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Invisiblemycofile
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Re: can a non hallucinogenic edible mushroom strain be cross bred with a hallucinogenic?
    #90899 - 12/11/99 02:54 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Yes. Can we do it? No.
Not a chance in hell.
or heaven.
or here.
Sorry

------------------
-From a registered Mad Scientist

"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obiwan Kenobi (also a Mad Scientist tm)



--------------------
"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi

PM me with any cultivation questions.

I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.


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Anonymous

Re: can a non hallucinogenic edible mushroom strain be cross bred with a hallucinogenic?
    #90901 - 12/11/99 08:55 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Mycofile, I disagree. It is very much possible, only that no actual scientist have taken this test upon himself.
Let me explain : a mutation between two cells can occur in controlled enviroments. What heppens is that the mutagen(the stuff that makes the mutation) confuses one cell, and forcing it to take the other cell's nucleums. What happens is a hybrid between 2 species, where one is the more dominent one.
One known mutagen that causes this is - EMS.



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OfflinePsilowarrior
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Registered: 11/21/99
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Re: can a non hallucinogenic edible mushroom strain be cross bred with a hallucinogenic?
    #90902 - 12/13/99 03:52 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

No tweedy I'd have to disagree. True you can easily produce mutants that lack a certain enzyme that the wild type carries or even clone in an expression construct to get bacteria or lactating sheep or whatever to produce a PROTEIN product from some other species. Insulin is a perfect example. The production of alkaloids, chemical products, is oodles more complex. It requires synthetic pathways involving many enzymes working in delicate synchrony with cellular transport mechanisms and the like. The synthetic pathways used by mushrooms to produce these alkaloids, and the genes that encode the many required proteins are likely not even known in enough detail.

In the future it could be perhaps accomplished but as of now I am aware of only a few successful examples of transplanting entire biosynthetic pathways from one organism into another.

Of course the real question is why would anyone spend their time and effort and money trying to do such a thing. The answer is nobody. Why? No commercial value.

[This message has been edited by Psilowarrior (edited December 16, 1999).]



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OfflinePsilowarrior
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Re: can a non hallucinogenic edible mushroom strain be cross bred with a hallucinogenic?
    #90903 - 12/13/99 03:55 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I should really read more carefully.

I don't see why you couldn't cross breed them if they were sufficiently simmilar. At best you would get reproductive deficient offspring like a mule from a horse and donkey cross.



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Anonymous

Re: can a non hallucinogenic edible mushroom strain be cross bred with a hallucinogenic?
    #90904 - 12/13/99 05:50 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

In a lab at the univeristy where I study a student friend of mine grew cells of mice resistant to a certain (thought un curable) illness. He used EMS, and the same can be done with mushrooms. I would send you his article, but its in hebrew...

Later,
tweedy.



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OfflineDan
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Re: can a non hallucinogenic edible mushroom strain be cross bred with a hallucinogenic?
    #90905 - 12/13/99 10:11 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

tweedy, Im sorry but there is no such process in nature labeled as a" mutation between two cells". The only way effectively(and theoretically) to combine the genetic material of two completely different species is to actually physically take half of the chromosomes from one host, and connect them to half of the chromosomes of another host orgamsim. Then the genes would be placed in a cell(hyphal for fungi) and let to sit to see if mitosis does indeed occur. But this is not humanly possible. Besides even if this forced physical exchange of genetic material could be made to take place, it is EXTREMELY, EXTREMELY, EXTREMELY, EXTREMELY, EXTREMELY, EXTREMELY, EXTREMELY, EXTREMELY, EXTREMELY, EXTREMELY, EXTREMELY, EXTREMELY, EXTREMELY, EXTREMELY, EXTREMELY, EXTREMELY, EXTREMELY, EXTREMELY, EXTREMELY, EXTREMELY, EXTREMELY, EXTREMELY, unlikely that the cell would even live long enough to divide. But, IF this somehow impossible thing did happen, the cell did divide, it would be NOTHING like either of the original genetic donors. This is due to the fact that just because one organism stores its genetic makeup of active genes in one place along the deoxyribonucleic acid string, does not mean that other do so as well. Therefoore in theory, in a completely sterile environment, this orgamsim could survive. But the fact still remains that all of the genes are simply not compatible. You could end up with something not even a fungus, let alone being a perfect mushroom. I would guess at your question being about making a new mushroom which is not illegal, correct? If that is so, then that thought even is unfounded. Psilobye genus species of mushrooms ARE NOT ILLEGAL. It is not the mushroom which is controlled, it is the substance which it produces. Therefore, if you made some new kind of mushroom, with psilocybin in it and you think that you cant get busted for it, then think again, becasue once the test results come back on your mushrooms, psilocybin content is a felony. It is not species which dictates legality.

