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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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evolving's sig
    #816335 -

The way to see by Faith is to shut the eye of Reason - Benjamin Franklin,

funny thing about that...'ol ben was a great meditator...that saying was meant as more of a recommendaion than anything. he used to sit in a soft chair with his eyes closed, with a metal bowl in his lap, and two steel balls in his hand, and then meditate. whenever he'd start to dose off, the balls would fall (clank) and wake him up...
his whole idea about meditating was that you should shut off your logical mind and let your intuision flow...he was a really big believer in gut feelings and intuisions. so basically, "shut your eye of reason, and see by faith."
so if you meant faith is reasonless, just know you've taken that saying way out of context. peace braa.


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Peace and Love to all!

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Re: evolving's sig [Re: whiterastahippie]
    #816338 -

interesting!


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Namaste.

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Re: evolving's sig [Re: whiterastahippie]
    #816369 -

I would have agreed with you some time ago but I have since found what I believe, to be a higher plane of thought. I think that faith and reason go hand and hand. I think the two can peacefully coexist. Many ultra conservative religious fundamentalists will have you believe that reason and science are the enemy of faith. Many hardnosed scientists will have you believe that faith is a obstacle that pollutes objectivity.

I believe that if you are completely honest with yourself about your faith and honest with yourself about the logical inferences that can be made from reason and science that the two can be resolved. I won't bore you with all the details of my philosophy but a book that really helped shape my philosophy is called "Finding Darwins God". Great book for both the faithful and the "reasonable".

P.S. Has anyone else read this book?


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An open mind is the greatest journey of all.

Edited by chemkid (08/13/02 11:56 PM)

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Re: evolving's sig [Re: chemkid]
    #817354 -

i actually totally agree with you...think about it, the left side of your brain is analytical. the right intuisional. but they are one brain...so how can you be totally efficient in your thought and such if you only use one side of your brain?
they sit beside each other in peace inside your head. can't one make peace with that in oneself?


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Peace and Love to all!

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Re: evolving's sig [Re: whiterastahippie]
    #817717 -

so if you meant faith is reasonless, just know you've taken that saying way out of context.

The quote was not taken out of context, it was presented on it's own in Poor Richard's Almanac. Benjamin Franklin was a Deist, from what I gather from his writings he believed in the application of reason even to articles of religious faith and attempts to understand the nature of God. He did not deny faith but subjected it to critical thought in the light of reason. Yours is the only such interpretation of this quote I have encountered (and I can see how it can be read this way). Since I cannot reliably speak for a man long passed from this earth, I will leave you with several quotes from him so as to give you some insight into his way of thinking on matters of religious faith....


"I have found Christian dogma unintelligible. Early in life I absented myself from Christian assemblies."

"Lighthouses are more helpful than churches."

"He [the Rev. Mr. Whitefield] used, indeed, sometimes to pray for my conversion, but never had the satisfaction of believing that his prayers were heard."

"Indeed, when religious people quarrel about religion, or hungry people quarrel about victuals, it looks as if they had not much of either among them."

"In this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes."

"The nearest I can make it out, 'Love your Enemies' means, 'Hate your Friends'."

"I cannot conceive otherwise than that He, the Infinite Father, expects or requires no worship or praise from us, but that He is even infinitely above it."

"I wish it (Christianity) were more productive of good works ... I mean real good works ... not holy-day keeping, sermon-hearing ... or making long prayers, filled with flatteries and compliments despised by wise men, and much less capable of pleasing the Deity."

"My parents had early given me religious impressions, and brought me through my childhood piously in the dissenting [puritan] way. But I was scarce fifteen, when, after doubting by turns of several points, as I found them disputed in the different books I read, I began to doubt of Revelation itself. Some books against Deism fell into my hands; they were said to be the substance of sermons preached at Boyle's lectures. [Robert Boyle (1627-1691) was a British physicist who endowed the Boyle Lectures for defense of Christianity.] It happened that they wrought an effect on me quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations; in short, I soon became a thorough deist"

"Upon one of his [Reverend Whitefield] arrivals from England at Boston, he wrote to me that he should come soon to Philadelphia, but knew not where he could lodge when there, as he understood his old kind host Mr. Benezet was remov'd to Germantown. My answer was; You know my house, if you can make shift with its scanty accommodations you will be most heartily welcome. He reply'd, that if I made that kind offer for Christ's sake, I should not miss of a reward. And I returned, Don't let me be mistaken; it was not for Christ's sake, but for your sake."

"I looked around for God's judgments, but saw no signs of them."

"Like a man traveling in foggy weather, those at some distance before him on the road he sees wrapped up in the fog, as well as those behind him, and also the people in the fields on each side, but near him all appears clear, though in truth he is as much in the fog as any of them." -- From his autobiography, detailing his opinions about the delusions of sects. The only sect Franklin respected was that of the Quakers.

"Religion I found to be without any tendency to inspire, promote, or confirm morality, serves principally to divide us and make us unfriendly to one another."


and may peace be also with you...


Edited by Evolving (08/15/02 12:22 PM)

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Re: evolving's sig [Re: whiterastahippie]
    #817736 -

I also interpreted it like WhiteRastaHippie, but the quotes Evolving posted seem to support his own interpretation...

It depends on what angle you look at it, I suppose.


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:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:

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Re: evolving's sig [Re: ]
    #818927 -

benjamin franklin was a president right?

i don't know many of their names or much about them, but i keep hearing little bits that seem to show that many of these old presidents of the USA were...um...good, thinking, intelligent, strong and brave men.

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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