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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: PookztA]
    #9023373 - 10/03/08 12:04 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

it has also been shown that several species on the planet have Symbiotic relationships with species of Fungi... so closely knit, that the fungus is now ONLY FOUND within the den of the animal.

Does this surprise you? It shouldn't.

Symbiotic relationships are found throughout nature, and not always (or even usually) do they involve a fungus. Bacteria in your own gut is the best example. Look at the Portuguese Man o' War for a rather interesting one that involves four organisms. Or look at eukaryotic cells, which were once believed to be two different organisms (a cell and a mitochondria) that have since merged into one organism - each unable to live without the other.

perhaps the small population of chimpanzees that began eating these mushrooms, developed a symbiotic relationship with the fungus, and that is us now... because i promise you this, wherever i go, i will eat mushrooms, and i bet many of you can say the same.... so the Psilocybin mushroom has done an EXCELLENT job of establishing a symbiotic relationship with us, but not with any other species on the planet. hmmm.......

:lol:

Our relationship with the psilocybe mushroom is far from symbiotic. Even if we disappeared tomorrow...the fungus would live on :wink:


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: PookztA]
    #9023388 - 10/03/08 12:08 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

The Adam & Steve story in the Gay Den of Eden?


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OfflinePookztA
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: trendal]
    #9023427 - 10/03/08 12:23 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

mod edit: please refrain from personal remarks in P&S

our relationship IS symbiotic, in that we work together. its not out of necessity, but neither is it for the ants... they do it because its convenient to farm the fungus rather than hunt for foood all day, when they could easily just pick leaves and feed it to the fungus. the tightness of the ant-fungus symbiotic relationship took a very, very long time... and considering that human beings have not been around that long, we have not been able to develop this tight of symbiosis yet.

the ant-fungus symbiosis is analgous to our relationship with psilocybin mushrooms, not that we pick leaves or anything... hahaha :wink:, but what i mean is that IF and WHEN human beings travel to another planet... the mushroom is coming with us, because the experience they provide human beings is SO POWERFUL, that human beings will carry mushrooms with them wherever we go. Mushrooms share knowledge with us, allowing us to experience the Universe in a more true and deeper form, and in turn, we will carry and cultivate the mushrooms wherever we go. if i lived on mars, i would find a way to grow the fungus on mars so that i could go tripping in a fuckin' crater.

does that surprise you...? because it SHOULD.

BOOOOOM!

it doesn't hurt to be optimistic and to enjoy things dude, in fact, it helps by making the conversation a more enthusiastic one... so lighten up with all your "its not that big of a deal" stuff. many people don't know about the shit we are discussing, so it may be a new and big deal to them, unless of course they foolishly read your post and actually believed that it was 'nothing to get excited about'.


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Abrahm
Spreading Psytrance & Love in the Midwest USA

Expand Your Consciousness. :mushroomgrow:

:peace: 9/11 Challenge: Explain the Evidence http://pookzta.blogspot.com

Edited by Veritas (10/03/08 12:34 PM)

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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: PookztA]
    #9023487 - 10/03/08 12:41 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

IF and WHEN human beings travel to another planet... the mushroom is coming with us, because the experience they provide human beings is SO POWERFUL, that human beings will carry mushrooms with them wherever we go. Mushrooms share knowledge with us, allowing us to experience the Universe in a more true and deeper form, and in turn, we will carry and cultivate the mushrooms wherever we go.




A very, very small percentage of humans try psychedelics, and an even smaller percentage of those humans try "magic" mushrooms.  The odds that the first colonists to another planet will be psychonauts are quite slim, as are the odds that they would be allowed to bring spores with them. 

How you do know that mushrooms share knowledge with us?  This sounds suspiciously like anthropomorphism to me. :shrug:

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OfflinePookztA
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: Veritas]
    #9023519 - 10/03/08 12:51 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

1. we are not talking about 'the first people to colonize' another planet. we are talking about much larger time scales. once the planet is colonized by regulars, or perhaps it WOULD be colonized by psychonauts, as they seem to push themselves to do more in life... (generalization), regardless... eventually someone who has had the Psilocybin experience will want to bring it with them to mars, and they will. of course it may have to wait until there are vast colonizations, so that each person is able to have his or her own 'planetary apartment' of some sort... but eventually, it would happen, if the circumstances permitted. and also, the psychedelics are spreading my friend.... the more research that is permitted, the more wide spread the outstanding results reach, inspiring more people to try them, etc. people like you and I are agents of change, agents of inspiration, for new people we meet to learn more about psychedelics and to possibly inspire newcomers to give them a try. everyone deserves to eat magic mushrooms at least once in their life, IMO. and IMHO, world leaders such as Presidents and Governors should be required, by law, to have a life-redefining mushroom / entheogen experience at least once every 6 months to make sure they are in touch with the people they are serving and representing, and to reduce corruption and selfish arrogance that is somewhat unavoidable when you sit in a position of power.

