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PookztA
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Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? *UPDATED 09/05/2009*
#9022235 - 10/03/08 04:03 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use?
Humans and Chimpanzees are closest relatives... sharing a genome that is 96% similar to each other.
How come we are so different? Why are so we much more self-aware, creative, and capable of understanding the Universe, if our genetic structure is nearly identical to that of chimpanzees?
Some say that psilocybin mushroon consumption 'woke' us up. Perhaps the experience of the mushroom allows one to learn things about their surroundings very rapidly in comparison to our day-to-day train of thought. I think we can all agree that there are significant lessons learned and mental benefits from consuming Psilocybin mushrooms, so who is to say that ancestral chimpanzees or neanderthals did not accidentally stumble upon the fungus, and then continue to eat the fungus to continue to receive its benefits? Perhaps early hunters ate the fungus to become more aware of their forest surroundings, to hear every foot step of deer or buffalo, to become more aware of the direction of the wind or the direction of the clouds to locate herds to hunt...
Perhaps this is why the human Pre-frontal cortex has nearly tripled in size in comparison to Chimpanzees despite the lack of a strong scientific explanation for this growth.... We can figure out how most other organisms evolved from one another.... but perhaps we cannot figure out how human's evolved from chimps because we are looking in all the wrong places...
Some say that this is the reason that the Cow is sacred in one of the largest religions in the world, Hinduism. Perhaps it is because of what grew out of the cow's dung, that has made this rather dirty animal so highly praised by such a large portion of the world's population...
Those of you who have read Terrence McKenna: Food Of The Gods, are familiar with this theory. the book changed my life, and has given me spiritual direction with my mushroom consumption. Mushrooms are consciousness-expanding, without a doubt. Whether or not their consciousness-expanding property is significant enough to cause the evolution of human beings from chimpanzees is another question though... but I am faithful we will find the answer within our lifetime.
Thoughts?
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UPDATE 09/05/2009
I recently learned how Epigenetic influences, such as histone acetylation which makes certain genes on our DNA more accessible to transcriptional enzymes so that those genes can be upregulated / transcribed more, can get transfered to the next generation of offspring!
it is called PARAMUTATION! look it up! it involves regulatory RNA molecules, such as siRNA and miRNA. certain RNA molecules get included in the sperm and in the egg, and when they fuse, these regulatory RNA molecules then apply the epigenetic pattern of methylation and acetylation that is found in our somatic cells. This is how epigenetic changes in the frontal cortex, due to mushroom use, could be transferred into the next generation of offspring! this topic of Paramutation is currently blowing up and being researched more and more for its obvious implications involving human evolution!
this means that if mushrooms truly did upregulate genes that code for more neurons and neuronal proteins of the frontal cortex (which would correlate to increased self-awareness and logic of humans)... that certain RNAs that were included in the Sperm and Egg would then apply this same pattern of upregulation in the offspring once fertilization has occurred!
this is how the upregulation of the human frontal cortex genes could be passed onto future offspring!
so maybe we DID evolve in part due to mushroom use!? who knows though...
I looked into it some more and Paramutation is definitely the correct term. Another related term is genomic-imprinting, but only paramutation refers to the inheritence and influence of RNA molecules from the parents in order to modify (turn on/off) genes in the offspring.
To simplify: Scientists are learning that an offspring's pattern of gene expression does not only depend on which genes we inherit from our parents. Rather, what also matters significantly is which of those genes we inherit are 'turned on' or 'turned off'. Paramutation refers to the process of inherited RNA molecules which apply the 'on / off' patterns of parental gene regulation to the developing offspring, so that genes which were up-regulated or down-regulated in the parental generation will also be up-regulated or down-regulated in their offspring.
Here's a great BBC article giving a simplification of Epigenetic influence and paramutation:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/5011826.stm
Also, this is from Wikipedia:
Evolution
"Although epigenetics in multicellular organisms is generally thought to be a mechanism involved in differentiation, with epigenetic patterns "reset" when organisms reproduce, there have been many observations of transgenerational epigenetic inheritance (e.g., the phenomenon of paramutation observed in maize).
The possibility remains that multigenerational epigenetics could be another aspect to evolution and adaptation. These effects may require enhancements to the standard conceptual framework of the modern evolutionary synthesis.[32][33]"
Link to wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetic
the point here is: regulatory RNA molecules are inherited from your parents, just as the cytoplasm and mitochondria of the egg the mother contributes and the centrioles of the sperm your father contributes are also inherited by the offspring. These regulatory RNA molecules then modify the DNA of the offspring during development, so that genes which were more expressed or repressed in your parents are also more expressed or repressed in their offspring (DNA acetylation results in certain genes being more accessible and expressed. DNA methylation results in certain genes being less accessible and expressed.)
-------------------- Abrahm Spreading Psytrance & Love in the Midwest USA Expand Your Consciousness. 9/11 Challenge: Explain the Evidence http://pookzta.blogspot.com
Edited by PookztA (09/05/09 03:04 PM)
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apostle11
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: PookztA]
#9022253 - 10/03/08 04:23 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Well it wouldn't have been chimps we evolved from it would have been an earlier hominid, but as much as I love mushrooms and what they can do in terms of enlightenment I don't think they caused us to evolve from an earlier life form.
I am a big fan of Mckenna and have listened to a couple hours of lectures that he had given. Will have to pick up the book that you have referenced.
My own personal thought is that mushrooms could have been put on this Earth to help us lose our bias toward one another and to help the human race come together as one.
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PookztA
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: apostle11]
#9022271 - 10/03/08 04:33 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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you don't think that the use would cause dramatic realizations within the chimpanzee, allowing for the rapid formation of language, and perhaps the understanding that by walking on two legs instead of 4, we can use our forelimbs to grab things and pick up objects?
those things dont just happen this quickly...
within the last 3-4 million years, the brain has grown more than triple its size... from 400cc's to ~1400ccs.
if we look at more recent evolution, within the last 1.7 million years, we see that the brain doubled in size, from ~800cc to ~1500cc. so it was getting faster too.
and keeping in mind that the body size did not change much at ALL during this time period, the evolution was strictly mental, and VERY accelerated... so accelerated that science has NO FUCKIN' CLUE as to what was causing it...
theres gotta be an agent... and my belief is that the agent is psilocybin mushrooms that grew all over the world, in the dungs of the bison, cattle, and other herds that we hunted prehistorically
Did you guys know that spores can survive in a vacuum, since they exist in a state of suspended-animation? spores are 'NON-LIVING', but can spring to life given the right conditions, which allows them to survive in a vacuum, aka SPACE. perhaps the spores came on a comet or a piece of space debris? perhaps the spores were dropped here by extra-terrestrials?
regardless, i firmly believe that psilocybin mushrooms played a major role in the evolution of modern human beings. just my belief though
-------------------- Abrahm Spreading Psytrance & Love in the Midwest USA Expand Your Consciousness. 9/11 Challenge: Explain the Evidence http://pookzta.blogspot.com
Edited by PookztA (10/03/08 04:34 AM)
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zouden
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: PookztA]
#9022358 - 10/03/08 05:56 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Is it time again for this debate? I guess it's been two weeks since the last one.
