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Shop: Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: raw spiritual rambling [Re: redgreenvines]
    #8269174 -

are you walking in a map of the world, or are you walking in the physically sensed world.

This has been much on my mind lately. The quest for spirit may be no more than an attempt to shed the strangle hold of the internal dialog, paying attention to everyday life rather than a pie in the sky spirituality. A practical yet nearly unattainable task for most. As evidence of this we can see the convoluted directions the idea of spirituality goes, caught once again in the mental gymnastics of the internal dialog.


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: raw spiritual rambling [Re: Icelander]
    #8269471 -

Icelander said:
The quest for spirit may be no more than an attempt to shed the strangle hold of the internal dialog, paying attention to everyday life rather than a pie in the sky spirituality. A practical yet nearly unattainable task for most. As evidence of this we can see the convoluted directions the idea of spirituality goes, caught once again in the mental gymnastics of the internal dialog.


Whose idea of spirituality are you talking about?


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Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:

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Re: raw spiritual rambling [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #8269517 -

yours


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: raw spiritual rambling [Re: Icelander]
    #8269555 -

I think it's yours


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Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:

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Re: raw spiritual rambling [Re: Icelander]
    #8269949 -

Icelander said:
are you walking in a map of the world, or are you walking in the physically sensed world.

This has been much on my mind lately. The quest for spirit may be no more than an attempt to shed the strangle hold of the internal dialog, paying attention to everyday life rather than a pie in the sky spirituality. A practical yet nearly unattainable task for most. As evidence of this we can see the convoluted directions the idea of spirituality goes, caught once again in the mental gymnastics of the internal dialog.


sort of
but it's not the dialog that is really the problem -
when it loops,
however,
and this is most easily noticed of all mechanical mental behaviors,
it brings to light that some reflex mechanism is underlying the sleep walking,
and noticing that is part of getting beyond it.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: raw spiritual rambling [Re: redgreenvines]
    #8270054 -

Noticing that you have temporarily ceased to notice?  :wink:

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Re: raw spiritual rambling [Re: redgreenvines]
    #8270095 -

I think it's more than just the loops. It's a misconception of the importance of thought in relationship to reality. We consider thought to be objective evidence of the importance of thinking or we think that things are this or that just because we think that.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: raw spiritual rambling [Re: Icelander]
    #8270340 -

You always have a cool hand, luke.


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Guess what?; You...


A spot of Sunshine: We are energy,... matter is energy that simply has been reduced to a crawl and condensed together to form something.

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Re: raw spiritual rambling [Re: allisthesame]
    #8270620 -

thoughts are dancing ghosts that fool eachother into believing they are dancing well.

are the ghosts even there, or are they just terrible dancers?


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Re: raw spiritual rambling [Re: Icelander]
    #8271096 -

yes thought
recognition
perception
associative mental operations can take a second position to your alertness


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: raw spiritual rambling [Re: Veritas]
    #8272790 -

Veritas said:
Noticing that you have temporarily ceased to notice?  :wink:
____________________________________





this is the part where practicing roles is good.

you notice that you ceased noticing, and come back to noticing without harshness.

handing off from one mind moment to the next as a gentle parent does; and continuing in the next with a child's freshness.

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Re: raw spiritual rambling [Re: krin]
    #8272810 -

krin said:
thoughts are dancing ghosts that fool eachother into believing they are dancing well.

are the ghosts even there, or are they just terrible dancers?


not all ghosts are thoughts and not all thoughts are ghosts.
but all are "emanations" or artifacts of the ongoing dance.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: raw spiritual rambling [Re: redgreenvines]
    #8275256 -

redgreenvines said:

not all ghosts are thoughts and not all thoughts are ghosts.
but all are "emanations" or artifacts of the ongoing dance.


Germans have a word, "Geist" which is pretty much a combination of the two English words "Spirit" and "Ghost.

A major character in the New Testament is known as the Holy Ghost in Old English and as the Holy Spirit in modern English... in German they've always used Geist... ever since Luther translated the Latin Text.

"Poltergeist" is the only English word I can think of that makes use of this distinction. And thanks to the movie of the same name, many Americans sorta' understand the concept of a "Geist".

