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Re: Man jailed after trying to fool drug test a second time [Re: grimR]
    #8289978 -

I would say that Cannabis is not a gate way drug. The drug scene is a "gateway" scene. After all, if a dealer is going to make profit, it's in their best interest to get people to buy their product.

Let's face it. By deeming cannabis sale, purchase and use to be illegal, it's potential to generate income can attract unsavory characters. Certain types of individuals might see the lucrative potential in diversifying their product selection, thus peddling harder drugs.

If it were a regulated industry, like alcohol or tobacco, one could walk into the store and make a purchase without any external influence to purchase other drugs. Aren't alcohol and tobacco companies just socially accepted drug dealers after all? Is it really a worse deed to smoke a joint as compared drinking a six pack or smoking a pack of cigarettes? You tell me.

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Re: Man jailed after trying to fool drug test a second time [Re: weakace]
    #8290693 -

As long as people use drugs, people are going to sell drugs. Take marijuana off the menu and you have lots of other fun drugs to try. Kids are still going to smoke just as much pot, if not more if its legal as more people will have access to it. People are always going to want to experiment, and drug use statistics aren't going to go down unless our society does a 180 in a completely different direction. We do need to educate people about the harms of drugs, and marijuana has very few. I really don't think most people believe that marijuana is a physically harmful drug anymore, I believe that people think it makes you lazy and is a drug losers take. You're going to have a really hard time debunking that argument, as marijuana isn't exactly the most motivating substance you can use.


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Re: Man jailed after trying to fool drug test a second time [Re: fapjack]
    #8290922 -

I'll take the unmotivated effect of MJ over the impaired effect of alcohol any day.

At least with weed you have a better idea of your limitations. Alcohol makes people think they are invincible.

I'd love for the drug czar to look me in the face and explain to me how weed is more dangerous.


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The bottom line is if we can't trust what they tell us, we have to figure it out for ourselves.

The blatant dishonesty of it all is what really turns my stomach.

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Re: Man jailed after trying to fool drug test a second time [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #8291048 -

b0red5tiff said:
this time when the bag sprung a leak as he stood in a county office June 19 waiting to be tested, sending his friend's urine spilling down his leg as a probation officer looked on.


:lol: Poor guy. It pisses me off the bullshit they put him through for having some plant material in his possession.

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Re: Man jailed after trying to fool drug test a second time [Re: weakace]
    #8291342 -

I'd be more motivated going to work drunk than high. I'd do a much better job high though, and would probably get into a fight with my boss if I was drunk. Obviously alcohol is much more dangerous than marijuana, but most people don't smoke weed, so most people don't care if it remains illegal. When it becomes a big issue, we will hopefully see it become legalized. I'd like to think that its getting there.


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Re: Man jailed after trying to fool drug test a second time [Re: fapjack]
    #8292530 -

fapjack said:
I strongly disagree, the vast majority of people that try marijuana do not go on to try anything else. The vast majority of marijuana dealers do not sell anything other than marijuana, and the fact remains that many legal drugs are abused more than illegal drugs, and many legal/prescription drugs (DXM, pain medication, benzos) are consistent with illegal drug use. Illegal drug use will always be there, and the #s aren't going to change that much just like people won't change that much. That argument for legalization purposes is extremely flawed and really doesn't have any good data behind it. Yeah less people in Holland use hard drugs and marijuana, but its a different country and a different culture. Using them for the sake of that argument is like using Saudi Arabia for the sake of full out prohibition. I never tried any illegal drug because my dealer also had it, I sought after it and obtained it myself. People aren't that fucking stupid, its curiosity that brings people to try other drugs, not peer pressure and it sure as hell isn't because "My dealer also has smack". DARE had more to do with me trying LSD, mushrooms, and cocaine then my drug dealer did. Biggest problem with that argument though is you are obviously only advocating marijuana legalization. To argue marijuana legalization without including a full end to the drug war really weakens your argument.


I'm not talking about marijuana being a gateway drug for educated drug seekers. I'm talking about exposing the kids from the hood who have no access to places like Erowid to people who know another crack buyer means another $500 a week.

Sure, you can argue that 'maybe they would go seek it out anyway!'. Any maybe they would. But the fact is marijuana- and in fact, even crack- is easier for many kids to get their hands on than booze is in today's world. I'm not suggesting we keep other drugs illegal either (see quote).

I said:
IMO, we should get marijuana out of there right away- at least that way the naive won't be exposed to harder things without trying to be- while we continue discussing whether the dehumanizing and rights violations over other drugs are really worth the nothing they accomplish.


Sometimes once you have a wedge in the door it's easier to push it open all the way. Demonstrating that the government was wrong about marijuana- a schedule 1- will go a long way to dismantling their entire argument.


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Know your self.
Know your substance.
Know your source.

The most distorted perspective possible is the perspective that yours is not distorted.

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Re: Man jailed after trying to fool drug test a second time [Re: ExplosiveMango]
    #8292642 -

ExplosiveMango said:
Sometimes once you have a wedge in the door it's easier to push it open all the way. Demonstrating that the government was wrong about marijuana- a schedule 1- will go a long way to dismantling their entire argument.


I agree, but you don't have to argue against something you believe in. This drug war causes much more pain than drug addiction ever could, and I refuse to support it at any level, whether it be to say legalize marijuana so less people use more dangerous drugs (which is implying IMO that they should remain illegal.) Dunno, but thats just me.