>so accelerated that science has NO FUCKIN' CLUE as to what was causing it...
Um, yeah we do. Human evolution is extremely well understood. Also, we didn't evolve from Chimps, but I won't hold that mistake against you
The main problem I have with this argument (well, apart from the fact that it's unsupported by any evidence) is that... people generally don't discover things on psilocybin. They see pretty visuals, and they can look within themselves and examine their own personality, but they don't make enormous external breakthroughs like the discovery of fire, for example.
-------------------- I know... that just the smallest part of the world belongs to me You know... I'm not a blind man but truth is the hardest thing to see
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Middleman
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: zouden]
#9022370 - 10/03/08 06:06 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Human / Primate comparison:
Our bones are 50% lighter and thinner Our muscles are 5-10 times weaker We have 10 times the adipose tissue Our hair pattern is reversed Our throat is completely redesigned We have no oestrus cycle We have 4,000+ genetic disorders We have LOST two chromosomes
Plant symbiosis seems as likely as genetic intervention to me.
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zouden
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: Middleman]
#9022406 - 10/03/08 06:29 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Why?
Edit: in case that was too obtuse... what you have listed in no way indicates plant symbiosis was involved. That is a claim with no basis in reality, and very few people would agree with it.
-------------------- I know... that just the smallest part of the world belongs to me You know... I'm not a blind man but truth is the hardest thing to see
Edited by zouden (10/03/08 06:35 AM)
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Middleman
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: zouden]
#9022416 - 10/03/08 06:35 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Because of the small amount of time we had to make all of these changes.
There's this guy named Lloyd Pye who makes a very good case for genetic intervention. I've read Food Of The Gods and think the symbiosis theory was one of McKenna's most plausable.
All I'm saying is that it's possible.
Edit: I didn't say that was evidence for symbiosis. It's just an interesting comparison.
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zouden
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: Middleman]
#9022418 - 10/03/08 06:38 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Those aren't very big changes. They can easily happen in the time since we evolved from Australopithecus. Also remember that other primates have also changed in that time, in their own way.
-------------------- I know... that just the smallest part of the world belongs to me You know... I'm not a blind man but truth is the hardest thing to see
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Middleman
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: zouden]
#9022427 - 10/03/08 06:42 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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There are a few genetic scientists who have come out and said that there is evidence of intelligent manipulation in our genome.
Maybe the mushrooms did it, that's all I'm saying.
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zouden
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: Middleman]
#9022433 - 10/03/08 06:47 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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>There are a few genetic scientists who have come out and said that there is evidence of intelligent manipulation in our genome.
That scientist (it was one person) is wrong. I read the article. There is no evidence.
>Maybe the mushrooms did it, that's all I'm saying.
Maybe! Anything is possible. But not everything is likely
-------------------- I know... that just the smallest part of the world belongs to me You know... I'm not a blind man but truth is the hardest thing to see
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Middleman
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: zouden]
#9022436 - 10/03/08 06:48 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Right. I said 'as likely'.
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zouden
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: Middleman]
#9022440 - 10/03/08 06:50 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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And that's where I had to disagree with you - it's not as likely. It's far more likely that we evolved by natural selection.
-------------------- I know... that just the smallest part of the world belongs to me You know... I'm not a blind man but truth is the hardest thing to see
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Gomp
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: zouden]
#9022457 - 10/03/08 06:58 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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FGS? please ... ?
Feed a chimpanzee mushroom?
Why does it not evolve?
FGS? WAKE THE FUCK UP?
Common ancestry?
Please, grab you ass and hurt yourself awake? You might need it...
-------------------- -------------------- Disclaimer!?
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trendal
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: PookztA]
#9022600 - 10/03/08 08:08 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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(copy of my reply to you in the Science & Tech forum)
No, I don't think so.
If we did...why aren't there other "humanoid" species living on the planet? Why aren't pre-human species continuing to evolve into human-like species, as they would still have access to psilocybin mushrooms?
In your other post, you point out that humans are 99.9% genetically similar to chimps (it's actually much lower). You fail to mention the fact that we are only a few more percent different than the common fruit fly. We are only about 30% different than yeast...yeast!
The fact is, we are very similar to just about every species out there, when you look at just our DNA. All the basics - cellular respiration, how cells get their food, and just about everything about cells for that matter - were worked out over literally billions of years of evolution. Once Nature finds the right way to do something, it usually sticks with it (just look at all the examples of convergent evolution). Most of the 96% of DNA we share with apes is all that - the basics.
Humans are probably only a few mutations away from chimps, and most of them probably have to do with our brain. I doubt we needed anything like mushrooms to produce a few mutations, and I'll ask again, where are any other examples?
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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trendal
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: PookztA]
#9022643 - 10/03/08 08:23 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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those things dont just happen this quickly...
within the last 3-4 million years, the brain has grown more than triple its size... from 400cc's to ~1400ccs.
if we look at more recent evolution, within the last 1.7 million years, we see that the brain doubled in size, from ~800cc to ~1500cc. so it was getting faster too.
Actually they do (happen rather quickly)
If you take away just one gene, you get a human with a more chimp-sized brain (it's called microcephaly - look it up). Now certainly our brain is more than one gene away from a chimps...but do you see my point? Our brain is only a few mutations away from a chimp's!
and keeping in mind that the body size did not change much at ALL during this time period, the evolution was strictly mental, and VERY accelerated... so accelerated that science has NO FUCKIN' CLUE as to what was causing it...
As I pointed out, our brains are only a few genes off from a chimp's. A few genes are not hard to have mutate in a few million years...
