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InvisibleZippoZM
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straw log thoery, huge fruits
    #1891867 - 09/07/03 09:29 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

now i know that psilocibe cubensis is kinda picky, it needs fresh o2 light and a temp reduction to fruit. now if i were to make a straw log with black plastic, so no light can get through the plastic, i do believe that the mush would only fruit from the holes made for ventilation and that one would never have to remove the log from the plastic tubing?!

you might have to use the forced air idea with a heppa to properly oxigenate, but it would be a good expierement.


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"in times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings - artists, scientists, clowns, and philosophers - to create order. In such times as ours however, when there is too much order, too much m management, too much programming and control, it becomes the duty of superior men and women and women to fling their favorite monkey wrenches into the machinery. To relieve the repression of the human spirit, they must sow doubt and disruption"

"People do it every day, they talk to themselves ... they see themselves as they'd like to be, they don't have the courage you have, to just run with it."


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: straw log thoery, huge fruits [Re: ZippoZ]
    #1893980 - 09/08/03 01:47 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Tried that. It fruits where it wants and nothing you can do about it. More fruits actually formed away from the holes than near them.


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InvisibleZippoZM
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Re: straw log thoery, huge fruits [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #1894618 - 09/08/03 04:22 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

did you use a light proof plastic?
being that the mush is phototropic i dont see how they can form without light


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"in times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings - artists, scientists, clowns, and philosophers - to create order. In such times as ours however, when there is too much order, too much m management, too much programming and control, it becomes the duty of superior men and women and women to fling their favorite monkey wrenches into the machinery. To relieve the repression of the human spirit, they must sow doubt and disruption"

"People do it every day, they talk to themselves ... they see themselves as they'd like to be, they don't have the courage you have, to just run with it."


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Anonymous

Re: straw log thoery, huge fruits [Re: ZippoZ]
    #1895478 - 09/08/03 08:24 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

What you need is to isolate a CO2 sensitive substrain of P. cubensis.





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Anonymous

Re: straw log thoery, huge fruits [Re: ZippoZ]
    #1895491 - 09/08/03 08:31 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I don't know anyone who has ever grown P. cubensis in complete darkness for it's entire lifecycle to even know how Absolute light exposure is as a pinning factor.

The system you are designing works with CO2 sensitive substrains, that only fruit from mycelium exposed to increased oxygen. The substrains that will never, ever fruit invitro when all the nutrients have been consumed in the substrate, no oxygen has been allowed in, and temperature has been dropped. Might be dificult to find the substrain in P. cubensis.

I would start with the gulf coast strain. It seems to be the most sensitive strain I have observed. That is just me though.


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: straw log thoery, huge fruits [Re: ]
    #1898688 - 09/09/03 05:21 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I also wonder why one would want to reduce harvest by 90% just to avoid having to cut off the plastic. It's not that much work. Use clear plastic, and let the damn thing pin like there's no tomorrow!


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OfflineExtravagantDream
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Re: straw log thoery, huge fruits [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #1898964 - 09/09/03 06:25 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

First off, where do you get this magic number of 90%?

The point of having a log pin from designated points is control. A controlled substrate will produce much better flushed overall for several reasons. One of which, a log that has pinned "like there's no tomorrow" will not be able support all of the fruits, therefor creating aborts and slow growth among the fighting rest.

Of course some of use will obtain immaculate flushes from such an enormous pin set, perhaps by luck or true skill but when a pin set exceeds in size greater than a substrate can support, no amount of skill can rescue the dying bunch.


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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: straw log thoery, huge fruits [Re: ExtravagantDream]
    #1899788 - 09/09/03 09:19 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

you flatter yourself if you think you can 'control' where pins form.


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OfflineExtravagantDream
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Re: straw log thoery, huge fruits [Re: Hippie3]
    #1899824 - 09/09/03 09:28 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

HAHA.. I never said I can control this, I merely suggest this to be the reason for using holes. Thinking to a regular casing, I in fact, can control the general area where pins will be formed.

As long as the plastic bag is thick, non-transparant, and snug around the log, pins should only form at and immediatly surrounding the holes. I also suggest the last of the three requirements is the most important and is where people fail most often. I admit it is difficult to accomplish as substrate shrinks.


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InvisibleZippoZM
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Re: straw log thoery, huge fruits [Re: ExtravagantDream]
    #1901223 - 09/10/03 07:12 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)




Quote:

you flatter yourself if you think you can 'control' where pins form.




psilocibe cubensis is a phototropic mushroom, that means that for pins to form there must be light on the area they pin from. one can controll pinning (theoretically) by not allowing light to touch certain parts of the substrate.