2. i didnt necessarily mean that mushrooms SHARE knowledge. rather, they are the key to unlocking brain function that allows us to experience the Universe in a more true and realistic form (my belief). the mushroom alters brain function in such a way that hallucinations are not merely generated... it almost is as if they are unlocked... almost as if your brain is always capable of producing multi-dimensional, highly symmetrical geometric patterns behind your eyes lids, but because normally your brain is in its day-to-date mode of function, these patterns would interfere with daily tasks such as school, work, and family. the mushrooms unlock the brains potential to receive more information from your sensory organs, and to integrate that information into your moment-by-moment conscious experience, which allows you to see fractal patterns and other amazing things behind your eye lids.

and thats just visuals... i cant tell you how many life lessons i have realized during mushroom experiences... realizations of the efficiency and necessity of global and interstellar peace... realizations of how to better treat family members and friends.... realizations of the awesomeness of each and every individual which inspires me to call my mom the next day, or call my friend and tell him how awesome he is, or say hey to that stranger that is avoiding eye contact out of fear....

i dont think that the mushroom is inputting information into us when we consume it, rather, i think that psilocybin is a key molecule that allows us to receive and interpret more of "whats out there" than we normally are capable of doing.

i guess its a combination of beliefs / information ive obtained from Neurobiology courses... and its my way of rationalizing what we experience when we eat the mushrooms...


--------------------
Abrahm
Spreading Psytrance & Love in the Midwest USA

Expand Your Consciousness. :mushroomgrow:

:peace: 9/11 Challenge: Explain the Evidence http://pookzta.blogspot.com

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: Veritas]
    #9023530 - 10/03/08 12:55 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

How you do know that mushrooms share knowledge with us?




Because we are their friends. :yesnod:


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Invisiblemofo
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: PookztA]
    #9023545 - 10/03/08 12:58 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

I will take this a step further and suggest that perhaps human beings evolved from psilocybin mushrooms themselves.  Or rather, that we are the mobile, sensing anatomical feature of the mycelial web.

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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: zouden]
    #9023701 - 10/03/08 01:31 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

zouden said: The main problem I have with this argument (well, apart from the fact that it's unsupported by any evidence)




QFT.  It's a nice theory, but there's a whole lot more that's necessary to evolve a separate species than the mere ingestion of psilocybin mushrooms.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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OfflinePookztA
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: deCypher]
    #9023714 - 10/03/08 01:35 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

The Cypher said:
It's a nice theory, but there's a whole lot more that's necessary to evolve a separate species than the mere ingestion of psilocybin mushrooms.




not really man...

galapagos finches that Charles Darwin studied diverged into tens of different species just because they were exposed to different environments that featured different sizes of seeds.....

if eating different sizes of seeds can produce tens of different species, how can you say that consuming a highly psychoactive, neurologically stimulating compound cannot cause the divergence of just ONE new species?

especially if you consider that the primary difference between our brains and chimp brains is the size of our prefrontal cortex... the area that is responsible for higher functions such as judgement, morals, and reasoning...

its really not anymore far fetched than trying to convince yourselves that 10 different species of finches evolved due to being isolated on islands where the seed sizes were significantly different...

woot woot!


--------------------
Abrahm
Spreading Psytrance & Love in the Midwest USA

Expand Your Consciousness. :mushroomgrow:

:peace: 9/11 Challenge: Explain the Evidence http://pookzta.blogspot.com

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Offlinenonwo
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: PookztA]
    #9023827 - 10/03/08 02:04 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

i was feeling the whole cave man to now part not so much chimps eating it- but maybe


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yellow red black and white cometogether as humans and fallow the path the creater intended

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Offlinenonwo
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: doja42]
    #9023832 - 10/03/08 02:06 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

could all religion be the result of unsuspected dmt trips from the p gland


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yellow red black and white cometogether as humans and fallow the path the creater intended

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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: PookztA]
    #9023938 - 10/03/08 02:30 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Here's the question: WHY did slightly different species of finches evolve in response to different habitats on Galapagos? 

Answer: Because certain random genetic mutations rendered them more fit within their particular environments.  The birds with longer beaks were better able to reach the seeds in a plant common to their microhabitat, and therefore lived longer and produced more offspring with long beaks.

