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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Hunting and Identification
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You don't say? * 1
    #8821430 -

Maybe no one gives a rat's ass, but I like to know what I saying.

Audio pronunciation guide.

Click on a species of your choice and hear it pronounced.  Not as exciting as Ninja Night Hunting for shrooms when the cops are searching the area, but it helps to be understood.

Cop:  What are you doing out here, looking for magic mushrooms?

Picker:  No sir, I am a mycology student looking for the rare, night-fruiting Epidermophyton floccosum, a mushroom currently being used in cancer research.

Could happen.  :shrug:

:lol:

Anyway, I thought it was cool and wanted to share.  :heart:


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Re: You don't say? [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #8821865 -

EXCELLENT link!!!!!!!
Almost deserves a sticky at the top ........I vote for a poll to make it a sticky at the top!!!!!!!!!:thumbup:


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I love our leaders and the feds ,they are great people and the laws they make help us!:rofl2:

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Re: You don't say? [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #8821892 -

Last week I had about an hour's conversation with Else Vellinga about the pronunciation of mushroom names. She mentioned that she had been receiving requests from people on how to pronounce various names, and I suggested Tom Volk's site, specifically because of those recordings he does.

I mentioned that people looked to people like her for guidance because they were authorities on the topic of mycology, and we expected that she would have learned the pronunciations from her teachers. She then dropped what the "pronunciation Nazis" would consider a pretty big bombshell. The pronunciation of mushroom names is very region specific. The example we used was Inocybe. I quoted the two versions given by Alexander Smith, then she said that neither was how she was taught in the Netherlands. There the name is pronounced "in-no'-see-beh" (accent on the second syllable), which is very unlike the ways I have heard it pronounced here.

What I'm verbosely getting to is that the pronunciation of these names is only a communication device. Contrary to what some people might say or desire, there is no "correct" way to say them that is right and everything else is wrong. The names are just a sort of shorthand for describing a mushroom (or whatever), and as long as communication happens, it's all good.

And I still love the way Tom Volk does his bit out there.

Happy mushrooming!


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Happy mushrooming!

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Re: You don't say? [Re: unretarded]
    #8821904 -

I don't know about a sticky but an inclusion within one of the existing ones might be nice.  Thanks for appreciating it.  I certainly do.  I hate sounding like an idiot when I'm talking to professionals.
Should this be included at the top of the forum?
Users may choose only one (11 total votes)
Yes.
-
9 82%
No.
-
2 18%
Votes accepted from 08/24/08 12:00 PM until 08/31/08 07:58 PM


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Re: You don't say? [Re: ToxicMan]
    #8821955 -

ToxicMan said:
Last week I had about an hour's conversation with Else Vellinga about the pronunciation of mushroom names. She mentioned that she had been receiving requests from people on how to pronounce various names, and I suggested Tom Volk's site, specifically because of those recordings he does.


:lol:  Well, that's an interesting way to pass the time.  If I had had the chance I would have discussed other topics until the cows came home before venturing into that one.

Quote:
I mentioned that people looked to people like her for guidance because they were authorities on the topic of mycology, and we expected that she would have learned the pronunciations from her teachers. She then dropped what the "pronunciation Nazis" would consider a pretty big bombshell.


Did Marilyn faint or was she out of the room?

Quote:
The pronunciation of mushroom names is very region specific. The example we used was Inocybe. I quoted the two versions given by Alexander Smith, then she said that neither was how she was taught in the Netherlands. There the name is pronounced "in-no'-see-beh" (accent on the second syllable), which is very unlike the ways I have heard it pronounced here.


Region specific, yes.  However I am sure many of the pronounciations are the same within a country, especially among the academics.

Quote:
What I'm verbosely getting to is that the pronunciation of these names is only a communication device. Contrary to what some people might say or desire, there is no "correct" way to say them that is right and everything else is wrong. The names are just a sort of shorthand for describing a mushroom (or whatever), and as long as communication happens, it's all good.


To some it is that way.  To others, and here I would include Tom, it is a bit more than that.  Otherwise why would he have taken the time to include that information.  There may not be exact correct pronunciations (see Marilyn again), but there certainly are incorrect pronunciations.  Otherwise throw out the pronunciation portion of dictionaries.

Quote:
And I still love the way Tom Volk does his bit out there.

Happy mushrooming!


As do I and same to you. :wink:


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Re: You don't say? [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #8821956 -

what? no psilocybe? come on... people fuck that up all the damn time.


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If you want to find psilocybin in species that are not yet known to be psychoactive, you should do chemical tests. That way you won't get sick and die all the time.
- Alan Rockefeller

Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."
- Philip K. Dick

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Re: You don't say? [Re: ToxicMan]
    #8825125 -

ToxicMan said:
The example we used was Inocybe. I quoted the two versions given by Alexander Smith, then she said that neither was how she was taught in the Netherlands. There the name is pronounced "in-no'-see-beh" (accent on the second syllable), which is very unlike the ways I have heard it pronounced here.


