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We Torture!!!
    #9612879 -

Quote:
US lawyers battling against torture and other abuses at Guantánamo Bay are braced for George Bush issuing last-minute pardons to protect those in his administration most closely implicated.

The lawyers' warning came after a senior member of the Bush administration, Susan Crawford, admitted for the first time that torture had been carried out. Until now, the Bush administration, in particular the vice-president, Dick Cheney, had denied the interrogation techniques at Guantánamo constituted torture.

Crawford's admission of torture is in relation to the case of a Saudi national, Mohammed al-Qahtani, 30, accused of involvement in the 9/11 attack. He is often referred to by US authorities as the "20th hijacker". He was denied entry to the US in August 2001 and captured in Afghanistan in 2002. He was tortured for a month and then kept in isolation.

Crawford, a Pentagon official who last year was put in charge of military commissions that decide whether detainees should be tried, told the Washington Post: "We tortured Qahtani. His treatment met the legal definition of torture. And that's why I did not refer the case [for prosecution]." She added: "The techniques they used were all authorised, but the manner in which they applied them was overly aggressive and too persistent."

Bush can issue a pardon to anyone he chooses between now and leaving office at midday on Tuesday. But lawyers warned yesterday that although such a pardon would prevent the politicians and officials from being prosecuted in the US, they would face the risk of being arrested in other countries, as was President Augusto Pinochet.

Gita Gutierrez, Qahtani's lawyer, said yesterday: "We are all concerned that President Bush will hand out pardons as he leaves office. His closest advisers are those most involved in overseeing torture by US personnel. It may prevent their prosecution in the US but it would not prevent other countries pursuing justice along the lines of Pinochet."

Pinochet, who took power in a coup in Chile in the 1970s, was arrested in Britain in 1998 accused of human rights abuses and held until allowed to go home in 2000 on medical grounds.

Gutierrez, who works for the New York-based Center for Constitutional Rights, which represents many of Guantánamo's 200-plus inmates, said she thought Qahtani's torture constituted a war crime.

The International Red Cross, the only independent body with access to Guantánamo, does not speak about specific cases, but it said yesterday that in general, acts of torture could amount to war crimes. Red Cross spokesman Simon Schorno said: "The third Geneva convention prohibits any ill treatment of a person held in the context of a conflict."

The US will find it difficult to go ahead with any prosecution of Qahtani given that evidence obtained under torture would be inadmissible. Some within the US have argued that evidence obtained at a later stage and not tainted by torture could still be used. Gutierrez described Qahtani as severely traumatised and suggested he be returned to Saudi Arabia, which runs a rehabilitation programme.




this is crazy... who would have thought that the bush administration would have lied about something like this?

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Re: We Torture!!! [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #9612924 -

1.)  Of course they lie.  We all were taught as little kids that adults are basically nice and honest.  We were taught this using propaganda techniques that brainwashed us into believing it.  Our entire culture from politics to entertainment to education is people abusing your belief that you aren't being constantly lied to.  Almost every sensory signal you get living in a city watching tv the average number of hours is a lie, so you will be easy to herd like a sheep.  There is a science behind it, which is not it universities, but privately held by governments and corporations.  THIS NEWS STORY IS ALSO A LIE AND AT MOST A CAREFULLY CRAFTED PARTIAL TRUTH.

2.)  It's not just the bush administration.  You can bet your left nut that democrats in Congress knew about it, provided cover, and will protect the people who torture once Obama is in office because it would also bring down too many democrats.

3.)  Americans love torture.  We want to torture.  We get off on those pictures of dead bodies stacked up with an American soldier giving a thumbs up.  There are hundreds of millions of people in America who think their dick is too small, their body smells bad, and their penis is dirty who live in constant fear of an unknown other which is really their true self which feels threatening to them because they are so alienated from everything that makes them human.  These people literally feel under attack at every moment.  They get sexually aroused by torture, and want our country to do it the same way normal people want to have fun sex.  They love chanting "drill, baby, drill" at MILF politicians who wink at them, and are incapable of realizing that what's going on is actually a repressed fascist sexual phenomena because they are so repressed and pathetic.  These are the people that are in charge when we run our government as a democracy.  It's that simple.


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"If it is true that the bigger the thinking becomes, the more lastingly effective it is, we must ask, 'How big can we think?' "  - Buckminster Fuller

Edited by SpencerGNobleman (01/15/09 05:19 AM)

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Re: We Torture!!! [Re: SpencerGNobleman]
    #9613170 -

Quote:
Americans love torture.  We want to torture.



Prove it. Otherwise, this is just a ridiculous claim with no backing. Just because you say so does not make it true. You are not an expert.

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Re: We Torture!!! [Re: Redstorm]
    #9613191 -

Turn in your tv and watch the shows that get ratings. Turn on talk radio.  Look at what kinds of porn get produced.  Look at how we treat poor and mentally ill people. Look at the polls on it.  Open your eyes things are already worse than you think.


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"If it is true that the bigger the thinking becomes, the more lastingly effective it is, we must ask, 'How big can we think?' "  - Buckminster Fuller

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Re: We Torture!!! [Re: SpencerGNobleman]
    #9613206 -

Like I said, you have no proof. None of those things show that we want our policies to reflect torture in real life.

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Re: We Torture!!! [Re: SpencerGNobleman]
    #9613577 -

please stop posting your baseless, teen-ideology ridden nonsense
and just go play your xbox, k?


