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Cognitive_Shift
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Which quality is "better" for an evolving species?
#9208344 - 11/08/08 05:28 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Intelligence ? or Motivation?
I can't decide....
Opinions?
-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
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adrug
Registered: 02/04/03
Posts: 15,800
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Re: Which quality is "better" for an evolving species? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
#9208399 - 11/08/08 05:39 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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How about intelligence-backed motivation?
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Cognitive_Shift
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Re: Which quality is "better" for an evolving species? [Re: adrug]
#9208405 - 11/08/08 05:40 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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I totally agree, but either one or the other?
What do you think?
-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
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adrug
Registered: 02/04/03
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Re: Which quality is "better" for an evolving species? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
#9208423 - 11/08/08 05:42 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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It seems that motivation without intelligence could possibly end in disaster. I mean, look at the last 8 years of American history. So I'll have to go with intelligence. At least with intelligence there lies potential. Without intelligence: (see first sentence).
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
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Re: Which quality is "better" for an evolving species? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
#9208542 - 11/08/08 06:17 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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What do you mean by better?
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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Cognitive_Shift
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Re: Which quality is "better" for an evolving species? [Re: deCypher]
#9208600 - 11/08/08 06:29 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Which quality is a better advantage to have in the game of life?
-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
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Re: Which quality is "better" for an evolving species? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
#9208610 - 11/08/08 06:31 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Well, the game of life is essentially "won" by surviving long enough to pass your genes on to the next generation. By this definition, both intelligence and motivation are needed (intelligence without motivation is impotent, motivation without intelligence won't accomplish anything worthwhile). If I had to pick one, though, I'd choose motivation. Plenty of dumb humans manage to spread their seed without any intelligence whatsoever.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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Cognitive_Shift
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Re: Which quality is "better" for an evolving species? [Re: deCypher]
#9208636 - 11/08/08 06:38 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Good explanation cyph
-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: Which quality is "better" for an evolving species? [Re: deCypher]
#9208822 - 11/08/08 07:27 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Plenty of dumb humans manage to spread their seed without any intelligence whatsoever.
Stop hanging out at Walmart. You are getting a slanted view.
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cactastic
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Re: Which quality is "better" for an evolving species? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#9209220 - 11/08/08 09:12 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Motivation. One would think statistically you would sometimes do things right. lol
-------------------- ▶ I'm on YT ▶ My 10+ year old Lophophoras that I grew from seed make the occasional appearance with lots of other cacti, succulents and houseplants.
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DieCommie
Registered: 12/11/03
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Re: Which quality is "better" for an evolving species? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
#9209600 - 11/08/08 11:00 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Could you elaborate on what you mean by 'motivation'? I dont know how having that or not having that would manifest itself in different species. What are some species that have it or dont have it?
Regardless, whether any characteristic is beneficial, neutral or harmful in a reproductive sense in entirely dependent on the environment the species is in.
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Cognitive_Shift
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Re: Which quality is "better" for an evolving species? [Re: DieCommie]
#9209663 - 11/08/08 11:13 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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the act or an instance of motivating
-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
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Dude96
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Re: Which quality is "better" for an evolving species? [Re: DieCommie]
#9209691 - 11/08/08 11:18 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Assuming a survival standpoint..motivation early, if you can survive long enough, intelligence. Why? I'll elaborate.
So here's my little example(lets use ants.) ant species A is motivated, ant species B is intelligent. Now, by intelligence I am making an assumption that it is excess intelligence, not intelligence in its entirety.
Both species can colonize. Species A however are more adept hunters, they push themselves further, they will die for the colony, they will die before allowing the colony to fall.
Species B have a much more advanced colony, a so called hierarchy. Instead of a small microcosm which strives to co-exist, thoughts of self preservation begin to arise. Roles are set and accepted and there is still the sense of working to sustain one being but it begins to seperate. There no longer is the ...patriotism for lack of a better word.
