury is In [Re: zouden]
    #9793297 -

zouden said:
That's true, but you can say that about anything. How do we know there's no link between mushrooms and brain cancer? Just because there's no evidence now, doesn't mean we won't find some.

We should remain skeptical about things until evidence appears. So I remain skeptical on the link between vaccines and autism, mushrooms and brain cancer.


my point is not so much about this court case
but it's about drug companies doing there OWN drug testing for FDA approval with NO oversight at all
all they really need to do is say the drug is safe and effective to get FDA approval
they don't even need to do any testing at all just say they tested it


--------------------
There is more joy in heaven over one of us perfected,
  than over ninety-nine naturally evolved angels.

Edited by arainbow (02/13/09 11:50 PM)

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Re: Vaccines and Autism: The Jury is In [Re: arainbow]
    #9793320 -

That's... completely and utterly false. Have you ever participated in a drug trial, or read the results of one? There's a reason it costs two hundred million dollars to test a new drug. It usually takes eight years of solid work to prove it is safe and effective.

There's a good reason for this. A drug which is not screened properly can end up costing the company billions. Drug testing is a Big Fucking Deal and it's taken extremely seriously.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Re: Vaccines and Autism: The Jury is In [Re: zouden]
    #9793519 -

not any more
the bar to prove damages is now so high a drug would have to kill everybody with in hours before
the courts would decide in favorer of a plaintiff
and the limits on damages are so low now that it's profitable to put dangerous drugs on the market
the public has no one at all looking out for them NOT the FDA not the courts nobody at all
the information at that link is badly out dated



--------------------
There is more joy in heaven over one of us perfected,
  than over ninety-nine naturally evolved angels.

Edited by arainbow (02/14/09 01:07 AM)

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Re: Vaccines and Autism: The Jury is In [Re: arainbow]
    #9793717 -

The information is out of date? I don't think you even read it. That was the best example of what happens when the drug-testing system failed. The whole scenario has been carefully examined and documented.

And I don't watch videos, sorry dude.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Vaccines and Autism: The Jury is In [Re: zouden]
    #9793742 -

zouden said:
That's... completely and utterly false. Have you ever participated in a drug trial, or read the results of one? There's a reason it costs two hundred million dollars to test a new drug. It usually takes eight years of solid work to prove it is safe and effective.

There's a good reason for this. A drug which is not screened properly can end up costing the company billions. Drug testing is a Big Fucking Deal and it's taken extremely seriously.



yeppers.


lawsuits are capitalist.  Beware a capitalist who claims to not like lawsuits.


The hole capitalist system is based off of freedom and positive and negative incentive.  Lawsuits are one way to correct wrongs and provide incentive for companies to stop selling shit that kills or hurts, dishonestly, and stop developing the same.

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