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OfflineDeviate
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proof psychedelics can expand the mind
    #4342961 - 06/27/05 02:32 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

most people seem to consider their perceptions external to themselves, for example if they see a tree they assume that tree really exists just like that as they see it. however under the influence of mushrooms that same tree will appear differently in their mind. this is experiencial proof that your perception of the tree is not external to yourself. this may seem pretty simple (meanings its not necessary to take shrooms to understand this) but never the less i think it illustates the way in which psychedelics can destroy ignorance.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: proof psychedelics can expand the mind [Re: Deviate]
    #4342999 - 06/27/05 02:41 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Supose the colors of the tree change, how did that expand your mind? What difference does it make how you experience the colors of the tree?


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineVulture
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Re: proof psychedelics can expand the mind [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4343022 - 06/27/05 02:45 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

some oeople would say that they make you more ingorent and brain washing you by subjecting you to things that arent really there are or arent really happening.


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Dance like nobody is watching.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: proof psychedelics can expand the mind [Re: Vulture]
    #4343043 - 06/27/05 02:48 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

But psychadelicsoften can subject you to things that aren't really there: like glowing sairs appearing in front of you and Jesus comming down


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I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: proof psychedelics can expand the mind [Re: Vulture]
    #4343064 - 06/27/05 02:51 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

because the fact that its possible to experience it in different colors or experience things are that aren't really happening means that what you do experience is only happening in your mind. there is a step (the brain) between the external world and your experience of the external world. it is proof of the power of the mind.


Edited by Deviate (06/27/05 02:53 PM)


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OfflineVulture
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Re: proof psychedelics can expand the mind [Re: Deviate]
    #4343105 - 06/27/05 03:02 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

yes but often the mind is not right...sometimes its just downright wrong.

i agree with your point...im just adding some things that some people i know would say :smile:


--------------------
Work like you dont need the money.

Love like you never been hurt.

Dance like nobody is watching.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: proof psychedelics can expand the mind [Re: Deviate]
    #4343130 - 06/27/05 03:08 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
because the fact that its possible to experience it in different colors or experience things are that aren't really happening means that what you do experience is only happening in your mind. there is a step (the brain) between the external world and your experience of the external world. it is proof of the power of the mind.




well in order to know that perception is subjective, you could just open an encyclopedia or something, that's cheaper than spending 10$ on a trip


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineMAIA
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Re: proof psychedelics can expand the mind [Re: Vulture]
    #4343151 - 06/27/05 03:13 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

What is "really" happening is always a subjective experience. We just agree on what is "real".

MAIA


--------------------
Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: proof psychedelics can expand the mind [Re: MAIA]
    #4343163 - 06/27/05 03:15 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Explain that on the example of 10 people looking at a big rock in the middle of a field


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineVulture
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Re: proof psychedelics can expand the mind [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4343169 - 06/27/05 03:17 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

personally i think physical existance is nothing but a big illusion. But some people are quit ethe opposite.


--------------------
Work like you dont need the money.

Love like you never been hurt.

Dance like nobody is watching.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: proof psychedelics can expand the mind [Re: Vulture]
    #4343205 - 06/27/05 03:25 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Boy you must be living in a paradise, can you make ice-cream appear out of thin air by imagining a different reality?


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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Invisiblemoog
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Re: proof psychedelics can expand the mind [Re: Deviate]
    #4343311 - 06/27/05 03:49 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

proof psychedelics can expand the mind

My head increased 3 hat sizes since I first starting eating mushrooms. They definitely expanded my mind.


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OfflinemyCo_psyCo
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Re: proof psychedelics can expand the mind [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4343414 - 06/27/05 04:15 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Boy you must be living in a paradise, can you make ice-cream appear out of thin air by imagining a different reality?




i like that...


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: proof psychedelics can expand the mind [Re: myCo_psyCo]
    #4343578 - 06/27/05 05:01 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

"well in order to know that perception is subjective, you could just open an encyclopedia or something, that's cheaper than spending 10$ on a trip"

yes but i'm saying the trip provides the experiencial proof for anyone who didn't truly internalize the idea.


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: proof psychedelics can expand the mind [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4343596 - 06/27/05 05:06 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Boy you must be living in a paradise, can you make ice-cream appear out of thin air by imagining a different reality?




such is possible in dreams. dream ice cream tastes very good.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: proof psychedelics can expand the mind [Re: Deviate]
    #4343601 - 06/27/05 05:06 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Psychadelics go beyond just simple relativisation of experience (like turning green into red and vice versa), they introduce elements of perception that are not even based on real objects or any other material or energetic phenomena, which doesn't really teach you that experience is relative. It does teach you not to trust your eyes, but that's not the topic here.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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Offlinebarfightlard
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Re: proof psychedelics can expand the mind [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4343705 - 06/27/05 05:28 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

One trip just walking down the street looking at grass, tress, bushes, ect made me realize that in my sober state these things are just as beautiful but I never took the tmie to see it. Now I see the beauty in all of them.


--------------------

"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?" - Bill Hicks


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: proof psychedelics can expand the mind [Re: barfightlard]
    #4343844 - 06/27/05 05:56 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

yea, other things can help you too, for example some time spent in isolation.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineMAIA
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Re: proof psychedelics can expand the mind [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4344698 - 06/27/05 09:55 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Explain that on the example of 10 people looking at a big rock in the middle of a field




Ask them to draw that rock and tell me how many people draw exactly the same.
Difference sometimes is subtle but it's always present.

MAIA


--------------------
Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: proof psychedelics can expand the mind [Re: barfightlard]
    #4344704 - 06/27/05 09:58 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

bellylard said:
One trip just walking down the street looking at grass, tress, bushes, ect made me realize that in my sober state these things are just as beautiful but I never took the tmie to see it. Now I see the beauty in all of them.



yes;
in this way our intimacy increases and our kneejerk automation self decreases. the way we answer issues that arise becomes more oblique and sensitive and surprisingly more effective when we let ourselves be more intimate with the world during our sobriety.


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