Where are you getting this "NO FUCKIN' CLUE" stuff from? Science may not have all the answers...but it has learned quite a bit over the last few years!
spores are 'NON-LIVING', but can spring to life given the right conditions, which allows them to survive in a vacuum, aka SPACE. perhaps the spores came on a comet or a piece of space debris? perhaps the spores were dropped here by extra-terrestrials?
Spores are very much so "living" organisms...as much as a seed is. If a spore was "dead" (the opposite of living) it would have no way of knowing when to spring into action and begin to grow.
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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PookztA
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: zouden]
#9023231 - 10/03/08 11:21 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
zouden said: >There are a few genetic scientists who have come out and said that there is evidence of intelligent manipulation in our genome.
That scientist (it was one person) is wrong. I read the article. There is no evidence.
>Maybe the mushrooms did it, that's all I'm saying.
Maybe! Anything is possible. But not everything is likely
i study Neurobiology at the University of Iowa bro, so i'm not totally clueless here... plus i just got done taking a course called: EVOLUTION about 1 year ago. thats the entire name of the course... its all about evolution obviously, and there is a whole section devoted to human evolution, and we dont know how the brain evolved, although we do know where the most probable origin of humans is (Africa)....
if you line up our genome, and directly compare it to the genome of chimpanzees... we share 96% of their genome. literally. it was once thought to be 99% similar, but now its official at 96%... if i said 99.9% i made a mistake, ill edit the first post, but STILL... 96%!
the most recent human genome project studies have put the human genome at around 20,000 expressed genes, so to have a 4% difference with chipmanzees would mean that we have only 800 genes that are different... thats mind-boggling to me
-------------------- Abrahm Spreading Psytrance & Love in the Midwest USA Expand Your Consciousness. 9/11 Challenge: Explain the Evidence http://pookzta.blogspot.com
Edited by PookztA (10/03/08 11:45 AM)
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nonwo
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: PookztA]
#9023252 - 10/03/08 11:25 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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mushrooms = forbinen fruit in adam and steve story? i think ur on to something
-------------------- yellow red black and white cometogether as humans and fallow the path the creater intended
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PookztA
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: trendal]
#9023253 - 10/03/08 11:25 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
trendal said:
spores are 'NON-LIVING', but can spring to life given the right conditions, which allows them to survive in a vacuum, aka SPACE. perhaps the spores came on a comet or a piece of space debris? perhaps the spores were dropped here by extra-terrestrials?
Spores are very much so "living" organisms...as much as a seed is. If a spore was "dead" (the opposite of living) it would have no way of knowing when to spring into action and begin to grow.
spores are considered to be living in the form of 'suspended-animation'. they are not actively consuming any resources such as oxygen... they are inactive, but can immediately 'spring back to life' once triggered by their environment. i said "NON-LIVING" in quotations to imply that it was metaphorical, but im glad you spoke up so we could clarify that spores truly are LIVING, but they are suspended in frozen animation until the environment triggers metabolic activity within the cell.
not once did i say spores were "dead".
it has also been shown that several species on the planet have Symbiotic relationships with species of Fungi... so closely knit, that the fungus is now ONLY FOUND within the den of the animal.
2 examples of this: Carpenter Ants, and Termites. Each insect species builds a deep underground colony, and it collects its corresponding plant life (i.e. leaves for the carpenter ants), chews it up, feeds it to the fungus, then harvests the fungus for food for the colony.
the symbiotic relationships have grown so tight, that one can not survive without the other, and one can not be found without the other.
perhaps the small population of chimpanzees that began eating these mushrooms, developed a symbiotic relationship with the fungus, and that is us now... because i promise you this, wherever i go, i will eat mushrooms, and i bet many of you can say the same.... so the Psilocybin mushroom has done an EXCELLENT job of establishing a symbiotic relationship with us, but not with any other species on the planet. hmmm.......
-------------------- Abrahm Spreading Psytrance & Love in the Midwest USA Expand Your Consciousness. 9/11 Challenge: Explain the Evidence http://pookzta.blogspot.com
Edited by PookztA (10/03/08 11:30 AM)
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PookztA
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: nonwo]
#9023265 - 10/03/08 11:29 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
nonwo said: mushrooms = forbinen fruit in adam and steve story? i think ur on to something
this guy knows!
-------------------- Abrahm Spreading Psytrance & Love in the Midwest USA Expand Your Consciousness. 9/11 Challenge: Explain the Evidence http://pookzta.blogspot.com
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doja42
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: PookztA]
#9023358 - 10/03/08 12:00 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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I could see mushrooms being the forbidden fruit, the thing that could expand our consciousness beyond the need for a restrictive organized religion is probably a scary thought to Christians.
Mushrooms made me more aware of the fact that there is something bigger than self, but that thing was the earth. Every time I get a chance to become one with the earth is so amazing and wonderful. People wouldn't waste their time worshiping a man if they could experience planet earth. To each his own, but thats just how I feel.
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trendal
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: PookztA]
#9023373 - 10/03/08 12:04 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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it has also been shown that several species on the planet have Symbiotic relationships with species of Fungi... so closely knit, that the fungus is now ONLY FOUND within the den of the animal.
Does this surprise you? It shouldn't.
Symbiotic relationships are found throughout nature, and not always (or even usually) do they involve a fungus. Bacteria in your own gut is the best example. Look at the Portuguese Man o' War for a rather interesting one that involves four organisms. Or look at eukaryotic cells, which were once believed to be two different organisms (a cell and a mitochondria) that have since merged into one organism - each unable to live without the other.
perhaps the small population of chimpanzees that began eating these mushrooms, developed a symbiotic relationship with the fungus, and that is us now... because i promise you this, wherever i go, i will eat mushrooms, and i bet many of you can say the same.... so the Psilocybin mushroom has done an EXCELLENT job of establishing a symbiotic relationship with us, but not with any other species on the planet. hmmm.......
Our relationship with the psilocybe mushroom is far from symbiotic. Even if we disappeared tomorrow...the fungus would live on
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: PookztA]
#9023388 - 10/03/08 12:08 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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The Adam & Steve story in the Gay Den of Eden?
