fireworks_god said:

Did g*d ever show you all of his trophies and medals he was given for all of those chasms he jumped? He's quite the acrobatic athlete; he doesn't even need a pole vault!

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Yeah, he's quite the character

NlightNd1 said:

I would ask her to watch this History Channel documentary about Edgar Cayce. He is concrete proof of God's existence and proof that all humans have eternal life. I would challenge any skeptic to try and argue against what I have claimed, but I would ignore any skeptic who hasn't at least watched this documentary. I would also tell her to read this information Edgar Cayce gave about the afterlife realms: http://www.near-death.com/experiences/cayce08.html Just for the record I don't belong to any religion and it upsets me the way Christians tell people that they are going to go to Hell for eternity, as this is far from the truth.

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supernovasky said:

So, my question to all of you... Imagine you had a very open minded, potential psychonaut to talk to that was dying... someone who WANTED to relay all of her experiences and thoughts to you, and someone who you could talk to and they would actually listen to EVERY word of what you are saying... what would you say? What would you talk about?

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This won't directly answer your questions, but I thought it would be a good idea for me to tell you my experience with death, so that it will help contribute to your perspective on the matter and, hopefully, serve a good purpose in your relationship with this person before she dies, and also to benefit yourself through it all.

I never had anyone emotionally close to me die until I was already an adult (or, more correctly, I was almost an adult and then really became one through the process of her dying ). I consider this a great thing because it allowed my perspective on dying to not become conditioned by others at a younger age, especially regarding having it misrepresented for something it isn't...

Anyways, my grandmother discovered she had cancer, and the progression to death was unexpectedly fast. I remember being called once by family and told that they were all gathering there at the farm for some sort of holiday, and that it would be a great idea for me to make it because she had become pretty affected by having cancer, meaning that in a short time her body nearly completely changed due to it all. I showed up without her knowing I was, and when I walked in, she was so wonderfully ecstatic to see me (it had been a little while), telling her sister, who she was on the phone with, again and again that I was there and she ran up to give me one of the biggest hugs I'd ever received. She had lot a lot of weight, but she at least gave the impression that she was really fighting it, and that she was going to leave that week to some special treatment center. It really sounded like there was a lot of potential that she was going to overcome it...

Fast-forward, just a couple weeks I think, and I got another call that she was in the hospice and that she was very likely to not make it much longer. Kind of a shock considering how she was just a short while before. I didn't have the resources at the time to even make it down there, so I had to barter with work and I still couldn't get anything from them other than being able to take as much time away from work as I needed. This was really frustrating and got to me emotionally, but my mother was able to drive up and get me. The night before I left, I was working through the fact that she was about to die, and I was able to completely accept the fact, even though it was kind of hard to do so, but only because I had the impression that, if I did, then she would actually die before I made it there to see her one last time.

When I made it there to the hospice (it was nice because she had the only room with a separate, family room kind of thing, so friends and family could gather without worrying about disturbing her in her room, and still be there for her at the same time), she was quickly reaching the point where her body was starting to carry out the process of dying, so that she was still able to recognize people and even talk a little bit, but she was definitely struggling to do so. It was disappointing to not have been there earlier so that I could have really talked with her. I went in with my mother (she was my dad's mom, and my mom and dad had been divorced for quite some time) and my little brother. My mom was very overwhelmed by seeing my grandma like that, and had to look away a lot as she struggled to not cry, and my little brother started crying and holding my grandma, who comforted him and told him that it would be okay. I talked with her a little bit, but it was very trivial stuff, and I basically didn't feel compelled to say anything because it didn't matter to do so, so I just sat there and smiled. When we got up to leave, she held my hand and looked at me for a moment, and she held me very weakly, but you could tell that it was with all of her warmth and love.

That's actually the last moment I was with her, because I went back to the farm that night to be able to talk with MT, as this was before I moved to be with her. I made it back in the afternoon the next day, and had a chance to walk in and sit with her, but I looked in and could see that she wasn't even in the bad condition she was in the day before anymore, and was about ready to rest; I remember feeling a little emotionally uneasy about going in too, but it just seemed best not to. I came back in the late evening and stayed there in the family room all night with my dad, and eventually my grandpa when we called him to come back. My grandpa had spent a lot of time talking with her before that day, telling her that it was all right, that she could let go, to go home and to heaven and everything like that (they're Lutherans ). It was an uncomfortable experience being there that night because her lungs had started to fill with fluid, so obviously this made all kinds of noise, and, when it got closer to dawn, it became pretty clear that she was about to die, so the three of us went in to be with her. Her lungs were drowning and, if she was conscious, there was no external sign of it at all, and my grandpa held her hand and told her that it was all right and time to go home. You could emotionally feel that she was about to die, and then, just before she did, she sat up and her eyes opened (they were all glossed over and everything like that though), and there was kind of a moment of silence, and then she died and laid back. My dad cried on my shoulder, but I was never crying because I had already fully accepted this.