Another question: How would mushrooms make primates better fit to survive within their habitat?  There is no evidence which suggests that ingestion of psychedelic mushrooms causes genetic mutation, so the only reason evolution would favor mushroom-eaters over non-mushroom-eaters is if the mushrooms improved their ability to survive and/or reproduce.

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OfflinePookztA
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: Veritas]
    #9023983 - 10/03/08 02:41 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

if eating mushrooms led chimps to walk on 2 legs, thats a HUGE advantage.

if eating mushrooms led to primitive forms of language, giving them the ability to communicate ideas and spread information, thats a HUGE advantage...

those are just 2... are those good answers?


--------------------
Abrahm
Spreading Psytrance & Love in the Midwest USA

Expand Your Consciousness. :mushroomgrow:

:peace: 9/11 Challenge: Explain the Evidence http://pookzta.blogspot.com

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Offlinenonwo
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: PookztA]
    #9024029 - 10/03/08 02:48 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

what do we really know that wasn't force feed to us in federally ran and censored schools


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yellow red black and white cometogether as humans and fallow the path the creater intended

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: PookztA]
    #9024045 - 10/03/08 02:50 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

if eating mushrooms led chimps to walk on 2 legs, thats a HUGE advantage.




Pretending that happened, that is akin to saying that skills learned may be passed genetically. There is no evidence for that.


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Offlinenonwo
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9024050 - 10/03/08 02:51 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

There is no evidence for any creation theory

they tell us


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yellow red black and white cometogether as humans and fallow the path the creater intended

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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: PookztA]
    #9024077 - 10/03/08 02:55 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

PookztA said:
if eating mushrooms led chimps to walk on 2 legs, thats a HUGE advantage.

if eating mushrooms led to primitive forms of language, giving them the ability to communicate ideas and spread information, thats a HUGE advantage...

those are just 2... are those good answers?




Not really, as there is no evidence which suggests that mushrooms would cause massive changes to human physiology, as well as alter our DNA in order to pass on these physiological changes to the next generation.

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OfflineBoneMan
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: Veritas]
    #9024213 - 10/03/08 03:17 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

PookztA said:
everyone deserves to eat magic mushrooms at least once in their life, IMO. and IMHO, world leaders such as Presidents and Governors should be required, by law, to have a life-redefining mushroom / entheogen experience at least once every 6 months to make sure they are in touch with the people they are serving and representing, and to reduce corruption and selfish arrogance that is somewhat unavoidable when you sit in a position of power.





Everyone should have the opportunity.  But you must be joking that you'd have leaders be required by law to trip every 6 months.  There should be a distinct separation between church and state. It seems to me that mushrooms dictate your spiritual philosophy and the insight gained from mushroom trips is no more valid than insight gained from any other spiritual tradition, ritual or religion.  You can't force people to adopt your values and beliefs.  And you talk about reducing selfish arrogance.  I think thats a pretty arrogant statement.

And whats with all this about chimps.  The best fossil evidence points to humans evolving from a lineage of previous human-like primates.  The connection with chimps goes way too far back to have anything to do with evolving to walk upright and develop language.  Drop the chimpanzee theory.  Psilocybian mushrooms may have had some influence on early humans or pre-human primates. But for the mushrooms to have been responsible for any evolutionary adaptation there would have had to have been a large isolated population of mushroom eating primates that eventually developed some adaptation that drastically increased their survivability as the species they diverged from died off.  Its pretty far out there to think the psychedelic mushroom experience would have anything to do with that, and its some pretty science-fictiony speculation that they had anything to do with the evolution of any species.  I think you're over aggrandizing the already amazing properties of mushrooms.

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OfflinePookztA
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: BoneMan]
    #9024253 - 10/03/08 03:26 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

i think we can all admit that if leaders in power were required to undergo a shamanic ritual that involves an altered state of consciousness that puts them into a more open-minded, loving state of mind... that it would have benefits on the decisions they make as a leader. it would at least play a significant role in inhibiting selfish tendencies such as taking bribes or giving bribes, etc....

just my opinion, no need to tell people to "drop" the discussion or get hostile there buddy!!! shine on! :shineon:


--------------------
Abrahm
Spreading Psytrance & Love in the Midwest USA

Expand Your Consciousness. :mushroomgrow:

:peace: 9/11 Challenge: Explain the Evidence http://pookzta.blogspot.com

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OfflinePookztA
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: Veritas]
    #9024268 - 10/03/08 03:28 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:

Not really, as there is no evidence which suggests that mushrooms would cause massive changes to human physiology, as well as alter our DNA in order to pass on these physiological changes to the next generation.




damn you are smart... i was hoping you would ask this question!

to be honest, i have a reply to this question saved on my computer from a previous discussion. it is a rough draft, and is just my OPINION, mixed in with the knowledge i have acquired from neurobiology / physiology courses and my understanding of human brain evolution and function.

here it is, sorry for the typos:

The question comes down to, how were these changes inherited and passed into generation after generation of the diverging human species, so that the effects of the mushroom experiences were passed on?