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PookztA
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: trendal]
#9023427 - 10/03/08 12:23 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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mod edit: please refrain from personal remarks in P&S
our relationship IS symbiotic, in that we work together. its not out of necessity, but neither is it for the ants... they do it because its convenient to farm the fungus rather than hunt for foood all day, when they could easily just pick leaves and feed it to the fungus. the tightness of the ant-fungus symbiotic relationship took a very, very long time... and considering that human beings have not been around that long, we have not been able to develop this tight of symbiosis yet.
the ant-fungus symbiosis is analgous to our relationship with psilocybin mushrooms, not that we pick leaves or anything... hahaha , but what i mean is that IF and WHEN human beings travel to another planet... the mushroom is coming with us, because the experience they provide human beings is SO POWERFUL, that human beings will carry mushrooms with them wherever we go. Mushrooms share knowledge with us, allowing us to experience the Universe in a more true and deeper form, and in turn, we will carry and cultivate the mushrooms wherever we go. if i lived on mars, i would find a way to grow the fungus on mars so that i could go tripping in a fuckin' crater.
does that surprise you...? because it SHOULD.
BOOOOOM!
it doesn't hurt to be optimistic and to enjoy things dude, in fact, it helps by making the conversation a more enthusiastic one... so lighten up with all your "its not that big of a deal" stuff. many people don't know about the shit we are discussing, so it may be a new and big deal to them, unless of course they foolishly read your post and actually believed that it was 'nothing to get excited about'.
-------------------- Abrahm Spreading Psytrance & Love in the Midwest USA Expand Your Consciousness. 9/11 Challenge: Explain the Evidence http://pookzta.blogspot.com
Edited by Veritas (10/03/08 12:34 PM)
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: PookztA]
#9023487 - 10/03/08 12:41 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
IF and WHEN human beings travel to another planet... the mushroom is coming with us, because the experience they provide human beings is SO POWERFUL, that human beings will carry mushrooms with them wherever we go. Mushrooms share knowledge with us, allowing us to experience the Universe in a more true and deeper form, and in turn, we will carry and cultivate the mushrooms wherever we go.
A very, very small percentage of humans try psychedelics, and an even smaller percentage of those humans try "magic" mushrooms. The odds that the first colonists to another planet will be psychonauts are quite slim, as are the odds that they would be allowed to bring spores with them.
How you do know that mushrooms share knowledge with us? This sounds suspiciously like anthropomorphism to me.
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PookztA
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: Veritas]
#9023519 - 10/03/08 12:51 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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1. we are not talking about 'the first people to colonize' another planet. we are talking about much larger time scales. once the planet is colonized by regulars, or perhaps it WOULD be colonized by psychonauts, as they seem to push themselves to do more in life... (generalization), regardless... eventually someone who has had the Psilocybin experience will want to bring it with them to mars, and they will. of course it may have to wait until there are vast colonizations, so that each person is able to have his or her own 'planetary apartment' of some sort... but eventually, it would happen, if the circumstances permitted. and also, the psychedelics are spreading my friend.... the more research that is permitted, the more wide spread the outstanding results reach, inspiring more people to try them, etc. people like you and I are agents of change, agents of inspiration, for new people we meet to learn more about psychedelics and to possibly inspire newcomers to give them a try. everyone deserves to eat magic mushrooms at least once in their life, IMO. and IMHO, world leaders such as Presidents and Governors should be required, by law, to have a life-redefining mushroom / entheogen experience at least once every 6 months to make sure they are in touch with the people they are serving and representing, and to reduce corruption and selfish arrogance that is somewhat unavoidable when you sit in a position of power.
2. i didnt necessarily mean that mushrooms SHARE knowledge. rather, they are the key to unlocking brain function that allows us to experience the Universe in a more true and realistic form (my belief). the mushroom alters brain function in such a way that hallucinations are not merely generated... it almost is as if they are unlocked... almost as if your brain is always capable of producing multi-dimensional, highly symmetrical geometric patterns behind your eyes lids, but because normally your brain is in its day-to-date mode of function, these patterns would interfere with daily tasks such as school, work, and family. the mushrooms unlock the brains potential to receive more information from your sensory organs, and to integrate that information into your moment-by-moment conscious experience, which allows you to see fractal patterns and other amazing things behind your eye lids.
and thats just visuals... i cant tell you how many life lessons i have realized during mushroom experiences... realizations of the efficiency and necessity of global and interstellar peace... realizations of how to better treat family members and friends.... realizations of the awesomeness of each and every individual which inspires me to call my mom the next day, or call my friend and tell him how awesome he is, or say hey to that stranger that is avoiding eye contact out of fear....
i dont think that the mushroom is inputting information into us when we consume it, rather, i think that psilocybin is a key molecule that allows us to receive and interpret more of "whats out there" than we normally are capable of doing.
i guess its a combination of beliefs / information ive obtained from Neurobiology courses... and its my way of rationalizing what we experience when we eat the mushrooms...
-------------------- Abrahm Spreading Psytrance & Love in the Midwest USA Expand Your Consciousness. 9/11 Challenge: Explain the Evidence http://pookzta.blogspot.com
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: Veritas]
#9023530 - 10/03/08 12:55 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
How you do know that mushrooms share knowledge with us?
Because we are their friends.
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mofo
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: PookztA]
#9023545 - 10/03/08 12:58 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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I will take this a step further and suggest that perhaps human beings evolved from psilocybin mushrooms themselves. Or rather, that we are the mobile, sensing anatomical feature of the mycelial web.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: zouden]
#9023701 - 10/03/08 01:31 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
zouden said: The main problem I have with this argument (well, apart from the fact that it's unsupported by any evidence)
QFT. It's a nice theory, but there's a whole lot more that's necessary to evolve a separate species than the mere ingestion of psilocybin mushrooms.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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PookztA
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: deCypher]
#9023714 - 10/03/08 01:35 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Cypher said: It's a nice theory, but there's a whole lot more that's necessary to evolve a separate species than the mere ingestion of psilocybin mushrooms.
not really man...
galapagos finches that Charles Darwin studied diverged into tens of different species just because they were exposed to different environments that featured different sizes of seeds.....
if eating different sizes of seeds can produce tens of different species, how can you say that consuming a highly psychoactive, neurologically stimulating compound cannot cause the divergence of just ONE new species?
especially if you consider that the primary difference between our brains and chimp brains is the size of our prefrontal cortex... the area that is responsible for higher functions such as judgement, morals, and reasoning...
its really not anymore far fetched than trying to convince yourselves that 10 different species of finches evolved due to being isolated on islands where the seed sizes were significantly different...
woot woot!