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Re: Man jailed after trying to fool drug test a second time [Re: fapjack]
    #8294076 -

Huh?
Are you catching my argument that you can argue marijuana should be legal at the same time as arguing there should be no drug war in general?

It's better to push on all fronts, I don't see any advantage to refusing to accept some legalization while you wait for the rest.


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Know your self.
Know your substance.
Know your source.

The most distorted perspective possible is the perspective that yours is not distorted.

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Re: Man jailed after trying to fool drug test a second time [Re: ExplosiveMango]
    #8294230 -

Nice point Mango. An all or nothing philosophy is detrimental to the entire argument. All substances are different and should be treated differently.

I personally believe that drug use is a victimless crime and should be legal, however laws should be made while considering the overall society. And the punishment should fit the crime.


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The bottom line is if we can't trust what they tell us, we have to figure it out for ourselves.

The blatant dishonesty of it all is what really turns my stomach.

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Re: Man jailed after trying to fool drug test a second time [Re: ExplosiveMango]
    #8294321 -

ExplosiveMango said:
It's better to push on all fronts, I don't see any advantage to refusing to accept some legalization while you wait for the rest.


I refuse to argue for just marijuana legalization, I think the argument for a full out end to the drug war is a much stronger argument. What it all comes down to is the government has no right to prohibit substances because of the physical harm it does to individuals. It has nothing to do with marijuana not being a dangerous drug, it has to do with personal freedom. I honestly believe that most of the people that want marijuana to be legalized don't want an end to the drug war, and I honestly don't see anyone that supports the drug war as an ally in anyway. It would be nice to see marijuana be legalized, but its far from what my goal is. I think arguing for only legalization of marijuana is in a way counter productive to the bigger picture.


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Re: Man jailed after trying to fool drug test a second time [Re: fapjack]
    #8294637 -

If you won the lottery but had to split it ten ways would you refuse to accept your portion because you wanted the whole thing?

All or nothing gets you nothing far more often than it gets you all.

The Mona Lisa started with a single brush stroke.


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The bottom line is if we can't trust what they tell us, we have to figure it out for ourselves.

The blatant dishonesty of it all is what really turns my stomach.

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Re: Man jailed after trying to fool drug test a second time [Re: ExplosiveMango]
    #8295075 -

ExplosiveMango said:
Land of the free, home of the brave.
Show us what's inside your body or get locked in a cage.

Keep those drugs out of your mind.
Think what we say or else it's a crime.


Wow, did you write that? I like it. I got very pissed reading it.

Edited by MOTH (04/17/08 08:16 AM)

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Re: Man jailed after trying to fool drug test a second time [Re: MOTH]
    #8295171 -

> All substances are different and should be treated differently.

It's not a question of what the substance is. You either have a right to make health choices about what goes into your body or you don't. Either you own and have rights to your body or the government has controll over it.


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It drinks the alcohol and abstains from the weed or else it gets the hose again. -Chemy

The difference between the substances doesn't matter. This is a war on consciousness, on our right to the very essence of what we are. With no control over that, we have no need to speak of freedom or a free society. -fireseed

"If we are going to have a war on marijuana, the least we can do is pull the sick and the dying off the battlefield." -Neal Levine (MPP)

I find the whole "my drug should be legal but yours should be illegal" mindset disgusting and hypocritical. It's what George Bush and company do when they drink a cocktail and debate the best way to imprison marijuana users. -Diploid

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Re: Man jailed after trying to fool drug test a second time [Re: weakace]
    #8295174 -

No it would be more along the lines of if someone owed me $1000 bucks I wouldn't ask for $100, I'd say "Fuck you give me my money". If they gave me $100 I'd say "Ok, where the fuck is the rest of it". They aren't giving anything, they are returning our rights. I understand your logic quite well, but marijuana legalization isn't my goal, an end to the drug war is. I would be quite happy to be able to legally smoke marijuana, and it would be nice to see a lot of the people in prison on marijuana charges released, but its just not enough for me.


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Re: Man jailed after trying to fool drug test a second time [Re: fapjack]
    #8295650 -

Quote:
fapjack said:
it would be nice to see a lot of the people in prison on marijuana charges released, but its just not enough for me.


It doesn't have to be enough, it just has to be a start.

It doesn't matter how right you may be if nobody is listening. The second you start talking about legalizing Heroin, Coke people dismiss you as a radical, or a lunitic.

The idea of air travle was once thought to be impossible, now we send people to the moon. If they had started out trying to go to the moon without first understanding the physics of hang-gliding I doubt they would have gotten very far.

I admire your conviction, but the goal should be to actually make something happen. And it doesn't matter how right you are while you scream and beat your chest, people are going to feel threatened. Unless they can be shown incrementally that they should rethink things people will just think it's to dangerous for society at large. Only when they see that they were wrong about one thing,will they be willing to consider that they were wrong about everything.


--------------------
The bottom line is if we can't trust what they tell us, we have to figure it out for ourselves.

The blatant dishonesty of it all is what really turns my stomach.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Man jailed after trying to fool drug test a second time [Re: weakace]
    #8301183 -

I understand your point, but you have to change the world 1 person at a time, and I'm not trying to convince everyone that marijuana should be legal, I'm trying to convince people that drugs as a whole shouldn't be illegal. I can't even change most of my friends minds, but I still try. Libertarians probably aren't going to win, but I'll still vote for them. People rallied around Ron Paul knowing he was the under dog, but you have to start somewhere.


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