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Invisiblesolidstate
journeyman
Registered: 04/09/00
Posts: 56
Re: how to fruit ps. tampanensis?
    #84670 - 04/10/00 03:06 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

what Im currently working with is rye grass spawn innoculated to pastuerized horse dung in oven bags...a little over 1 week from innoc, bags are mostly colonized...looking good...plan to dump into trays & case @1/2" w/ 50/50+...


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Offline3Mshroom
old hand

Registered: 04/03/00
Posts: 497
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
Re: how to fruit ps. tampanensis?
    #84672 - 04/10/00 02:04 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

It could be that you have a degenerated strain of tamps. What substrate are you using? I have found that if you are growing for stones on brown rice the standard pf tek works but if you are growing for fruits you need to increase the moisture to around 80 ml per half pint.
The degenerated strains have a habit of making stones but no fruit or weak and malformed fruits.
Humidity has to be around 95% to initiate pinning and can be dropped to 85% once pins start.

------------------
Be sure to check out www.3mshrooms.homestead.com for your spore needs



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Corruptissima republicae, plurimae leges
Illegitumus non carborundum


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Offlinephree_1
Stranger
Registered: 06/03/01
Posts: 64
Last seen: 16 years, 25 days
Re: how to fruit ps. tampanensis?
    #84673 - 04/10/00 08:23 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

the key to fruiting tamps is, alot of air exchange.
cubys don't need as much air exchange to fruit.
tamps need all the fresh air you can give, or they will just overlay the casing


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Offline3Mshroom
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Registered: 04/03/00
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Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
Re: how to fruit ps. tampanensis?
    #84674 - 04/10/00 10:02 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Oops forgot about the air exchange. yeah that correct and I would also suggest that you keep the temps around 80 for mycelium and drop it to no higher than 75 for fruiting

------------------
Be sure to check out www.3mshrooms.homestead.com for your spore needs



--------------------
Corruptissima republicae, plurimae leges
Illegitumus non carborundum


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Anonymous

Re: how to fruit ps. tampanensis?
    #84675 - 04/10/00 11:37 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

thank you very much for all the tips.
zapotec



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Anonymous

Re: how to fruit ps. tampanensis?
    #84676 - 04/10/00 11:49 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

I have a couple questions about tamp sclerotia formation...

1. Did you say pf substrate? Really?

2. Will they form sclerotia on straw?

3. How long until sclerotia reach there maxium size? Is there a diminishing returns thing going on...Where they grow big for 2 months and then slowly get a bit bigger but it takes 1 year or something..

4. If you remove sclerotia from the substrate, will more form? If not, would they just need more moiture or more nutrients or something (suplementation)?

Thanks.
ThE JafF

[This message has been edited by ThE JafF (edited April 10, 2000).]



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Offline3Mshroom
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Registered: 04/03/00
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Re: how to fruit ps. tampanensis?
    #84677 - 04/11/00 11:40 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

The sclerotia is actually a survival mechanism. You can rehydrate dry stones and culture them.
It is a modified PF tek using whole rice as opposed to flour and yes it will work. Try mixing one jar the next time that you innoculate
The stones max out by about 8 weeks. I am not 100% sure of this but I believe that the stones are formed when the mycelium differentiates during the colonization stage. Once your cake reaches 100% colonization it won't produce more stones and if it does they are small.
Mexicanas on the other hand will produce stones in as little as 3 weeks but I used to let them go for 6

------------------
Be sure to check out www.3mshrooms.homestead.com for your spore needs



--------------------
Corruptissima republicae, plurimae leges
Illegitumus non carborundum


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Anonymous

Re: how to fruit ps. tampanensis?
    #84678 - 04/12/00 02:05 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

I got into this discussion with someone else recently... If you used something other than vermiculite and brown rice flour, then it isn't the pf tek...

Are you saying JUST whole grain brown rice, or is there vermiculite mixed in? That is actually why I was so supprised when you said pf tek... I thought tamp required kernels of substrate, rice, berries, etc... I didn't think it would form sclerotia in rice flour and vermiculite... Oh well..

Any thoughts on my other questions? Anyone?