-------------------- Abrahm Spreading Psytrance & Love in the Midwest USA Expand Your Consciousness. 9/11 Challenge: Explain the Evidence http://pookzta.blogspot.com
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nonwo
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: PookztA]
#9023827 - 10/03/08 02:04 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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i was feeling the whole cave man to now part not so much chimps eating it- but maybe
-------------------- yellow red black and white cometogether as humans and fallow the path the creater intended
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nonwo
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: doja42]
#9023832 - 10/03/08 02:06 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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could all religion be the result of unsuspected dmt trips from the p gland
-------------------- yellow red black and white cometogether as humans and fallow the path the creater intended
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: PookztA]
#9023938 - 10/03/08 02:30 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Here's the question: WHY did slightly different species of finches evolve in response to different habitats on Galapagos?
Answer: Because certain random genetic mutations rendered them more fit within their particular environments. The birds with longer beaks were better able to reach the seeds in a plant common to their microhabitat, and therefore lived longer and produced more offspring with long beaks.
Another question: How would mushrooms make primates better fit to survive within their habitat? There is no evidence which suggests that ingestion of psychedelic mushrooms causes genetic mutation, so the only reason evolution would favor mushroom-eaters over non-mushroom-eaters is if the mushrooms improved their ability to survive and/or reproduce.
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PookztA
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: Veritas]
#9023983 - 10/03/08 02:41 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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if eating mushrooms led chimps to walk on 2 legs, thats a HUGE advantage.
if eating mushrooms led to primitive forms of language, giving them the ability to communicate ideas and spread information, thats a HUGE advantage...
those are just 2... are those good answers?
-------------------- Abrahm Spreading Psytrance & Love in the Midwest USA Expand Your Consciousness. 9/11 Challenge: Explain the Evidence http://pookzta.blogspot.com
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nonwo
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: PookztA]
#9024029 - 10/03/08 02:48 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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what do we really know that wasn't force feed to us in federally ran and censored schools
-------------------- yellow red black and white cometogether as humans and fallow the path the creater intended
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: PookztA]
#9024045 - 10/03/08 02:50 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
if eating mushrooms led chimps to walk on 2 legs, thats a HUGE advantage.
Pretending that happened, that is akin to saying that skills learned may be passed genetically. There is no evidence for that.
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nonwo
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#9024050 - 10/03/08 02:51 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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There is no evidence for any creation theory
they tell us
-------------------- yellow red black and white cometogether as humans and fallow the path the creater intended
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Veritas
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: PookztA]
#9024077 - 10/03/08 02:55 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
PookztA said: if eating mushrooms led chimps to walk on 2 legs, thats a HUGE advantage.
if eating mushrooms led to primitive forms of language, giving them the ability to communicate ideas and spread information, thats a HUGE advantage...
those are just 2... are those good answers?
Not really, as there is no evidence which suggests that mushrooms would cause massive changes to human physiology, as well as alter our DNA in order to pass on these physiological changes to the next generation.
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BoneMan
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: Veritas]
#9024213 - 10/03/08 03:17 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
PookztA said: everyone deserves to eat magic mushrooms at least once in their life, IMO. and IMHO, world leaders such as Presidents and Governors should be required, by law, to have a life-redefining mushroom / entheogen experience at least once every 6 months to make sure they are in touch with the people they are serving and representing, and to reduce corruption and selfish arrogance that is somewhat unavoidable when you sit in a position of power.
Everyone should have the opportunity. But you must be joking that you'd have leaders be required by law to trip every 6 months. There should be a distinct separation between church and state. It seems to me that mushrooms dictate your spiritual philosophy and the insight gained from mushroom trips is no more valid than insight gained from any other spiritual tradition, ritual or religion. You can't force people to adopt your values and beliefs. And you talk about reducing selfish arrogance. I think thats a pretty arrogant statement.
And whats with all this about chimps. The best fossil evidence points to humans evolving from a lineage of previous human-like primates. The connection with chimps goes way too far back to have anything to do with evolving to walk upright and develop language. Drop the chimpanzee theory. Psilocybian mushrooms may have had some influence on early humans or pre-human primates. But for the mushrooms to have been responsible for any evolutionary adaptation there would have had to have been a large isolated population of mushroom eating primates that eventually developed some adaptation that drastically increased their survivability as the species they diverged from died off. Its pretty far out there to think the psychedelic mushroom experience would have anything to do with that, and its some pretty science-fictiony speculation that they had anything to do with the evolution of any species. I think you're over aggrandizing the already amazing properties of mushrooms.
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PookztA
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: BoneMan]
#9024253 - 10/03/08 03:26 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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i think we can all admit that if leaders in power were required to undergo a shamanic ritual that involves an altered state of consciousness that puts them into a more open-minded, loving state of mind... that it would have benefits on the decisions they make as a leader. it would at least play a significant role in inhibiting selfish tendencies such as taking bribes or giving bribes, etc....
just my opinion, no need to tell people to "drop" the discussion or get hostile there buddy!!! shine on!
-------------------- Abrahm Spreading Psytrance & Love in the Midwest USA Expand Your Consciousness. 9/11 Challenge: Explain the Evidence http://pookzta.blogspot.com
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PookztA
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: Veritas]
#9024268 - 10/03/08 03:28 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said:
Not really, as there is no evidence which suggests that mushrooms would cause massive changes to human physiology, as well as alter our DNA in order to pass on these physiological changes to the next generation.
damn you are smart... i was hoping you would ask this question!
to be honest, i have a reply to this question saved on my computer from a previous discussion. it is a rough draft, and is just my OPINION, mixed in with the knowledge i have acquired from neurobiology / physiology courses and my understanding of human brain evolution and function.
here it is, sorry for the typos:
The question comes down to, how were these changes inherited and passed into generation after generation of the diverging human species, so that the effects of the mushroom experiences were passed on?
