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Offlineazurescen
meanderinemushie muncher
Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 261
Loc: bellingham wa
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
Re: Fruiting azurescens
    #85669 - 05/18/00 03:37 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

azures aernt compost loving, they are wood chip eaters and the main problem with fruiting them indoors is controlling the temp and gas exchange. alder chips are best. if you cant grow azures in your climate, go with the pan trops instead, which is a compost loving high temp shroom. the high grass plays a role in controling air exchange as well as trapping moisture for humidity. azures living in a clump of dune grass along the columbia in astoria are probably exposed to very little ammonia, but do have lots of humidity as well as LOTS of air exchange, as it is fairly windy down there. also with the psi cyans the temp humidity and air exchange all seem to be critical indoors, hard to accomplish in a fridge, which is cool and dark, but the air is dry and stagnant.


--------------------
if the sign says dont pick the mushrooms, you should probably pick them


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Anonymous

Re: Fruiting azurescens
    #85671 - 05/18/00 04:48 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

If air exchange is what causes azurescens to fruit indoor fruiting shouldn't be a problem if adequate ventilation is provided. The conditions could simply be nailed down to the proper ppm of O2 or CO2 and then readily duplicated, yet everyone claims they're next to impossible to do indoors????

However you mention "dune grass" now unless Astoria's soil is sterile, I imagine there are a bunch of little buggers living along with that dune grass that go by the name of actinomyces.... and if there are well then get this...

While they are decomposing animal and vegetable matter, actinomycetes liberate carbon, nitrogen and ammonia, making nutrients available for higher plants. They are found on every natural substrate, and the majority are aerobic and mesophilic. Five percent or more of the soil's bacterial population is comprised of actinomycetes.

I fully understand that azurescens is a "wood decomposer" that's way I say it requires a casing layer with a high N:C ratio to induce fruiting, unlike compost loving species that favor a high C:N ratio.

I'm suggesting that the carbon to nitrogen ratio plays a key role in the initiation of pinning and primordia formation.... this would explain why mushrooms usually form once the entire substrate has colonized...

I'm not suggesting the dune grass is saturated with ammonia. I'm suggesting the mycelium can sense the C:N & N:C shift in the substrate and that's how they know the substrate is running out of nutrients. Instinct then kicks in and that's how they know it's time to go dormant, fornicate or die.

[This message has been edited by woodsman420 (edited May 19, 2000).]



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OfflineAzure
old hand
Registered: 01/01/99
Posts: 469
Loc: California, USA
Last seen: 15 years, 3 months
Re: Fruiting azurescens
    #85672 - 05/18/00 05:50 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

People are incompetent or don't have the facilities to fruit azures indoors.


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Anonymous

Re: Fruiting azurescens
    #85673 - 05/18/00 06:32 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

azurescen is correct about fruiting azurescens indoors. it's all about the air exchanges and temps. last year i was experimenting with cold weather psilo's in 250ml flasks. i had a wide range of specie's like semilanceata, serbica, azurescens, baeocystis and cyanescens. i got every one to fruit indoors, after about 2 to 6 weeks of refrigeration. excepted for the azurescens, so i tried a couple idea's with temp fluctation and air exchanges. i finally built a box made out of fiberglass that was double walled for insolation, and put a hepa filter and fan with a refrigeration motor. that seemed to of worked o.k. right now i'm trying to build a larger scale version of this refrigerater grow room. zapotec

[This message has been edited by zapotec (edited May 18, 2000).]



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Anonymous

Re: Fruiting azurescens
    #85674 - 05/19/00 09:04 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Hmmm well maybe it is all about air exchange?

Personally I don't have any experience with the azurescens mushroom.

I've just been doing alot of research lately and I've been focusing on the C:N ratios of various substrates. I think 'maybe' this plays some sorta role in fruit initiation and was wondering if anyone else ever bothered to look at the C:N ratios of various substrates and there effect upon growth and/or fruiting.

It seems the C:N ratio of woodchips ranges from 500-100:1, green foliage ranges from 80-30:1 and straw is about 100-40:1. It just seems to me that a layer of grass ontop of wood chips creates to distinct nutritional zones.

Azurescens could very well bee right, I was just throwing out an idea.



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Anonymous

Re: Fruiting azurescens
    #85675 - 05/19/00 11:35 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Could it be that azurescens just needs other bacteria like the infamous Trichoderma (AHHH!! NO!! NO!!!)to fruit. Usualy people take every measure to keep those kinds of bacteria out. But they may have a beneficial effect on fruiting (like some algae like spirulina do) provided they are not allowed to run over the whole substrate or casing. After all, Trich is usualy present in nature. Among with cobweb mold and other lower funghi.
I think woodman is right in acknowledging the beneficial effects of bacteria. Only problem often is indeed, to keep them under control by introducing them at the right moment at the right amounts with the right substrate.
Those are all good analysis boys. Now get back into your laboratories:-)


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Offlineamanita
addict
Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 93
Loc: UK
Last seen: 15 years, 4 months
Re: Fruiting azurescens
    #85676 - 05/19/00 08:15 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

zapotec,

Congratulations on fruiting the semilanceata, serbica and baeocystis indoors! Where did you get these rare cultures and did you take any photos?



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OfflineB.I.O.
old hand
Registered: 05/27/99
Posts: 455
Last seen: 5 years, 9 months
Re: Fruiting azurescens
    #85677 - 05/20/00 12:16 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

hey zapot....i would be more than happy if you could post some pics of your indoor-sucsess....also a few details on fruiting the serbica and semis would be useful

i have at the moment azures, bohemica, baeocystis and cyanes in the fridge....hmmm i just fruited the azures indoors 2 times...