Why early on motivation will succeed? Species A is invaded by species B. Species A is motivated, they will fight like the so called patriots they are, death is ignored, the colony is all that matters. They are more lethal, more efficient, because they have a more advanced purpose. The intelligent ants, species b; understand more they have a better concept of pain. THey see the enemy for what they are - ruthless. They would flee for fear of self preservation, more advanced emotions and thoughts cause confusion amongst themselves, causing dissaray.
The motivated ants win, or at the very least, die valiantly. ( I know i'm dramatizing ants a bit here but the exxaggeration makes my opinion/explanation easier to portray.) Were species A to invade species B, species B likely would flee after the fight was for certain lost, hoping to re-establish their colony elsewhere.
Fast track into the future. With intelligence as previously stated come more advanced emotions. Species B know mild forms of anger and resentment. They hate species A for the anguish that has been caused to them. They are more intelligent, and with this intelligent to counter the determined ruthlessness of species A have become cold and calculating.
Species A would be crushed beneath species B as this intelligence would ultimately yield a greater control, more organization and a wider sense of understanding of that which opposes them. Species A would continue to simply wish to survive. Expanding without necessity, merely ensuring life. They would fight, expending lives freely..simply a single biomass against thousands of singular organisms. But their strength is also their downfall. For this one motivated being could not function or fight off the opposing species after a certain point.
THings of the spartans, they would be species A. They might fight hard but they would eventually be slain, their species removed from the genepool.
Thus my opinion is stated..if anyone bothered to read that, thanks for bearing with me, i went on a bit of a tangent ^.^.
-------------------- "We cross our bridges when we come to them and burn them behind us, with nothing to show for our progress except a memory of the smell of smoke, and a presumption that our eyes once watered." -Tom Stoppard "He who makes a beast out of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man." -Samuel Johnson I will be a cancer upon you, ravaging all that you love and sundering your beliefs. Then, and only then, once you have fallen so far and are but a shell of that which you once were, I will grant you your every dream. Only to crush them all before your eyes. You doubted my willpower, you abused my generosity, and now you will recognize my cruelty. -Anonymous
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Jax
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Re: Which quality is "better" for an evolving species? [Re: Dude96]
#9210086 - 11/09/08 01:14 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Intelligence. That the distinguishing characteristic of the most evolved species is its intelligence should be proof enough. Motivation and intelligence are both critically important; but intelligence allows a creature to predict, adapt to, and manipulate its environment. The result is a better chance of survival in more situations.
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Sleepwalker
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Re: Which quality is "better" for an evolving species? [Re: Jax]
#9210183 - 11/09/08 01:46 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Jax said: Intelligence. That the distinguishing characteristic of the most evolved species is its intelligence should be proof enough. Motivation and intelligence are both critically important; but intelligence allows a creature to predict, adapt to, and manipulate its environment. The result is a better chance of survival in more situations.
We are not the "most evolved". Every creature alive today is just as evolved as us, but suited for different situations.
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Jax
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Re: Which quality is "better" for an evolving species? [Re: Sleepwalker]
#9210207 - 11/09/08 01:54 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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I meant to say something more like 'best evolved'. Meaning, our species is most likely to survive and reproduce in any environment than any other species.
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Sleepwalker
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Re: Which quality is "better" for an evolving species? [Re: Jax]
#9210217 - 11/09/08 01:59 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Our intelligence definitely allows us to survive in more hostile environments than we would without, but we aren't always the best in any given environment.
Good luck living at the bottom of the ocean with only hot methane vents to give you life.
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Jax
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Re: Which quality is "better" for an evolving species? [Re: Sleepwalker]
#9210235 - 11/09/08 02:08 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Well, we invented scuba diving suits and submarines to 'live' down there. Have one of those things ever explored life above sea level? In any event, we have the ability to survive in the broadest of environments and circumstances largely because we're so intelligent.
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