-to answer this, it requires a brief neurobiology understanding. we learned that there is an epigenetic ('above' genetic) way of regulating gene expression. this is having to do with DNA packaging around histone proteins. the tighter the packing, the less likely it is that the packed genes can be expressed. so even if a gene repressor may or may not be bound, a gene can be silenced by packing the DNA around that gene very tightly (this is called heterochromatin). this would be an epigenetic way of turning off transcription of a specific gene, even if the repressor isnt bound.
it has been shown with brain imaging studies done on a subject during a mushroom experience, that activity in the prefrontal cortex, the area responsible for human-specific abilities such as high judgment, reason, and morals, experiences a significant increase in activity during the trip.
and with that, we are asking, how could changes in activity in the PreFrontal Cortex of one human that is ingesting the mushrooms, pass these changes on down the line to future offspring?
trust me friends, this is the question that has had me questioning my own belief for so long, but ever since my recently acquired neurobiology understanding, i am finding a theory to make my belief work. i need to consult more scientists about the theory, but here it goes:
If one human experiences an increase in neural activity in the PreFronal Cortex, the area associated with the highest of mental functions, including human-prevelant abilities such as reasoning, judgement, etc... then they will need to be synthesizing proteins for those neurons on a more regular basis. Now, although the ingestion of the mushrooms may not cause more or less of any one specific gene to be transcribed, it is very possible, that by increasing neuronal activity in this region of the brain, we are able to interpret more of the reality which we are sensing. This increase in activity would influence epigenetic regulation of our genes in this area, so that the genes that are already being transcribed in that area, can be more easily transcribed, or more frequently transcribed. this could occur via De-Methylation of the DNA, or Acetylation of the DNA, as both of these occurrences result in "looser" packaging of DNA, ultimately resulting in easier and more frequent transcription of the genes in this area (the prefrontal cortex).
Perhaps eaitng mushrooms allows one to integrate more of whats "out there" into their conscious subjective experience, and this in turn causes the increased expression of genes in this area. now although this doesnt change any genes or their functions, this certainly changes the epigenetic regulation of the genes. So, for example, where a gene is needed more, it may be Acetylated, as to prevent tighter packaging of the gene.
heres the best part: EPIGENETIC regulation is INHERITED by offspring, resulting in the immediate change in the pattern of gene expression in just one generations time! although changes are minor, if one's DNA in the prefrontal cortex became less packaged due to mushroom experiences, they would pass on this less-packaged state of DNA (euchromatin) to their offspring, and their offspring would immediately be able to transcribe those genes in that looser-packed area just as their mushroom-eating parent has. then of course, the child eats mushrooms at some point, causing even more expression of genes in this area. this would cause a cascade effect, causing the pre-frontal cortex, which again is activated by the mushrooms, to drastically increase in size in a short amount of time.
and the weirdest thing is friends, that its not the whole brain that is larger in humans in comparison to chimps. our brains are of similar size in almost all areas, EXCEPT for the Pre Frontal Cortex. our prefrontal cortex is between double and triple that of ancestral chimpanzees. again, this is the area of the brain responsible for our our judgment, rationality, morality, logic, etc....
So in summary, and again this is just MY OPINION, it is very possible that the chain of events occurs as follows:
mushrooms activate PFC >>> epigenetic changes allow for more expression of PreFrontal Cortex genes and neurons >>> these epigentic changes are passed on (despite not changing the actual DNA content, it is the expression of the DNA that is changed) >>> catalyzing more and more expression of neuronal genes which leads to more neurons in this area of the brain >>> causing the PreFrontal Cortex to become very large in size in a short amount of time >>> resulting in higher thinking chimpanzees, AKA humans.
it is a miracle, not a mistake, and again, its only MY OPINION and MY BELIEF. you are welcome to share yours as well.
thats it in a nut shell, thanks for asking, it was fun to type it out
-------------------- Abrahm Spreading Psytrance & Love in the Midwest USA Expand Your Consciousness. 9/11 Challenge: Explain the Evidence http://pookzta.blogspot.com
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: Veritas]
#9024301 - 10/03/08 03:35 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Not really, as there is no evidence which suggests that mushrooms would cause massive changes to human physiology, as well as alter our DNA in order to pass on these physiological changes to the next generation.
I just said that!
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nonwo
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#9024309 - 10/03/08 03:37 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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i invented the internet
-------------------- yellow red black and white cometogether as humans and fallow the path the creater intended
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: PookztA]
#9024354 - 10/03/08 03:49 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Now, although the ingestion of the mushrooms may not cause more or less of any one specific thing to be transcribed, it is very possible, that by activating this region of the brain in high amounts, allowing us to interpret more of the reality which we are sensing, then it is possible that the biology of the human will change epigenetically so that the genes that are already being transcribed in that area, can be more easily transcribed, or more frequently transcribed. this could include De-Methylation of the DNA, or Acetylation of the DNA, as both of these occurrences result in "looser" packaging of DNA, resulting in easier and more frequent transcriptions of the genes in this area. Perhaps eaitng mushrooms allows one to believe that they can interpret more of whats out there, and this in turn causes the increased expression of genes in this area. now although this doesnt change any genes or their functions, this certainly changes the epigenetic regulation of the gene (perhaps where a gene is needed more, it will be Acetylated for example, to prevent tighter packaging of the gene).
None of this has actually been demonstrated, however, so it is all speculation. Even if it could be shown that mushrooms result in a larger pre-frontal cortex, an increase in the size of the pre-frontal cortex would not result in the physiological changes required to walk upright, nor to produce speech.
It is important to note that humans did not evolve from chimpanzees. They are our closest living relative, genetically-speaking, but they are not our species-of-origin.
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: nonwo]
#9024378 - 10/03/08 03:55 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
nonwo said: i invented the internet
Most impressive.
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: Veritas]
#9024387 - 10/03/08 03:58 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
It is important to note that humans did not evolve from chimpanzees.
What about George Bush?
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Veritas
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#9024403 - 10/03/08 04:01 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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He is a descendant of the dodo.
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nonwo
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: Veritas]
#9024408 - 10/03/08 04:02 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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inbreeding .
-------------------- yellow red black and white cometogether as humans and fallow the path the creater intended
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: Veritas]
#9024481 - 10/03/08 04:15 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said: He is a descendant of the dodo.
Please do not insult extinct birds.
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zouden
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: PookztA]
#9024865 - 10/03/08 05:34 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
PookztA said: it has been shown with brain imaging studies done on a subject during a mushroom experience, that activity in the prefrontal cortex, the area responsible for human-specific abilities such as high judgment, reason, and morals, experiences a significant increase in activity during the trip.
and with that, we are asking, how could changes in activity in the PreFrontal Cortex of one human that is ingesting the mushrooms, pass these changes on down the line to future offspring? ... this could occur via De-Methylation of the DNA, or Acetylation of the DNA, as both of these occurrences result in "looser" packaging of DNA, ultimately resulting in easier and more frequent transcription of the genes in this area (the prefrontal cortex).