I stood around with them for a little while, then felt it was a good time to step outside for a walk. The sun had just came up, clear sky and really bright, so I slipped on the shades and walked around a little bit, feeling nothing but just aware and connected with everything. I was lucky in that I had already spent some time with psychedelics, coming to terms with the immediacy of my own death, and so I never resisted or struggled against the reality of it all in the slightest, making it a very interesting, cool, evolving experience. I definitely shared a closer, emotional bond with my grandma than both of my parents even, so it was definitely a pivotal moment for me to lose her physically. It might not have been an easy experience if I didn't have my wonderful love to share it with, even if we were so far away physically at the time. My grandma is definitely the original source of all of the love I have in this life, so it isn't even necessary to try to imagine her still "living" somewhere. I actually even had a dream last night in which she was still alive.

The only other thought I would mention is how much I hated the funeral. The wake was much more interesting because it wasn't put within any context beyond family, friends, and acquaintances coming in to see her dead, and I believe something like 400 people streamed through. The funeral was horrible though, a Friday morning, and it was nothing more than some old guy who read the information on the service brochure, and then opportunistically processed everyone in the room with his snake-oil. I would have been much more happy with family and friends coming out to the farm, where there was plenty of space and a comfortable setting, to have lunch together and reminiscence together.

I mention this last part because of my aversion to people adopting and promoting unsubstantiated bullshit as some means of coming to terms with death. Assuming as known an unknown in any other situation is bad enough, but to propagate it regarding death is pretty much the frozen limit as far as I'm concerned. Considering that this forum is Philosophy and Spirituality, and it is necessarily implied that any idea is open to being critiqued, regardless of the nature of the topic itself, I will continue to reserve the right to do so. It isn't off-topic to do so, and it isn't a sign of disrespect to anyone. The forum is for ideological discussion, and certainly no idea has any right to be respected.

supernovasky said:

So, my question to all of you... Imagine you had a very open minded, potential psychonaut to talk to that was dying... someone who WANTED to relay all of her experiences and thoughts to you, and someone who you could talk to and they would actually listen to EVERY word of what you are saying... what would you say? What would you talk about?

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I think the answer would depend on who is dying and what my relationship to them was.  Overall, speaking in general terms, I think the moral thing to do would be express, in whatever way possible, a feeling of love and compassion toward them.  I think that most people, regardless of the circumstance, want love and compassion more than they want answers to life's riddles.

Of course a nice phat wad of cash is rarely turned down either.

I remember when someone exceptionally close to me died.  I could barely choke down a second helping of waffles.  What a day that was. 

LuNaTiX said:

I'm just saying this is a serious thread, I take death very seriously,

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I would rather read positive and constructive posts rather...

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Fortunately, no one else is bound to fulfill your expectations, eh?

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...then arguing back and forth over such trivial things.

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Theres a reason I don't like P&S as much as I did awhile back and its because theres more bickering back and forth then ever and quite frankly I'm annoyed by it.

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haha but I see what you mean, im not trying to sensor anything, I just would like to read a thread where everything would flow more smoothly.

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I hear that, but then my idea of a thread in which everything runs smoothly is one in which several people don't express objections to those who are engaging in ideological discussion in a critical fashion - one of the explicit purposes of this forum. Also, to not see people engaging in personalisms because the forum isn't the way they want it to be, statements such as "supposed lovers" and "people trying to prove they are right".

Eh?

LuNaTiX said:

I'm just saying this is a serious thread, I take death very seriously

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What does "taking death seriously" mean?

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I would rather read positive and constructive posts rather then arguing back and forth over such trivial things.

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Mr. Mushrooms said:

Both the story and the debate about what should be said directly miss the point of the OP.

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This isn't news to me; the story was given with the acknowledgment that it didn't directly answer the question, and the debate ensued when someone responded with a set of ideas to the OP in a manner that I felt like criticizing.

Is there a problem here?

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Please share, I'm curious.  Or did the vagueness prevent a direct answer?  I know I stumbled over that myself.  That was the reason for my answer such as it was.

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fireworks_god said:

supernovasky said:

What would you talk about?

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The nature of reality, acceptance, enjoying the present moment, and, quite certainly, to not adopt unsubstantiated bullshit to make oneself feel better about the unknown.

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Are you quite finished with this?