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.

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Re: We Torture!!! [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #9614062 -

Another cut and paste job with no link.  At any rate:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/15/us/15detain.html?_r=1

Quote:
This was a flesh-and-blood case: a Saudi, Mohammed al-Qahtani, who was kept in isolation and cold rooms, deprived of sleep, made to do dog tricks and broken by sexual and other humiliations too numerous to list.



The poor baby.


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Re: We Torture!!! [Re: zappaisgod]
    #9614642 -

Good.

Now execute him.

Just be sure not to do it in a manner that is "overly aggressive and too persistent" because that would be, you know, mean and stuff.


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I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang

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Re: We Torture!!! [Re: zappaisgod]
    #9615348 -

zappaisgod said:
Another cut and paste job with no link.  At any rate:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/15/us/15detain.html?_r=1

Quote:
This was a flesh-and-blood case: a Saudi, Mohammed al-Qahtani, who was kept in isolation and cold rooms, deprived of sleep, made to do dog tricks and broken by sexual and other humiliations too numerous to list.



The poor baby.



why would I really need to add the link? its the same exact story word for word on every news organization.... yes, even fox, if you actually call that a news organization. in fact, its where I heard it first last night, then heard the exact same thing driving home on PRI.

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Re: We Torture!!! [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #9615611 -

Because putting a link is the rules.

It helps people from spamming the forum with all kinds of sensationalist headlines from some lunatic blog with four readers scattered someplace across the Yemeni countryside..

Or at least, helps us identify them.

It's good policy.


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After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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Re: We Torture!!! [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #9615737 -

YAY!  We're North Koreans!


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What can we do to help you stop screaming?

Official Mr Shoebat lackey.

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Re: We Torture!!! [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #9615773 -

YawningAnus said:
zappaisgod said:
Another cut and paste job with no link.  At any rate:

why would I really need to add the link? its the same exact story word for word on every news organization.... yes, even fox, if you actually call that a news organization. in fact, its where I heard it first last night, then heard the exact same thing driving home on PRI.



What, did they scroll that text on TV and you somehow managed to cut and paste it from there?  What's PRI?


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Re: We Torture!!! [Re: zappaisgod]
    #9615833 -

PRI = Public Radio International


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After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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Re: We Torture!!! [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #9616562 -

Thanks.  Here's some specifics on how mean they were to the poor little poo.

http://www.anorak.co.uk/media/200142.html


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Re: We Torture!!! [Re: zappaisgod]
    #9616692 -

For those too lazy to click the link...

Quote:
For 160 days his only contact was with the interrogators. Forty-eight of 54 consecutive days of 18-to-20-hour interrogations. Standing naked in front of a female agent. Subject to strip searches. And insults to his mother and sister.”

At one point he was threatened with a military working dog named Zeus, according to a military report. Qahtani “was forced to wear a woman’s bra and had a thong placed on his head during the course of his interrogation” and “was told that his mother and sister were whores.” With a leash tied to his chains, he was led around the room “and forced to perform a series of dog tricks,” the report shows.



The horror.  The horror.  When I hear of torture, I'm thinking ripping out fingernails, cutting off body parts, branding, raping, breaking bones, electrical shocks, beaten to near death... spanish inquisition, holy roman empire... you know... torture.  Apparently, bullying and being forced to wear woman's underwear is now torture.  How times have changed...


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: We Torture!!! [Re: Seuss]
    #9616904 -

Seuss said:
How times have changed...



Sigh, I miss the good old days.


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Re: We Torture!!! [Re: zappaisgod]
    #9622175 -

zappaisgod said:
Thanks.  Here's some specifics on how mean they were to the poor little poo.

http://www.anorak.co.uk/media/200142.html



Nice source.  Isn't that basically a mouthpiece for the BNP?  Why, yes it is.


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What can we do to help you stop screaming?

Official Mr Shoebat lackey.

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Re: We Torture!!! [Re: TGRR]
    #9622673 -

I thought it was a humor site with some real facts.  You want another one?  Here.
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2009/01/022556.php
Quote:
Crawford says "the techniques. . .used were all authorized but the manner in which they applied them was overly aggressive and too persistent." These techniques included sustained isolation, sleep deprivation, nudity, and "prolonged exposure to cold." Interrogators also insulted Qahtani's mother and sister, forced him to wear a bra, placed a thong on his head, and made him perform "dog tricks."

Crawford acknowledged that torture is normally thought to entail "some horrendous physical act." However, in this case "it was not one particular act [but] just a combination of things that had a mental impact on him, that hurt his health." In fact, the "medical impact" is what "put her over the edge" in concluding that Qahtani was tortured. Apparently, the terrorist had to be hospitalized when his heart beat dropped to well below 60 beats per minute.

Crawford's application of the "torture" label, then, is based on her subjective view of when a combination of techniques becomes too aggressive and too persistent. Suppose this particular combination had not caused the terrorist's heart beat rate to fall below 60 per minute. In that event, Crawford apparently would not have concluded he was "tortured."



These Muslim terrorists are, at the end of the day, quite the bunch of pussies, dontcha think?


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Re: We Torture!!! [Re: zappaisgod]
    #9625245 -

Just think what they would do to YawningAnus under Sharia law.

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Re: We Torture!!! [Re: Luddite]
    #9625799 -

I think there is a long tradition of buggery among Muslims so he should be right comfortable.


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