That's an interesting one and it immediately shows that the pronunciation regions can be very small indeed; I'd even go so far as to state that it is practically down to personal preference, as I would lay the emphasis on the third syllable (I'm also from The Netherlands).

I think the problem has to do with the Latin names being, well, Latin and nobody really knows what the pronunciation 'rules' for Latin really were. One rule I've heard of is to put the accent on the third syllable counting from the end of the word, but that is definitely not a rule that my Latin teachers stuck to back in school, which illustrates that there's obviously no consensus on the subject.

Then, I must say that in daily use, I prefer to use the Dutch names as most people I talk to about mushrooms are not aware of the Latin names.

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Re: You don't say? [Re: ToxicMan]
    #8825357 -

Quote:
there is no "correct" way to say them that is right and everything else is wrong.


Tell that to curecat, ive been called stupid for how i pronounce my mushroom names... My reply was "Sorry i didnt goto school for latin my bad"

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Re: You don't say? [Re: PinheadX]
    #8825391 -

PinheadX said:
what? no psilocybe? come on... people fuck that up all the damn time.


I know, that's what I was wondering!


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Re: You don't say? [Re: implee]
    #8825544 -

I have a couple of my own rules when it comes to pronuncication.

1.  Never correct anyone, you just look like an ass if you do.*

2.  Try to learn what is considered the best and most accurate pronunciation of the names.

3.  Use these pronunciations that are learned in the company of others disregarding any differences between us as long as we can communicate.

4.  Never look down on someone who hasn't taken Latin or Greek.

*single exception to Rule #1.  Use it in reverse one those who correct others.  :lol:  Turn about is fair play.

No one likes the spelling, or grammar, or pronunications Nazis, but that shouldn't hold anyone back from learning something new.

Here is a helpful link on Latin binomial nomenclaturefor those who are interested:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Botanical_Latin


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Re: You don't say? [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #8825603 -

Quote:
Well, that's an interesting way to pass the time.  If I had had the chance I would have discussed other topics until the cows came home before venturing into that one.


Actually I spent most of two days with her, the first driving around with her and hunting mushrooms and the second identifying stuff at the botanic gardens. The conversation about pronunciation was just one hour out of all that, and Else actually was the first to mention about pronunciation.

Quote:
Did Marilyn faint or was she out of the room?


She wasn't within earshot. She and I get along OK, but I do disagree with her "pronunciation Nazi" bit. It might have been interesting if she had heard.






One last thought, for those who are really determined to find the "correct" way to pronounce these names. There is a tape floating around where Alexander Smith and Rolf Singer (arguably the two most important mycologists of the last century) take turns pronouncing various names. They don't pronounce them the same way.

Since I'm on the program committee for the CO Myco Soc, maybe I'll try to get Tom Volk here next year and I can have an extension of this conversation with him. Last time he was here he became pretty ill (it was less than a year before he got his heart transplant), and I hear that his health is much better, so it would be great to see him under better circumstances. For anybody who doesn't know, Tom is one of the nicest people you will probably ever meet. Not to mention that he's also terribly smart and fun to talk with.


Quote:
Tell that to curecat, ive been called stupid for how i pronounce my mushroom names.


If I see her I'll try to remember to mention it. I haven't actually met her, although she and I have Else as a mutual acquaintance.

I know I had some really different ideas about how to pronounce them 30 years ago. For something like pronunciation I've decided that it's probably best to try and do it the same as the majority of people I'm around, as it makes communication easier.





koraks, I can definitely sympathize with using common names instead of Latin. The biggest problem here is that there are also regional common names. "Pig Ears" is used here for so many different mushrooms in different places that it makes for a great example of where common names can go wrong (2 examples being Discina perlata and Gomphus clavatus).

I just spent the weekend leading beginners around in the woods and trying to teach a little of the basics of identification, and common names can also really confuse some people. Of course, even the Latin names don't always help. Those of us trying to teach were referring to them as "fucking Cortinarius" among ourselves from being asked so many times what kind of mushroom somebody had found and some people just could not grasp what they were supposed to look at.

I also could have gotten Else's exact pronunciation wrong, it's not like I was conducting an interview. Certainly the idea that people in other countries pronounce these names in very different ways would probably be a shock to some people.

Do you get much chance to interact with the professional mycologists there? I'll admit to a bit of curiosity about Noordeloos - I've read several of his monographs in Flora Agaricina Neerlandica.





...and for those of you who seem to be asking how to pronounce Psilocybe, the current style seems to be "sigh-loss-uh-bee", with the emphasis on the second syllable. If it were up to me it would be different, but I use the name for communication and if I say it too differently then people misunderstand what I'm saying.

Happy mushrooming!


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Happy mushrooming!

