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zouden
Neuroscientist
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: Gomp]
#9035983 - 10/06/08 06:57 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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lol
-------------------- I know... that just the smallest part of the world belongs to me You know... I'm not a blind man but truth is the hardest thing to see
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kay62105
Stranger
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: zouden]
#9036612 - 10/06/08 10:46 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yeah and we share 90% of our genes with cows, and their shit grows our mushrooms, ooooohhh craaaazzzyyy. Plus I doubt monkeys ate mushrooms way back in the day. Their animal instict would tell them not to eat them. I would never give my dog shrooms, but my boyfriend wanted to see how she would react to them and she wont go near them, and that dog will eat anything.
-------------------- There is nothing worse than a sharp image of a fuzzy concept - Ansel Adams<img src="https://files.shroomery.org/smileys/heart.gif" alt="" title=""/>
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DasKomet
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: Gomp]
#9039206 - 10/06/08 08:48 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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I believe chimps can do psilo and sleep into us, in that their CNS melts into ours and changes our day to day lives. Sitting stupified wondering "Did the monkeys get you?"
Laters, DasKomet
-------------------- The Woven World is all I see. Put cloves in your weed and tell them its for the LSD. .oO0 Listen to White Zombie 0Oo.
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zouden
Neuroscientist
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Posts: 7,091
Loc: Australia
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: kay62105]
#9040145 - 10/07/08 12:10 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Yeah and we share 90% of our genes with cows, and their shit grows our mushrooms, ooooohhh craaaazzzyyy. Plus I doubt monkeys ate mushrooms way back in the day. Their animal instict would tell them not to eat them.
Yeah that's a good point, we don't see them eating mushrooms now.
-------------------- I know... that just the smallest part of the world belongs to me You know... I'm not a blind man but truth is the hardest thing to see
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PookztA
Medical Student
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Posts: 1,225
Loc: Illinois
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HUGE UPDATE: PARAMUTATION! [Re: zouden]
#11003583 - 09/05/09 10:10 AM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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OMG! huge update!!!
i just found out how Epigenetic influences, such as histone acetylation which makes certain genes on our DNA more accessible to transcriptional enzymes so that those genes can be upregulated / transcribed more, can get transfered to the next generation of offspring!
it is called PARAMUTATION! look it up! it involves regulatory RNA molecules, such as siRNA and miRNA. certain RNA molecules get included in the sperm and in the egg, and when they fuse, these regulatory RNA molecules then apply the epigenetic pattern of methylation and acetylation that is found in our somatic cells. This is how epigenetic changes in the frontal cortex, due to mushroom use, could be transferred into the next generation of offspring! this topic of Paramutation is currently blowing up and being researched more and more for its obvious implications involving human evolution!
this means that if mushrooms truly did upregulate genes that code for more neurons and neuronal proteins of the frontal cortex (which would correlate to increased self-awareness and logic of humans)... that certain RNAs that were included in the Sperm and Egg would then apply this same pattern of upregulation in the offspring once fertilization has occurred!
this is how the upregulation of the human frontal cortex genes could be passed onto future offspring!
so maybe we DID evolve in part due to mushroom use!!! who knows though!
-------------------- Abrahm Spreading Psytrance & Love in the Midwest USA Expand Your Consciousness. 9/11 Challenge: Explain the Evidence http://pookzta.blogspot.com
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PookztA
Medical Student
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Re: HUGE UPDATE: PARAMUTATION! [Re: PookztA]
#11003586 - 09/05/09 10:11 AM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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I looked into it some more and Paramutation is definitely the correct term. Another related term is genomic-imprinting, but only paramutation refers to the inheritence and influence of RNA molecules from the parents in order to modify (turn on/off) genes in the offspring.
To simplify: Scientists are learning that an offspring's pattern of gene expression does not only depend on which genes we inherit from our parents. Rather, what also matters significantly is which of those genes we inherit are 'turned on' or 'turned off'. Paramutation refers to the process of inherited RNA molecules which apply the 'on / off' patterns of parental gene regulation to the developing offspring, so that genes which were up-regulated or down-regulated in the parental generation will also be up-regulated or down-regulated in their offspring.
Here's a great BBC article giving a simplification of Epigenetic influence and paramutation:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/5011826.stm
Also, this is from Wikipedia:
Evolution
"Although epigenetics in multicellular organisms is generally thought to be a mechanism involved in differentiation, with epigenetic patterns "reset" when organisms reproduce, there have been many observations of transgenerational epigenetic inheritance (e.g., the phenomenon of paramutation observed in maize).
