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Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

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ToTheSummit said:

The word "torture" is subjective.
And the US Constitution does not apply to 'enemy combatants', but grants rights to US citizens only.


Just a couple points that will be argued here I'm sure.

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the US constitution does not apply to captured POWs or enemy combatants...nevertheless..until 2002..federal statutes still prohibited the use of torture on these prisoners...

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under this interpretation..the 8th amendment prohibits a court from imposing a sentance that includes torture.. but does not prohibit the use of torture in interrogations.. or when it is otherwise not a punishment handed down by a court...

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Therian said:

I also believe torture is subjective.  What exactly is cruel and unusual punishment? How about excessively long terms of incarceration for relatively minor infractions or victimless crimes? How about the sickening hypocrisy and double standards of incarceration when it comes to the wealthy, famous, or politically connected?

How about teens being sent to prison to be sodomized for minor drug offenses. Then these offenses go on their records and they become ineligible to ever receive financial aid to go to college, thus symbolically ass raping them into perpetuity. 

I think without a doubt those in  congress on both sides had to know what was going on and agreed with it, Obama included.  You tell me why else all the democrats would not be jumping on this issue whole heartedly for political gain.  They could have the republicans strung by their nads over this if they did not exhibit complicity in what went on.

As for the torture I don't see it.  When I watched the special on 9/11 in real time it put an actual face on the victims.  How many thousands of children will go to bed tonight without a parent. How many kids will never have a father to play ball with,go fishing with, or get parental advice from, how many daughters will never have their mothers with them to confide in, or see them married, go to prom, etc.

Well we could tell them there were evil men that planned this attack, and although your parents never hurt this man or his followers, he killed your parents.  And no, it most likely was not a painless death. They most certainly hung outside of windows waiting to be saved, but ultimately the heat began to melt the skin from their bodies and when they and others in equal amounts of excruciating pain and terror could no longer take it, they jumped from the buildings. 

Their bodies were crushed and exploded on impact with the ground, their skulls with grey matter, internal organs and pieces of bone, were sent flying, washing neighboring buildings with pieces of what was once your parent. Their bodies never to be found, never laid to rest, never any closure.

Ooh yeah and that bad guy, the whole nation is crying over him, for Christs sake, he had water poured on his face.

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Therian said:

I'm not attempting to frighten anyone with tales, this is actual fact.
This war was not trumped up on false confessions, you're a jackass. This war, at least as far as Iraq is concerned was based on lies, and non-existent WMD's.

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The report found that Maj. Paul Burney, a United States Army psychiatrist assigned to interrogations in Guantánamo Bay that summer of 2002, told Army investigators of another White House imperative: “A large part of the time we were focused on trying to establish a link between Al Qaeda and Iraq and we were not being successful.” As higher-ups got more “frustrated” at the inability to prove this connection, the major said, “there was more and more pressure to resort to measures” that might produce that intelligence.

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Once again are you forgetting what brought about this war/who attacked whom in the first place?

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Do you know how many of our soldiers were captured and then tortured, beaten, shot, had their bodies dragged through the streets, etc. Jessica lynch was sodomized and another in her company had his eyes scooped out with a blunt object, then he was shot in the head.  That is what I call torture, but hey she probably wore something sexy that day and was asking for it, right. So where is the outrage over these acts?

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If my mother/sister/brother etc. was one of those burned alive in the towers then I really don't care what your perception of torture is.  I would hope that I could perform it myself. It would be agonizing, drawn out, and excruciating, and it certainly would not involve pouring water on someones face.

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As I have stated before, if you feel water boarding is so extreme, then why don't we abide by quid pro quo. We could lock them in a room 80 stories up, I would gladly throw in a few dozen gallons of jet fuel, set it ablaze and let them know when it gets too hot 40 virgins reside just outside the window.  How can reciprocity equate torture?  If you feel it does, that's fine. I wouldn't do it for political gain, but for deep sense of personal satisfaction...and of course a good nights sleep.

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