Essentially, you are hypothesising that long-term potentiation may lead to chromatin remodelling and from there into epigenetic inheritence. This is probably true. There's a group in Texas who are working on this; here's a review you might enjoy. Epigenetic mechanisms in memory formation So yes, now that you've brought this up I concede that it is possible, through this mechanism. Thanks for making this thread different to all the others But it's still pretty unlikely, with no evidence to support it actually happening. You would need to prove that psilocybin is capable of inducing long-term potentiation (memory formation) above & beyond what an animal would normally receive as part of daily experiences; that is, do we learn faster while under the influence of psilocybin? I'm doubtful, as I've said before. Secondly, purely from an paleoanthropological point of view, there's no need to use mushrooms to explain the evolution of the prefrontal cortex - there already is an extremely strong selective pressure. There's no gaps in our knowledge there that requires something like mushrooms to fill it, and if you did put forward a mushroom-induced evolution hypothesis, it would probably conflict with many well-supported theories. It would be... an uphill battle, let's say
Edit: er, I'm a moron, I forgot that epigenetics is not inherited unless it's in the germline cells! Your germline cells are not in your brain (despite jokes made by women) so there is no way that long-term potentiation can affect your offspring. We can put that Lamarckian idea to rest.
-------------------- I know... that just the smallest part of the world belongs to me You know... I'm not a blind man but truth is the hardest thing to see
Edited by zouden (10/03/08 06:07 PM)
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PookztA
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: zouden]
#9029530 - 10/04/08 05:41 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
zouden said:
Edit: er, I'm a moron, I forgot that epigenetics is not inherited unless it's in the germline cells! Your germline cells are not in your brain (despite jokes made by women) so there is no way that long-term potentiation can affect your offspring. We can put that Lamarckian idea to rest.
damn you are right about the germ cells....
one would think though that since male germ cells are constantly being created, that epigenetic changes around genes in parts of the body as important as the brain, would eventually manifest or affect the DNA in the germ cells...
what about if we just think of things as "learned"?
for example, if fungus use led a few monkeys to stand up (crude terminology), then wouldnt their offspring simply imitate / learn this behavior by viewing the parents? then they would pass it down, etc...
same thing with language. language is simply picked up by the offspring due to learning, its not inherited via genetics...
thoughts?
-------------------- Abrahm Spreading Psytrance & Love in the Midwest USA Expand Your Consciousness. 9/11 Challenge: Explain the Evidence http://pookzta.blogspot.com
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zouden
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: PookztA]
#9029551 - 10/04/08 05:52 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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It's possible, but you don't need mushrooms to know how to stand up. Primates do that all the time, so it's not much of a stretch from there to us humans walking upright permanently. Similarly, we can explain the development of language or the introduction of fire without requiring the influence of magic mushrooms.
-------------------- I know... that just the smallest part of the world belongs to me You know... I'm not a blind man but truth is the hardest thing to see
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Middleman
Registered: 07/11/99
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: zouden]
#9030293 - 10/04/08 10:07 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Not creationist but interventionist propaganda:
If the Darwinists are so wrong, where are they wrong? What is the fundamental mistake they are making? It has to do with where they are looking, which is the cell, inside the cell, and specifically at the functioning of DNA. Because the twisting double-helix of DNA contains the instructions for all of life’s processes, the assumption has always been that disruptions in the patterns of those instructions are the only logical explanation for how physiological changes at both the micro (small) and macro (large) level must be created and executed. In other words, changes in DNA (mutations) must be the engine driving all aspects of evolutionary change. Nothing else makes sense.
Sensible or not, however, it is wrong. Why? Because in 1984 a group of British researchers decided to do an experiment utilizing what was then considered to be a universal truth about genes, handed down from Gregor Mendel himself: the idea that genes are sexless. Mendel had postulated that a gene from either parent, whether plant or animal, was equally useful and effective throughout the lifetime of the individual possessing it. This was taken as gospel until those British researchers tried to create mouse embryos carrying either two copies of “father” genes or two copies of “mother” genes. According to Mendel’s laws of inheritance, both male and female embryos should have developed normally. After all, they had a full complement of genes, and if genes were indeed sexless they had all they needed to gestate and thrive.
The researchers were stunned when all of their carefully crafted embryos were dead within a few days of being transferred to a surrogate mother’s womb. How could it happen? What could have gone so wrong in a scenario that couldn’t go wrong? They were completely baffled. What they didn’t know, and what many refuse to accept even now, fourteen years later, is that they had unwittingly opened their own--and their icon’s--darkest, blackest box. They had ventured into a region of the cell, and of the functioning of DNA, that they hadn’t imagined was off-limits. By taking that inadvertent journey they ended up forging an entirely new understanding of Mendelian inheritance, while driving a stake through the already weakened heart of Darwinian evolution.
A Time To Live And A Time To Die Normally, father genes or mother genes control the expression of their own activity. A father gene might give, for example, the signal for a crop of head hair to grow--to “express” itself--and to stop expressing when the follicles had been constructed in their proper places in the scalp. The cessation of the expressing process is called methylation, which is the surrounding of expressing genes with clusters of chemicals that shut them off (picture the cap being put back on a toothpaste tube). In the same way, a mother gene might express a pair of eyes and then, when they were completed, “methylate” the gene’s growth processes into inactivity.
Until 1984, it was believed that all genetic function operated the same way. If a gene or suite of genes came from Dad’s side of the mating process, then those genes managed their own affairs from birth until death. And the same held true for genes coming from Mom’s side of the mating. But certain genes turned out to exhibit radical differences, depending on whose side of the mating process they came from. When the female mouse embryos died, it was found that genes vital to their growth had inexplicably never been turned on at all, while still others were never turned off (methylated) and spiraled unchecked into cancers. Even more baffling, the fatal processes in the all-male embryos were entirely different from those in the all-females. The embryos were dying for reasons that were clearly sex-biased. What could it possibly mean?
Imprinted genes were found to be the culprit. Imprinted genes, it turned out, could be expressed by either parent and, incredibly, methylated by the other parent! Somehow, someway, by means not clearly imagined, much less understood, genes from one parent had the ability to independently begin or end processes that were critical to the lives of forming embryos. In the world of genetics as it had always been perceived, that was impossible. Only a localized (sexless) gene should be able to control its own destiny or purpose, not a separate gene from an entirely different parent. Cooperating genes broke all the rules of physical inheritance that had been written by Gregor Mendel. Yet imprinted genes do, in fact, disregard Mendel’s rules; and by doing so they provide the above mentioned stake that will inevitably be driven through the heart of classic Darwinian evolution.