The possibility remains that multigenerational epigenetics could be another aspect to evolution and adaptation. These effects may require enhancements to the standard conceptual framework of the modern evolutionary synthesis.[32][33]"
Link to wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetic
the point here is: regulatory RNA molecules are inherited from your parents, just as the cytoplasm and mitochondria of the egg the mother contributes and the centrioles of the sperm your father contributes are also inherited by the offspring. These regulatory RNA molecules then modify the DNA of the offspring during development, so that genes which were more expressed or repressed in your parents are also more expressed or repressed in their offspring (DNA acetylation results in certain genes being more accessible and expressed. DNA methylation results in certain genes being less accessible and expressed.)
-------------------- Abrahm Spreading Psytrance & Love in the Midwest USA Expand Your Consciousness. 9/11 Challenge: Explain the Evidence http://pookzta.blogspot.com
Edited by PookztA (09/05/09 10:35 AM)
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ElevatedMinds
Mushroom
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Re: HUGE UPDATE: PARAMUTATION! [Re: PookztA]
#11003779 - 09/05/09 11:07 AM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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I've been into this subject for the last couple months after a really enlightening shroom trip. Thanks for the last post and the rest of the facts.
Just food for thought... I watched this show on Nat Geo about the path of human evoltuion... tracing our genetic roots, I forgot what it was called... We all start off in Africa apparently where Terence Mckenna says the climate changes and we come down from the trees and start finding more food sources... Well they traced the path of human evolution North out of Africa and then splitting east and west into Europe and Asia... If the climate was changing like Terence Mckenna theorizes, then that would explain why evolution would follow the climate north into the wetter regions. They followed the mushroom...
-------------------- Check out my music on Myspace: myspace.com/elevatedminds69
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PookztA
Medical Student
Registered: 09/09/05
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Loc: Illinois
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Quote:
ElevatedMinds said: I've been into this subject for the last couple months after a really enlightening shroom trip. Thanks for the last post and the rest of the facts.
Just food for thought... I watched this show on Nat Geo about the path of human evoltuion... tracing our genetic roots, I forgot what it was called... We all start off in Africa apparently where Terence Mckenna says the climate changes and we come down from the trees and start finding more food sources... Well they traced the path of human evolution North out of Africa and then splitting east and west into Europe and Asia... If the climate was changing like Terence Mckenna theorizes, then that would explain why evolution would follow the climate north into the wetter regions. They followed the mushroom...
wow I never thought about this... i never even thought about why early hominids left Africa... crazy points man, thanks for the insight!
and thanks for reading and giving feedback!
-------------------- Abrahm Spreading Psytrance & Love in the Midwest USA Expand Your Consciousness. 9/11 Challenge: Explain the Evidence http://pookzta.blogspot.com
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: PookztA]
#11003843 - 09/05/09 11:27 AM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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Chimpanzees are the result of their own line of evolution. Obviously, there are still chimpanzees. I read somewhere an account of chimps who were shown, and then given psychedelic mushrooms. They had a terrible time of it. Next time that they were shown common salad mushrooms (Agaricus bisporus), the chimps went ape-shit!
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PookztA
Medical Student
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Posts: 1,225
Loc: Illinois
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
#11003873 - 09/05/09 11:36 AM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: Chimpanzees are the result of their own line of evolution. Obviously, there are still chimpanzees. I read somewhere an account of chimps who were shown, and then given psychedelic mushrooms. They had a terrible time of it. Next time that they were shown common salad mushrooms (Agaricus bisporus), the chimps went ape-shit!
link to the article you are referencing? when was that experiment conducted? how large was the dose? i would imagine the very very first chimpanzee mushroom doses were miniscule.. perhaps even just one mushroom or two... mushrooms have lots of proteins, vitamins, and nutrients in them and are a good source of nutrition... so maybe they were a food source initially?
just as when they tested marijuana on chimpanzees, i am guessing that the dose was unrealistically high. the first chimpanzee ever to eat a mushroom most likely just ate one little mushroom or two, to see the effects. in a world of poisonous animals and berries, i think it is safe to say they would not fill their stomachs until they tested a few fungi to make sure they were not poisonous or toxic....
-------------------- Abrahm Spreading Psytrance & Love in the Midwest USA Expand Your Consciousness. 9/11 Challenge: Explain the Evidence http://pookzta.blogspot.com
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ElevatedMinds
Mushroom
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: PookztA]
#11003939 - 09/05/09 11:55 AM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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Yeah in the lower doses (1 - 2 grams) the effects would only be enough to give them better eyesight, hearing and improved awareness. The chimps that could handle more of these mushrooms survived easier because it enhanced their senses... If they got accustomed to small doses of these mushrooms, then after a while of tolerance build up, they probably had to eat more to get the same effects, causing some chimps to "expand their mind" so to speak... The smarter chimps out-survived the stronger dumber chimps, leading to an evolution of the mind rather than the body.
Quote:
Chimpanzees are the result of their own line of evolution. Obviously, there are still chimpanzees.