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Re: You don't say? [Re: ToxicMan]
    #8825632 -

huh. I always thought it as; si-lu-sibe

haha, yours sounds better though :cool:


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Edited by Abuse (08/25/08 03:48 PM)

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Re: You don't say? [Re: Abuse]
    #8825726 -

no, it's sih loss uh bee, or sigh loss uh bee... otherwise Clitocybe would sound dirty... hehe


--------------------
If you want to find psilocybin in species that are not yet known to be psychoactive, you should do chemical tests. That way you won't get sick and die all the time.
- Alan Rockefeller

Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."
- Philip K. Dick

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Re: You don't say? [Re: ToxicMan]
    #8826774 -

What a thoughtful, time-consuming post.  I appreciate all the information.

I ran into a guy from Southern Indiana at a convention in Chicago and somehow the conversation, as many of my conversation do, turned to mushrooms.  He was telling me about these "spongy tops" and "preacher's dicks."  My ears perked up about the Spongy Tops and yes, they were morels.

:hotidea:

Long story short he invited me to come on down home way and hep him pick some spongy tops.  In the end, he was a wonderful host and let us bring all of them, including his, home to our table--pounds and pounds of them.  We still joke about it.  He was a great guy and wouldn't know or care about how to pronounce a Latin binomial if his life depended on it.

Knew his mushrooms though and showed me the only 'Sang I ever saw.  Great memories.


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Re: You don't say? [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #8826842 -

Awesome link!  Voted yes on the poll.  Nice to know the correct way to say it.  Put the link on my favorite's list.

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Re: You don't say? [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #8864252 -

Senor_Hongos said:
I don't know about a sticky but an inclusion within one of the existing ones might be nice.  Thanks for appreciating it.  I certainly do.  I hate sounding like an idiot when I'm talking to professionals.


82% looks good to me.  Well, moderators, how about it?


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Re: You don't say? [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #8864285 -

I'll never buy into Psilocybe being pronouced "sigh-loss-uh-be". I swear that's just an Americanism like everything else (no offense). Regardless of the correct or incorrect way, I'll continue to say "sill-oh-sigh-be".:shrug:

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Re: You don't say? [Re: wisp]
    #8864448 -

Hmm, the first pronunciation is weird (sigh-loss-uh-be), the second one (sill-oh-sigh-be) I can understand and could imagine myself saying.

I first said it as "sill-oh-see-buh"....

Atm, I don't know, I've been sitting here repeating "sill-oh-see-buh" and "sill-oh-sigh-be" over and over and now the word just sounds stupid :P
I hate when I do that.

Nice link though, good to see how wrong I was with all the pronunciations.

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Re: You don't say? [Re: ToxicMan]
    #8865631 -

ToxicMan said:
koraks, I can definitely sympathize with using common names instead of Latin. The biggest problem here is that there are also regional common names. "Pig Ears" is used here for so many different mushrooms in different places that it makes for a great example of where common names can go wrong (2 examples being Discina perlata and Gomphus clavatus).


I agree. It's as simple as that. :smile: Although I must say that in most Dutch and German guides I use, there are distinctions between similar species within the same genus. Usually the names are varied through the use of a different prefix that either describes a specific property of the species such as an aspect of its appearance, its use or the species it grows on/with.

Quote:
Those of us trying to teach were referring to them as "fucking Cortinarius" among ourselves from being asked so many times what kind of mushroom somebody had found and some people just could not grasp what they were supposed to look at.


Hehehe, naturally they didn't understand where to look. The correct Latin name would have been cortinarius copulatus :wink:

Quote:
Do you get much chance to interact with the professional mycologists there? I'll admit to a bit of curiosity about Noordeloos - I've read several of his monographs in Flora Agaricina Neerlandica.


I must admit I don't, as I don't really revolve in those circles, so to speak. That's why I have to revert to common names in many cases, even if I often don't even know the common names...

Quote:
...and for those of you who seem to be asking how to pronounce Psilocybe, the current style seems to be "sigh-loss-uh-bee", with the emphasis on the second syllable.


If I understand you correctly, this would actually be the German pronunciation. In German, the 'y' is pronounced 'úh' (a bit like the 'e' in 'new'). If you refer to the German pronunciation style, the first syllable would be a short and upward-pitched 'i' as opposed to the stretched and downward-pitched 'i' like in 'sigh'. Again, that's if I understand correctly what you're trying to convey. Wish I could properly write phonetics...

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Re: You don't say? [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #8865669 -

Quote:
82% looks good to me.  Well, moderators, how about it?


I don't like stickies because always miss the posts in those threads.

Also I don't think the pronunciation is very important. 

I know a latin teacher and he knows the correct pronunciations for all the latin names.  He reports that none of the mycologists have any idea what he is talking about when he pronounces them "correctly" so he goes with the mycological pronunciations on the latin names.  Also the english pronunciations of Latin are always wrong, it is a little but more more correct to pronounce them using the spanish grammar rules, but that also leads to no one knowing what you are talking about. 

Any way you can say it and get the point across is the proper way to pronounce Latin species names.

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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Hunting and Identification
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