On a lighter note, you may have seen Paul Stamets books "Psilocybin Mushrooms of the world" and "Psilocybin Mushrooms and their allies" They describe many species of mushrooms that are not hallucinogenic normally, but in some cases it is reported. This is most likely because of the psilocybin producing gene being recessive. Experiments with these species may prove fruitful if one has the time, money, and patience for selective dikaryotic strain isolation. Or you could talk to mycophile, and get him to score you some mutagenic compounds. Anyways, no they could not be "cross bred" anyhow, because fungi do not reproduce sexually on a macroscopic level, and even if they could I would liken the process to trying to make a new organism by making a fish and a snake go at it. :wink:



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Invisibleaaron
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Registered: 10/18/99
Posts: 89
Re: can a non hallucinogenic edible mushroom strain be cross bred with a hallucinogenic?
    #90906 - 12/15/99 01:42 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

PROTOPLAST TECHNOLOGY

Protoplasts are used in two areas of genetic manipulation, fusion and transformation.
Through protoplast fusion it is possible to bring together whole genomes of related (isogenic)or non-related strains and even different species promote recombination leading to the production of novel phenotypes.Protoplast fusion, therefore, can provide a mechanism to overcome natural incompatibility barriers that exist between different strains and species.


AARON

[This message has been edited by aaron (edited December 15, 1999).]



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Invisiblemycofile
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Re: can a non hallucinogenic edible mushroom strain be cross bred with a hallucinogenic?
    #90907 - 12/15/99 04:46 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

OK, I thought my curt reply was sufficient, but lets see who can spout off more semi-science-fiction possibilities (sci-fi for anybody coming here that is).

First, fuck dikaryotic strain isolation, that's not enough. It is entirely THEORETICALLY possible that if you isolated enough hyphae from hallucinogens, and tried to breed them with hyphae from non-hallucinogens, that eventually you could get two compatable hyphae. The problem is few here have the facilities for any kind of monokaryotic isolation, and certainly not the facilities to try this in literally billions of combinations. It could happen but it won't.

2 Anybody ever heard of transposons? The so-called "jumping genes". Basically they are DNA sequences that are able to literally detach themselves from the original organism and reattach themselves in the DNA of other organisms. To my knowledge they have only been studied in bacteriaphages, but I talked to a professor who thinks they could be present in more developed life-forms such as lower-fungi. Perhaps somebody from the shroomery wants to win the noble prize by discovering them in higher fungi? Possible, not gonna happen.
Genetic engineering is possible. Gene splicing is pretty common shit these days, but not with people growing hallucinogenic mushrooms.
Before any of this will ever happen, a "simple" genetic insertion of the psilocybe producing dna into a bacteria will happen. That is after the genome is sufficiently mapped, which it isn't. But, this new bacteria can be grown in large vats, and the psilocybe could be harvested. By using bacteria, the generation times are drastically reduced, and large batches could be made quickly. There simply isn't enough commercial demand for this though, the world would be flooded with a decades supply of psilocybin within the first month of production.
Any more science fiction fans out there. Remember, today's sci-fi is tommorrows reality.
But that's tommorrow, not today.
It can't be done, because it won't be done. If it is never done, then obviously it can't have happened, or it would have.

------------------
-From a registered Mad Scientist

"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obiwan Kenobi (also a Mad Scientist tm)



--------------------
"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi

PM me with any cultivation questions.

I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.


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Invisibleaaron
member

Registered: 10/18/99
Posts: 89
Re: can a non hallucinogenic edible mushroom strain be cross bred with a hallucinogenic?
    #90908 - 12/15/99 10:52 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

if you are interested in persuing this subject here's where i would look first.
ANNE,J. & PEBERBY, J.F. (1976).Induced fusion of fungal protoplasts following treatment with polyethylene glycol. Journal of General Microbiology 92,413-417.

All the lab procedures are a modification of this percedure. then read;
Genetic and Breeding of Edible Mushrooms edited by Shu-Ting Chang,John A.Buswell,and Philip G.Miles.(1993)

This is 23 year old technology and it been refined since then, and in my opinion its possible to do protoplast fusion, but not gene transfers at this time.Don't take my word about it, READ IT FOR YOURSELF.



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