That is because not all Chimpanzees were part of this evolutionary process of mushrooms... Only the groups of chimps that ate mushrooms would have evolved, the rest would have stayed the same.
If humans evolve in the future, there will still be normal humans that didn't evolve in the same way, but there will also be humans with whatever our future genetic traits may be. Especially if Terence Mckenna's right... then only a small group of humans that expand their consciousness will pass on those traits...
-------------------- Check out my music on Myspace: myspace.com/elevatedminds69
Edited by ElevatedMinds (09/05/09 12:03 PM)
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PookztA
Medical Student
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Loc: Illinois
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: ElevatedMinds]
#11004763 - 09/05/09 02:58 PM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
ElevatedMinds said: Yeah in the lower doses (1 - 2 grams) the effects would only be enough to give them better eyesight, hearing and improved awareness. The chimps that could handle more of these mushrooms survived easier because it enhanced their senses... If they got accustomed to small doses of these mushrooms, then after a while of tolerance build up, they probably had to eat more to get the same effects, causing some chimps to "expand their mind" so to speak... The smarter chimps out-survived the stronger dumber chimps, leading to an evolution of the mind rather than the body.
Quote:
Chimpanzees are the result of their own line of evolution. Obviously, there are still chimpanzees.
That is because not all Chimpanzees were part of this evolutionary process of mushrooms... Only the groups of chimps that ate mushrooms would have evolved, the rest would have stayed the same.
If humans evolve in the future, there will still be normal humans that didn't evolve in the same way, but there will also be humans with whatever our future genetic traits may be. Especially if Terence Mckenna's right... then only a small group of humans that expand their consciousness will pass on those traits...
well said
-------------------- Abrahm Spreading Psytrance & Love in the Midwest USA Expand Your Consciousness. 9/11 Challenge: Explain the Evidence http://pookzta.blogspot.com
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Minstrel
Man of Science
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 1,974
Loc: Hogtown
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: PookztA]
#11006144 - 09/05/09 09:00 PM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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Chemically, I the interaction of a tryptamine with an organism in order to vary alle frequency would require a very advanced metabolic pathway. Clearly it influences our chemical state, but for it to result in inheritable traits seems to be somewhat of a stretch. I'd be skeptical that it had any direct influence on our evolution from a chemical standpoint.
Now, that being said, any drug can influence the evolution indirectly as an environment pressure. We were undoubtedly exposed to such drugs through our basal ape stages. Our brains are clearly adapted to handle such drugs. Some of us, better than others. Be it overdose resistance, or perhaps being able to utilize the effects of the drugs for dealing with other environmental pressures.
So, that being said, it is not the 'expanding consciousness' that passes on traits, but rather the ones better able to utilize the drug's effects would be more adapt at survival.
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ElevatedMinds
Mushroom
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: Minstrel]
#11006220 - 09/05/09 09:12 PM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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That's true, but beyond just the physical benefits of mushrooms, we have all seen what it does to the mind. One study showed 60% of the first time users said it was the most spiritual and real experience of their life... changing their lives for the better. Now we ain't claiming this is how it happened exactly. But we're saying the missing link in the transition from chimps to humans, might be a substance that only certain chimps in Africa started eating. It would explain alot...
On top of that, look at personal experiences... Look at the level of introspection that psychedelic users have as compared to the anti-drug american. The intelligence level and the thirst for knowledge of most trippers astounds me... I mean, for a bunch of "drug addicts", we sure are some smart motherfuckers. Maybe that's how civilization started.... who know...
-------------------- Check out my music on Myspace: myspace.com/elevatedminds69
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trx
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? *UPDATED 09/05/2009* [Re: PookztA]
#13877367 - 01/30/11 03:40 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Evolve from chimpanzees?
Into what we are now?
In my opinion.. no. The complexities and intelligence that make up any being capable of reading this post can't be explained as coming from JUST the consumption of psilocybin mushrooms.
Do you think feeding a group of chimps psilocybin would accelerate.. or push them into becoming something like more like us? More advanced?
Could mushrooms have played a part in evolution? Well.. i can't disagree with that. Anything that alters our thoughts can make us do something different.. and that could affect our future. Mushrooms responsible? I COULD disagree with that.
Psilocybin is no different from other psychoactive substances... you CAN take TOO MUCH of anything.
Mushrooms can expand your consciousness.. but they can also impair it as well.
Be careful with the notion that psilocybin will make you enlightened.. orbetter.. or make you become more. Very careful!
It simply gives you another way of looking at things.. IMO.
Born and raised in Texas.. cattle everywhere.. plenty of psilocybin mushroom experience.. plenty!
I enjoyed all my experiences with mushrooms. And still do. But I know damn well that overdoing it will not help me(or anyone) evolve into a better human being. That's just my experience with this psychoactive substance.
Then again, I could be wrong.
"We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time." T. S. Eliot
Appreciate on that quote a bit.
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