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PEACE

:mushroom2:zippoz:mushroom2:



"in times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings - artists, scientists, clowns, and philosophers - to create order. In such times as ours however, when there is too much order, too much m management, too much programming and control, it becomes the duty of superior men and women and women to fling their favorite monkey wrenches into the machinery. To relieve the repression of the human spirit, they must sow doubt and disruption"

"People do it every day, they talk to themselves ... they see themselves as they'd like to be, they don't have the courage you have, to just run with it."


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InvisibleZildjian
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Re: straw log thoery, huge fruits [Re: ExtravagantDream]
    #1901317 - 09/10/03 09:06 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

ExtravagantDream said:
a log that has pinned "like there's no tomorrow" will not be able support all of the fruits, therefore creating aborts and slow growth among the fighting rest.






It says in the cultivator that a substrate can only support the growth of so many mushrooms. By having a large pin-set, although many may abort, and the fully developed mushrooms may be smaller, the overall wet weight will be greater than with fewer, bigger mushrooms.

I guess you don't care about the total weight here, you care about size of mushroom. Why not try a deeper casing to increase shrooms to volume of substrate ratio? Wouldn't that be easier?



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OfflineExtravagantDream
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Re: straw log thoery, huge fruits [Re: Zildjian]
    #1902663 - 09/10/03 05:28 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

The idea is to avoid aborts and find that limit of high yield per flush. Aborts are wasteful nutrients in most cases and are a pain to remove in high numbers.

The intention is not to grow large mushrooms but to have both high quality and quantity. Even if monstrosities were grown by using a small pin set, the final yield will be approximately the same once the substrate has been depleted of nutrients.


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: straw log thoery, huge fruits [Re: ZippoZ]
    #1903677 - 09/11/03 01:58 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zippoz said:



[psilocibe cubensis is a phototropic mushroom, that means that for pins to form there must be light on the area they pin from. one can controll pinning (theoretically) by not allowing light to touch certain parts of the substrate. 




Not exactly.  How many times have we all dumped a tray to find lots of mushrooms on the bottom where they never got any light?  Good theory, but in practice cubies will fruit wherever they choose. 


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Invisiblepoke smot!
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Re: straw log thoery, huge fruits *DELETED* [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #1904410 - 09/11/03 08:23 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Post deleted by poke smot!

Reason for deletion: x



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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: straw log thoery, huge fruits [Re: poke smot!]
    #1904417 - 09/11/03 08:29 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

yet, they still do.
i think the light causes a chemical change that affects all connected mycellia within several inches, triggering pinning.



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OfflineExtravagantDream
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Re: straw log thoery, huge fruits [Re: Hippie3]
    #1906958 - 09/11/03 09:00 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

"i think the light causes a chemical change that affects all connected mycellia within several inches, triggering pinning."

I could agree with that. I think fresh air influences pinning much more.


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Offlineanotherdirtywop
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Re: straw log thoery, huge fruits [Re: ExtravagantDream]
    #1908779 - 09/12/03 08:24 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

You can see this happening by duct taping the outside of a colonized jar and allowing it to fruit from the top of the jar. I like your idea....


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OfflinePooPs
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Re: straw log thoery, huge fruits [Re: anotherdirtywop]
    #1908873 - 09/12/03 10:04 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

If you get pins from the bottom of your casings,,, your casing tray is NOT opaque.

Look at it from the inside ( when it's empty :tongue: ) and in front of a ligth bulb and i bet you see some light.


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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: straw log thoery, huge fruits [Re: ExtravagantDream]
    #1908874 - 09/12/03 10:04 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

ExtravagantDream said:
I think fresh air influences pinning much more.



all the air in the world won't trigger pins
unless there is light.
so i'd have to say light is more influential,
at least in the beginning.


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OfflineExtravagantDream
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Re: straw log thoery, huge fruits [Re: Hippie3]
    #1908962 - 09/12/03 11:01 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Besides the fact that I can keep substrate in sealed bags exposed to light for weeks upon weeks and not a single pin will form. So perhaps not all the light in the world can work there either. Moreover, what does no light really mean? Do you believe that absolutely no light will protrude to the bottom of a casing? It would be extremely difficult to prove that light has no influence since it's always around. Since light is always around, its influences become arbitrary and can be disregarded in most practical instances.


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