ThE JafF



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Offline3Mshroom
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Registered: 04/03/00
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Re: how to fruit ps. tampanensis?
    #84679 - 04/12/00 03:50 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

whole grain rice with verm in the same ratios as the pf tek. The tamps like whole grains but they need to breathe to. Rice is to starchy and tends to clump. The verm fixes this. The rice isn't as prone to contamination as the grains and is easier for newbies. Like I said, try it in one jar and you will see that there is very little difference in potency

------------------
Be sure to check out www.3mshrooms.homestead.com for your spore needs



--------------------
Corruptissima republicae, plurimae leges
Illegitumus non carborundum


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Offlinephree_1
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Last seen: 16 years, 25 days
Re: how to fruit ps. tampanensis?
    #84680 - 04/12/00 09:06 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Are you wanting to cultivate sclerotia or fruit bodies? The techniques are differnet for growing stones, than they would be for growing fruit bodies.
If you just want to produce stones, I suggest going to quart jars.
Use some type of grain(wheat, rye, white or brown rice)
3Mshroom is correct, Brown rice doesn't clump as bad as white rice does.
If you wanna fruit Tamp, then you need a fruitable strain.(The sporeworks has prints)
A easy method is to use 8 oz. jars with a substrate, then use the PF vermiculite seal tek.
When colonized crumble cake and case!
Substrates that work-
100% Manure or it can be mixed with vermiculite, and optional brown rice flour and birdseed.
Don't forget about AIR EXCHANGE!

[This message has been edited by phree_1 (edited April 12, 2000).]



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Anonymous

Re: how to fruit ps. tampanensis?
    #84681 - 04/13/00 01:01 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Well... I was interested in the various substrates for stone production... I just had never heard of PF like mixes being used so it seemed pretty interesting..

Also any idea on the diffences in yield between tampanensis and mexicana? How about potency? Any source of prints without breaking the bank?

ThE JafF



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Offlinephree_1
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Re: how to fruit ps. tampanensis?
    #84682 - 04/13/00 08:59 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

I have never heard of the PF mixes being used either. They do seem very interesting.
The PF mixes are probally lower yielding, though I never tried it. They would be alot more contam resistant as 3Mshroom pointed out.
3Mshroom also pointed out that the PF mixes would be alot easier for newbies.
Anymore info 3Mshroom?
ThE JafF- you should do some cultures and develop a strain for sclerotia production and a second strain for fruitbodies. If you don't, you will have to buy prints over and over. This can get expensive.


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Anonymous

Re: how to fruit ps. tampanensis?
    #84683 - 04/13/00 10:16 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

My limited exeriences with tamps, YMMV:

Best fruiting substrate is 2:1 fresh shredded horse dung/vermiculite. Loaded PF style with pure verm. cap layer and pressure cooked, spore syringe or mycelium water innoculation. 50/50+ casing 1/2 inch thick when fully colonized. I like to case in the same jar as incubation, not to birth and crumble. I think the disturbance of the mycelia is detrimental in this species.

Best "stone" substrate is rye grass seed, just like Stamets sez. Whole brown rice and whole rye are usable, but inferior. Precook the rye grass seed to proper moisture content and load into jars, 1/2 full. Pressure cook sterilize. Innoculate any method (agar, mycelium water, spores. I like liquid syringe teks because of handiness). After full colonization incubate jars in total darkeness for 2 months. I have found applying a thick 1 inch sterile casing (50/50+)as soon as fully colonized can really help yield of stones, but isn't absolutely necessary.

PF type flour/verm substrates are very inferior for both fruiting and stones. I also had very poor results with "Alien" substrate with tamps.

DD



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Offline3Mshroom
old hand

Registered: 04/03/00
Posts: 497
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
Re: how to fruit ps. tampanensis?
    #84684 - 04/14/00 12:36 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

There are definately more productive teks than using the brown rice. Grass seed and rye are right up there but it is an easy and familiar way for someone with limited experience to have some success.
The potency is fairly even with rye grass seed but your substrate will deplete faster. If you manage to isolate a fruiting strain and a stone strain, I would strongly recomend making some slants and storing the strains as well as doing multispore innoculations.
As far as a comparison between mexicana and the tamps, the mexicanas take it hands down, in my book. Faster stones, more stones and are easier to fruit. The mexicana strain that I had was two generations away from wild and was very robust so maybe I was just spoiled

------------------
Be sure to check out www.3mshrooms.homestead.com for your spore needs



--------------------
Corruptissima republicae, plurimae leges
Illegitumus non carborundum


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Amazon Shop: ½ Pint Jars, Agar, Brown Rice Flour, Paul Stamets, Rye Grain, Vermiculite, Wild Bird Seed

Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Advanced Mycology

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