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Invisiblethedudenj
Man of the Woods

Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684
expanding and contracting universe
    #9723441 - 02/03/09 12:34 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

pretty much im gona go an say, that theory pretty much came about cause alot of peoples minds are that way they just expand and contract.


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"You all are just  puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours


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OfflinejivJaN
yes
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Registered: 08/10/08
Posts: 4,245
Last seen: 9 years, 7 months
Re: expanding and contracting universe [Re: thedudenj]
    #9723502 - 02/03/09 12:42 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

We all dance to the beat .
The big heart is ever-pounding !
:smile:

+  - 

.. forever in and out of existence


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---------------------

All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life  and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..


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InvisibleCameron
Too Many Words
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Registered: 11/01/07
Posts: 4,437
Loc: Canada
Re: expanding and contracting universe [Re: thedudenj]
    #9723553 - 02/03/09 12:51 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I hate it when my head contracts.



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Invisiblethedudenj
Man of the Woods

Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684
Re: expanding and contracting universe [Re: Cameron]
    #9723647 - 02/03/09 01:02 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

for somereason that just reminds me of people at parties that have nothing to say and kind just keep to themsleves completly but stay there not grasping anything.


which then in turn brings me to the statement i thought about before writing that and wasnt gona write but now that i wrote that i must

it looks like even when he was in his expanded state there wasnt that much stuff in it so when it contracted it looked like that. or something of that such. (half of what i say tho is marked with ambiguity tho.)


--------------------

"You all are just  puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours


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Invisiblederanger
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Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
Re: expanding and contracting universe [Re: thedudenj]
    #9724587 - 02/03/09 03:36 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

i smell meat loaf


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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
CS actual
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Registered: 12/12/07
Posts: 29,591
Re: expanding and contracting universe [Re: deranger]
    #9724657 - 02/03/09 03:49 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I have tried to imagine where the universe is expanding into.  It rapes my mind.


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs


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Invisiblethedudenj
Man of the Woods

Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684
Re: expanding and contracting universe [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #9725170 - 02/03/09 05:05 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

i dunno i makes me think of being social i guess but maybe its just the mushrooms talking. i see the universe as all that person will experience in their life all matter and energy ect. we are each our own little universe with galaxies and planets existing with in our lives


--------------------

"You all are just  puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours


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OfflineRoosterCogburn
Fearless,one-eyed U.S.Marshall
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Registered: 08/25/06
Posts: 8,508
Loc: Dirty South, NJ
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
Re: expanding and contracting universe [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #9725187 - 02/03/09 05:07 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Cognitive_Shift said:
I have tried to imagine where the universe is expanding into.  It rapes my mind.




It will expand until all the initial energy is gone, and then it'll go the other way!

Until BOOM in several billion years, it all begins anew!


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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Registered: 12/12/07
Posts: 29,591
Re: expanding and contracting universe [Re: thedudenj]
    #9725195 - 02/03/09 05:08 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Organisms are the universe experiencing its self.


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs


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Invisiblethedudenj
Man of the Woods

Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684
Re: expanding and contracting universe [Re: RoosterCogburn]
    #9725343 - 02/03/09 05:32 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

RoosterCogburn said:
Quote:

Cognitive_Shift said:
I have tried to imagine where the universe is expanding into.  It rapes my mind.




It will expand until all the initial energy is gone, and then it'll go the other way!

Until BOOM in several billion years, it all begins anew!




then toward the end of that one your sitting in front of your computer making a shroomery post about it lol and had no clue


--------------------

"You all are just  puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours


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OfflineSventington
am what I am what I am what I am

Registered: 01/18/09
Posts: 532
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
Re: expanding and contracting universe [Re: RoosterCogburn]
    #9726428 - 02/03/09 08:34 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

RoosterCogburn said:
Quote:

Cognitive_Shift said:
I have tried to imagine where the universe is expanding into.  It rapes my mind.