Using the word "Ghost" in y'all's context can be misleading... but I suppose it is the best word we've got.

"Awareness" is another pickle. It is by my standards, a pretty good definition for "Spirituality"... it keeps the "Spirit" grounded in reality. However, that word too, can be quite misleading... and sometimes can reinforce negative attitudes and behaviors. Everybody thinks they are aware. It a is good word, but not quite perfect. Again, other languages are more nuanced than ours. "Awareness" is perhaps the best SINGLE word to define "Spirituality"... but to properly define the word, you really need to explain a bit more. Not everything is spiritual... but YOUR perception of everything IS spiritual.

"Mechanical" is a vague word, and it does not properly convey the point you wish to make. It has a very negative connotation, what conveyed towards other humans. "Hey, stop being mechanical!". You are not going to make a point to someone, when you are calling them a robot. It strikes people as rude. But again, the point you are making is certainly valid.

Translated Buddhist texts are NOT the best way to explain these concepts to Westerners. The translations talk in metaphors... just like the Bible... and the the way the concepts are explained are often quite outdated. This leads to much confusion.

Westerners use inaccurate labels for many of these Eastern concepts... because that is how they were translated... and taught to our audience. Since the 60's this lingo has done no more good than it has done harm. Most students and teachers aren't effective enough communicators to express these concepts and ideas properly... and they ultimately end up confusing more people than they help.

Westerners are inclined to cling to their ideologies... because it is the Judeo-Christian way... so they far too often forget to TRANSCEND these Eastern concepts.

Buddhism is something that must ultimately be transcended... that is the goal... SO one the KEY thing one must do... is WORK THROUGH BUDDHISM... and TRANSCEND it.

The philosophy of Buddhism acknowledges that you must move BEYOND it.. in order to practice it properly.

Westerners forget to MOVE THROUGH these Eastern concepts... and they far too often cling to these concepts instead of letting them go... just like a Christian Fundamentalist tends to cling to theirs.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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Re: raw spiritual rambling [Re: redgreenvines]
    #8275451 -

that was very well thought out cervantes


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: raw spiritual rambling [Re: Rose]
    #8275591 -

Quote:
Westerners forget to MOVE THROUGH these Eastern concepts... and they far too often cling to these concepts instead of letting them go... just like a Christian Fundamentalist tends to cling to theirs.


No matter how well we've memorized the steps, the fact that we are still counting under our breath & sneaking glances towards our feet keeps giving us away.

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Re: raw spiritual rambling [Re: Veritas]
    #8275602 -

that and the epicanthic folds


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: raw spiritual rambling [Re: redgreenvines]
    #8275611 -

The frequent glances at our feet actually makes their absence less noticeable.  :lol:

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Re: raw spiritual rambling [Re: Veritas]
    #8275889 -

you have magic glances
when you make absent
feet pleasant


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: raw spiritual rambling *DELETED* [Re: Veritas]
    #8275997 -

Post deleted by dorkus

Reason for deletion: .

Edited by dorkus (04/13/08 12:03 AM)

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Re: raw spiritual rambling [Re: Veritas]
    #8276280 -

Quote:
No matter how well we've memorized the steps, the fact that we are still counting under our breath & sneaking glances towards our feet keeps giving us away.



Are you trying to say that if we memorized them without looking down and counting we'd be home free in the transcendence department? Or does transcendence require an absence of memorization altogether as well?


Sometimes I think that the presence of constant mental/emotional insecurity in my life results in me being "awake". I question my motives and my beliefs, as well as those of the people and systems around me, in a constant search for a "solution" or "truth" or a formula and action plan for what "works" in the universe. One of the five hindrances, "restlessness", is very much a part of my life, and I notice it every day, but the questioning and searching don't stop. The discomfort of my need for "solutions" is always there.

Is discomfort required for a spiritual journey or search?


--------------------
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society"
Jiddu Krishnamurti

"That's a marvelous structural technique of propaganda... It is only in folk tales, children's stories, and the journals of intellectual opinion that power is used wisely and well to destroy evil. The real world teaches very different lessons, and it takes willful and dedicated ignorance to fail to perceive them.”
Noam Chomsky

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