-to answer this, it requires a brief neurobiology understanding. we learned that there is an epigenetic ('above' genetic) way of regulating gene expression. this is having to do with DNA packaging around histone proteins. the tighter the packing, the less likely it is that the packed genes can be expressed. so even if a gene repressor may or may not be bound, a gene can be silenced by packing the DNA around that gene very tightly (this is called heterochromatin). this would be an epigenetic way of turning off transcription of a specific gene, even if the repressor isnt bound.

it has been shown with brain imaging studies done on a subject during a mushroom experience, that activity in the prefrontal cortex, the area responsible for human-specific abilities such as high judgment, reason, and morals, experiences a significant increase in activity during the trip.

and with that, we are asking, how could changes in activity in the PreFrontal Cortex of one human that is ingesting the mushrooms, pass these changes on down the line to future offspring?

trust me friends, this is the question that has had me questioning my own belief for so long, but ever since my recently acquired neurobiology understanding, i am finding a theory to make my belief work. i need to consult more scientists about the theory, but here it goes:

If one human experiences an increase in neural activity in the PreFronal Cortex, the area associated with the highest of mental functions, including human-prevelant abilities such as reasoning, judgement, etc... then they will need to be synthesizing proteins for those neurons on a more regular basis. Now, although the ingestion of the mushrooms may not cause more or less of any one specific gene to be transcribed, it is very possible, that by increasing neuronal activity in this region of the brain, we are able to interpret more of the reality which we are sensing. This increase in activity would influence epigenetic regulation of our genes in this area, so that the genes that are already being transcribed in that area, can be more easily transcribed, or more frequently transcribed. this could occur via De-Methylation of the DNA, or Acetylation of the DNA, as both of these occurrences result in "looser" packaging of DNA, ultimately resulting in easier and more frequent transcription of the genes in this area (the prefrontal cortex).

Perhaps eaitng mushrooms allows one to integrate more of whats "out there" into their conscious subjective experience, and this in turn causes the increased expression of genes in this area. now although this doesnt change any genes or their functions, this certainly changes the epigenetic regulation of the genes. So, for example, where a gene is needed more, it may be Acetylated, as to prevent tighter packaging of the gene.

heres the best part: EPIGENETIC regulation is INHERITED by offspring, resulting in the immediate change in the pattern of gene expression in just one generations time! although changes are minor, if one's DNA in the prefrontal cortex became less packaged due to mushroom experiences, they would pass on this less-packaged state of DNA (euchromatin) to their offspring, and their offspring would immediately be able to transcribe those genes in that looser-packed area just as their mushroom-eating parent has. then of course, the child eats mushrooms at some point, causing even more expression of genes in this area. this would cause a cascade effect, causing the pre-frontal cortex, which again is activated by the mushrooms, to drastically increase in size in a short amount of time.

and the weirdest thing is friends, that its not the whole brain that is larger in humans in comparison to chimps. our brains are of similar size in almost all areas, EXCEPT for the Pre Frontal Cortex. our prefrontal cortex is between double and triple that of ancestral chimpanzees. again, this is the area of the brain responsible for our our judgment, rationality, morality, logic, etc....

So in summary, and again this is just MY OPINION, it is very possible that the chain of events occurs as follows:

mushrooms activate PFC >>> epigenetic changes allow for more expression of PreFrontal Cortex genes and neurons >>> these epigentic changes are passed on (despite not changing the actual DNA content, it is the expression of the DNA that is changed) >>> catalyzing more and more expression of neuronal genes which leads to more neurons in this area of the brain >>> causing the PreFrontal Cortex to become very large in size in a short amount of time >>> resulting in higher thinking chimpanzees, AKA humans.

it is a miracle, not a mistake, and again, its only MY OPINION and MY BELIEF. you are welcome to share yours as well.

thats it in a nut shell, thanks for asking, it was fun to type it out :shineon: :shineon: :shineon:


--------------------
Abrahm
Spreading Psytrance & Love in the Midwest USA

Expand Your Consciousness. :mushroomgrow:

:peace: 9/11 Challenge: Explain the Evidence http://pookzta.blogspot.com

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