BiO.



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Anonymous

Re: Fruiting azurescens
    #85678 - 05/20/00 12:56 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

amanita and BiO,
i only fruited small flasks of these species. i read up on where they grow and the types substrates they liked to grow on, and tried to make a suitable substrate and climate. i cultured the spores on malt extract agar. after the agar was colonized i transfered agar wedges to the flasks which held the different substrates. they colonized the flask in about four weeks excepted the semilanceata which took six weeks to colonize. then you place the flasks in a refridgerater, and set the temp around 35 to 45 degree's. cold shock the cultures from two to four weeks. once you think they have had a enough take them out, and place in a grow chamber that's between 45 and 65 degree's. they need plenty of air exchanges. sorry never took any pictures. i was really paranoid to get them developed. i guess i was scared of getting busted. i live in the u.s.a. and they don't psilocybin fungi that much. zapotec


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Offlineazurescen
meanderinemushie muncher
Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 261
Loc: bellingham wa
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
Re: Fruiting azurescens
    #85679 - 05/20/00 02:06 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

hey zap, had any luck w/ those mexican cultures you have of the hoogs and zapotecs? I am very interested. If I cant find a good culture of all these soon, I am going to have to make a pilgrimage to oaxaca next june to go find them myself


--------------------
if the sign says dont pick the mushrooms, you should probably pick them


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Anonymous

Re: Fruiting azurescens
    #85680 - 05/20/00 02:39 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

AZURESCENS,
the zapotecorum spores that i obtained were not zapotecs. they were cubensis. it sucked!!!! and the hoogs never germinated.
it looks like i'm going to be treking through mexico too. maybe not this summer but next for sure. zapotec


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OfflineB.I.O.
old hand
Registered: 05/27/99
Posts: 455
Last seen: 5 years, 9 months
Re: Fruiting azurescens
    #85681 - 05/21/00 03:45 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

hmmmm...at the moment im cultivating the hoogs, zapotecs and mazatecorum on whole-millet/compost-mix in jars....i wonder how they like the substrate for fruiting...

BiO.



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Anonymous

Re: Fruiting azurescens
    #85682 - 05/21/00 03:43 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

BiO,
i've heard that zapotecorum grows near or with hard woods. for a fruiting substrate you might want to think about a hard wood and straw compost and a sand base casing. the hoogs i have no idea's on those guy's. i know they like to grow in coffee plantations. i will do some research on the hoogs and post it.
catch ya on the flip side, zapotec



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OfflineMycelium5150
Check theDate!!!!
Registered: 04/06/99
Posts: 541
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
Re: Fruiting azurescens
    #85683 - 05/22/00 04:11 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Ok, Sport, give it a shot, but dont come to the shroomery making claims of growing azures indoors with out any pics.


--------------------
Mad skills, you know this!!!

I am here to Myth Bust


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Anonymous

Re: Fruiting azurescens
    #85684 - 05/22/00 06:26 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

mycelium5150, think what you want. i fruited them in a small 250ml flask. they were small, but they were azures. just because i do not photograph my experiments does not mean that i'm a liar. have you ever fruited a difficult species before? i would like to know and i would like to see pictures!

[This message has been edited by zapotec (edited May 22, 2000).]



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OfflineMycelium5150
Check theDate!!!!
Registered: 04/06/99
Posts: 541
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
Re: Fruiting azurescens
    #85685 - 05/22/00 06:52 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Dip shit...uh i mean zapotec,
Would azure be a difficult species to fruit. Well heres a link to my lil azure patch, which has been exspanded to over 50 square feet. Lets just say i put a 8 inch layer of mulch accross the whole front yard, and mulched around my rhodos and azaleas. What other difficult species would you liek to talk about, how about the cyanescens that are growing in the front yard also. But i didnt cultivate those, they came i iwth the plants.
http://www.sporeworks.com/CalAzure/califazure.htm



--------------------
Mad skills, you know this!!!

I am here to Myth Bust


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OfflineAzure
old hand
Registered: 01/01/99
Posts: 469
Loc: California, USA
Last seen: 15 years, 3 months
Re: Fruiting azurescens
    #85686 - 05/23/00 07:19 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Mycelium5150, azures aren't difficult to fruit outdoors provided the weather treats you well. The mycelium isn't hard to propagate either(no harder than cubes).


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OfflineMycelium5150
Check theDate!!!!
Registered: 04/06/99
Posts: 541
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
Re: Fruiting azurescens
    #85687 - 05/24/00 01:29 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Azure, did i say anythihng about them being hard to fruit?
If you would have read the prior post you would have realized that zapotec was asking what dificult species have i grown and i was asking if azures would be considered a dificult one.
Azure, before you jump into someone elses business, make sure you have a clear understanding of whats going on


--------------------
Mad skills, you know this!!!

I am here to Myth Bust


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OfflineB.I.O.
old hand
Registered: 05/27/99
Posts: 455
Last seen: 5 years, 9 months
Re: Fruiting azurescens
    #85688 - 05/24/00 04:04 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

my indoor-azures are doing their 3rd flush now, after living for a few weeks in the fridge they started ploppin again....not many, but the prints from them are very clean and good for making syringes...

BiO.



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Anonymous

Re: Fruiting azurescens
    #85689 - 05/25/00 04:43 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

B.I.O.-if you make some azure syrenges,are you gonna sell any?let me know if you decide to,or if you wanna trade,i got cases of medical supplies(rubber gloves,surgeons masks,disposabel scalpels,test tubes,cultures,etc.)


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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Advanced Mycology

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