It will expand until all the initial energy is gone, and then it'll go the other way!

Until BOOM in several billion years, it all begins anew!





Nah, I'm pretty sure the big crunch theory has been dismissed.


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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Registered: 12/12/07
Posts: 29,591
Re: expanding and contracting universe [Re: Sventington]
    #9726459 - 02/03/09 08:42 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah they think the universe will keep expanding at a faster and faster.  According to edwin hubble.


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs


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Offlineiamconfused
Happily insane since '06

Registered: 03/14/06
Posts: 589
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
Re: expanding and contracting universe [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #9727003 - 02/03/09 01:16 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

you know how the universe expands and contracts? it's like... someone breathing. it's like... think how one breath can last forever when you're really, really tripping. in that time your lung expands and contracts, your heart expands and contracts, your veins expand and contract... it's a whole universe cycle, from big bang to expansion to big bang, rinse wash and repeat as necessary. the infinite time of our universe is an illusion, like how the infinite time of trip can be an illusion. we're living in someone, or something else's second. yeah. universes within universes within universes...


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OfflineNoteworthy
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Registered: 10/05/08
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Re: expanding and contracting universe [Re: iamconfused]
    #9728285 - 02/03/09 09:21 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

walls expand and contract when I take certain drugs

I think the notion of expanding and contracting is the only way to encapsulate a universe with the most basic start and finish (smallest point possible)
I think it just happens that many organisms grow from something tiny until they are mature, and then shrivel away.
however I think it is only loosely analogous. I dont think the theories on expansion and contraction of the universe came from noticing old people deteriorate into nothingness.

heres what Ive been thinking about the destiny of the universe

IT makes plenty of sense that the universe 'started' at some point, but not necessarily ended. I reason this from the notion of scale, which has its ends at 0 and infinity (instead of -infinity and positive infinity, which is usually how time is portrayed)

the universe may have started.. but it was not like it just 'started'...

for the whole universe, including all points in space, all points in time, and all points in any other dimensions there are, may have come into existance at the same time

or always have existed

but there still might be a notion of the 'start' of the universe. the universe, however, is likely to have no tangible value at time 0.



imagine that the universe has infinite density, infinite almost all qualities of compression at time 0. this is impossible, really, to have this infinite scale.

then imagine that the universe has 0 density by time infinity

again, an impossible state to actually attain, given that the universe HAS contents (thus could never have 0 density really)

but as theoretical constructs, time 0 and time infinity still appear as notions on our graph.. and can be subbed into our equasions.

they just dont exist as discrete states of the universe


similarly, the universe may contract again

which is how i used to see it, given that I considered time to extend infinitely in all directions.

i still think about the universe as if it lasted forever

but when strictly considering the implications of denying a 'first' time in the universe, I am drawn away from the notion of an expanding and contracting universe (which seemed perfectly reasonable and still does - for if the universe trully did compress eventually, it would probably just expand again and go on for eternity expanding and contracting, perhaps the same way each time, or perhaps a different way each time, depending on the final state of the previous universe, which might be different each time round, much like the decimals in pi).




now, the notion of a time 0 and time infinity does not actually posit a 'start time' or 'first moment'. this is the same idea as making a smaller and smaller fraction.

time 1 is preceded by time .5
preceded by time .1, which is by .001, which is by .000000001,

and every single 'point' in time is preceded by a point in time, so there are no points in time that are the first point in time, except point 0, which does not have a tangible value.




what this actually means for existence is hard to say..


if the universe had a 'value' of 0, would it exist? 0 exists when we talk about it and use it in our calculations. but does it ever actually exist as a value? in other words, can it have a quantity?

I think it represents a mental 'grasp' of the need for a quantity, for an unfilled space of quantity, the lack of it. This has relevant function in the way that humans abstract information, frame their thoughts in consciousness, and effectively create their comprensible reality. But it represents something that does not actually exist.


We need to, I think, embrace the fact that we have our own inner reality (which we all relate to) where things EXIST in our world, but which cannot be positively identified anywhere in the universe, and know that whatever the answer to our questions is, it will have to be processed by the same system that facilitates the notion of non existant entitites.

it seems like a paradox that in order to understand the pure existance of something, we have to accept the truth of concepts involving non-existant entities.

I guess one way of looking at it is that no matter how hard we try to remove ourselves from ourselves to purely grasp the 'objective universe', we can never actually remove ourselves from the equasion. thus we will perhaps never be able to contain the universe in ourselves WITHOUT taking into account factors of non-existance, which are manifested by our need to subtract ourselves from the total equasion.

^^perhaps a sort of neo-Romantic way of looking at it, but anyway back to the topic




yeah I am of the opinion now that The universe is most likely to keep expanding.

as a last point to think about, perhaps of interest to someone out there,

the idea that the universe will eventually collapse:

well It makes sense considering that mass may eventually be brought back together

but what about light?

radiation?

how does light interact witht eh 'edge' of the universe?

if the universe really continues forver, does the spread of mass?

What we have to remember is that the 'expansion of the universe' is not like a floating pile of pebbles escaping away from eachother.

it is more like a matrix of pebbles that are stationary, but as the speed of light 'slows down', mass increases, and effectively, the 'distance' between the pebbles increases insofar as the amount of time it would take an intertial point to travel the distance given a certain momentum/speed/etc

the distance is increasing and the total 'units', defined in any one moment, will be able to fit moreso across the universe at a later point in time (even if it is an infinite value)

however, as the universe is expanding, matter is collapsing into its equilibrium.

THus planets themselves do not increase in size with the universe. as the distance between the 'matter' comprising a planet increases, it has a lower density and thus can take more weight, and thus the planet shrinks back down to its stable state. there is, after all this, a greater amount of space around the planet. that is to say that it would take light longer


and one more bonus nifty notion on the topic of time and the universe

if you go at the speed of light, then effectively time stops flowing

photons never age

this seems so profoundly significant to me


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OfflinejivJaN
yes
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Registered: 08/10/08
Posts: 4,245
Last seen: 9 years, 7 months
Re: expanding and contracting universe [Re: Noteworthy]
    #9729299 - 02/04/09 12:52 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Im not trying to contradict your universe theory..
Just wanted to respond to the "walls breathing" thing..
Me thinks a lot of psychedelics do that so you would stop looking with your eyes.
Hallucinations are a way of sending a message if you are visually oriented.
But distortions  such as walls breathing are a quite different thing.
I think their message is : This is what you look at everyday thinking its SOLID !! :smile:

They make a mess out of your visual field , and many people seem to enjoy it.
I dont even care for the "visuals" anymore. Lesson learned.
I say... turn the lights off so i can really "see" whats going on :smile:

Sry for going a bit off topic there..


--------------------



---------------------

All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life  and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..


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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
CS actual
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Registered: 12/12/07
Posts: 29,591
Re: expanding and contracting universe [Re: jivJaN]
    #9729337 - 02/04/09 12:59 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

I don't take psychedelics to get visuals.  I take psychedelics to liberate myself from the ego, and have a perception from a different point of view, void of its political and social values.  I like to see the beauty in the world:mushroom2:


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs


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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
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Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 33,139
Re: expanding and contracting universe [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #9729508 - 02/04/09 01:31 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

i really fucked up my cousin when I explained to him that
gravity was caused by the universe expanding through the 4th dimension and creating an inertial drag.
after I drew a diagram
he plotzed.
we used to smoke lots of pot together.


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InvisibleChronic7

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: expanding and contracting universe [Re: thedudenj]
    #9733995 - 02/04/09 08:32 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

is what sees expansion & contraction, expanding or contracting?

what sees all movement but itself is unmoveable?

:peace:


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