Life's Blueprint Writ Wrong So far geneticists have identified about 20 imprinted genes embedded within the 80,000 to 100,000 believed to comprise the entire human genome. New ones are discovered on a regular basis, with many geneticists predicting the final tally will reach hundreds, while others suspect the total might reach into the thousands. But whether hundreds or thousands, any imprinted genes at all means that classic Darwinism can no longer count on mutations in DNA as a plausible mechanism for fundamental physical change.
For mutations to be acceptable as the engine of Darwinian change, they have to be able to occur in isolation and then, as stated earlier, pass themselves intact to succeeding generations. By definition that means they have to be able to regulate their own functions, both to express and to methylate their genetic processes. Whenever a trait mutates, whether a longer limb, a stronger muscle, or a more efficient organ, it should pass into the gene pool whole and complete, not half of it being expressed from the male side of a pairing and half from the female side. Why? Because both parents would have to mutate in complementary ways at the same time to the same degree...and then they would have to find each other and mate in order to have even a chance to pass the mutation on!
Natural mutations, while statistically rare, are clearly documented. They can be neutral, negative, or positive. So when geneticists contend that isolated mutations in DNA can occur and be passed on to succeeding generations, they first assume the individual with the mutation has been fortunate enough to have the correct one out of the three possibilities. They further assume the individual survives the brutal winnowing process Darwin so correctly labeled “survival of the fittest.” But fittest or not, any fledgling animal or plant must contend with an infinite number of ways to miss the boat to maturity. Assuming that passage is safe, the lucky individual with the positive mutation has to get lucky several more times to produce enough offspring so that at least a few of them possess his or her positive mutation and also survive to maturity to pass it along. It is a series of events that, taken altogether, are extremely unlikely but at least they are feasible, and they do, in fact, happen.
Imprinted genes, however, neatly sever those threads of feasibility by making it literally impossible for any mutation, positive or otherwise, to effect more than the individual expressing it. There is certainly no way for it to work its way into a gene pool regulated by imprinted genes. Why? For the reasons just stated above: for a mutation to be implemented, it must be beneficial and it must be paired with a similar change in a member of the opposite sex. Thus, if only a handful of genes are capable of being turned on and off by different parents, then Darwinian evolution has no place in the grand scheme of life on Earth. Imprinting shoves Darwinists well beyond any hope of feasibility, to a region of DNA where change is incapable of being positive.
Timing Really Is Everything What we are really talking about with imprinting processes is timing, the most exquisite and incomprehensible faculty any gene possesses. By knowing when--and being able--to turn on and off the millions to billions of biological processes that create and sustain living organisms, genes control the switches that control life itself. In effect, whatever controls the timing switches controls the organism. If, for example, only one methyl group misses its turn-off signal on an expressing gene, the resultant non-stop expressing will lead to cellular overproduction and, ultimately, cancer. Conversely, if only one gene fails to express when it should, at the very least a seriously negative event has occurred, and at worst the organism has suffered a catastrophe that will terminate its life.
More important than this, however, is that timing sequences cannot be altered in any way, shape, or form that will not be detrimental to offspring. In other words, the “evolution” of a timing sequence in the development of an embryo or a growing offspring simply cannot be favorable in the Darwinian sense. Why? Because in terms of results it is already perfect. And how do we know it is perfect? Because the parents both reached maturity. What is so special about their reaching maturity? It means their own timing sequences performed perfectly in their own embryos, with their initial sperm and egg differentiating in millions of ways to become their bodies. (In plants the same principle holds true). Then their growing period developed perfectly, with its millions of different timing events leading to their limbs and organs growing to their proper sizes and carrying on their proper functions.
Any alteration of that perfection can be, and nearly always is, devastating. In golf a putt drops or it doesn’t. In timing sequences, they are started and stopped precisely, or not. There is no room for error or improvement (no third condition called “better”). Thus, no genetic alteration to timing can create the faster legs, larger horns, sharper teeth, etc., called for by Darwin’s theory of piecemeal change. This is why gills cannot become lungs, why fins cannot become limbs, why scales cannot become fur or skin. No single timing mechanism can “evolve” without altering the perfection that has been passed to offspring by parents through untold generations.
A good analogy is the building of a house. We start with a blueprint. Analogize this with the genetic blueprint provided by DNA. The former outlines the physical materials that go into a house: wood, nails, sheetrock, doors, etc. The latter outlines the physical materials that go into creating a body: blood, bones, skin, hair, etc. Next, we bring in the carpenters who will build the house. It is they who, following our carefully drawn blueprint, will determine everything that will be done to create our house. More importantly, they will determine when all parts of the house will be built, when any particular process will start and when it will stop. They will build the floor before the walls, the walls before the roof, etc.
Building our house is thus a two-part project: what to build, and how and when to build it. It is the same with living organisms, whose carpenter genes (the mysterious timing mechanisms that turn growth processes on and off) determine their success. Now it becomes easy to understand Darwin’s fundamental error. While examining the widely varied houses of living organisms, he saw no trace of the invisible carpenters who have the decisive hand in their creation. Therefore, his theory did not--and so far cannot--account for the fact that carpenter genes invariably prohibit alterations.
If I Had A Hammer As with a house, DNA contains or provides everything necessary to create a particular organism, whether animal or plant. DNA has the further capacity to define and manufacture the physiological materials needed to create the entirety of the organism, precisely when they are needed and to the exact degree they are needed. And, perhaps most wondrous of all, DNA contains the ineffable carpenter genes that determine when each phase of the organism’s construction will begin and end. Any organism’s parents will have passed to it a set of DNA blueprints of what to build and how to build it, which are nearly always perfect with respect to timing, but allowing slight variations in what is built. On the occasions when faulty timing does lead to tragedy, the imperfections are due to sperm-egg misconnects, or molecular anomalies in DNA caused by radiation or chemicals.
Where classic Darwinian evolution completely breaks down is in not allowing carpenter genes to exist separately from end results. Darwinism contends that when any aspect of an organism’s materials change (i.e., a mutation in some strand of DNA which changes some aspect of physical structure), that organism’s carpenter genes smoothly accommodate the change (alter the blueprint) by adjusting the timing sequences (beginning and end) of that structure’s development. This is not reality. A Watusi’s thighbone takes just as long to form as a Pygmy’s thighbone (about 18 years), so only the end results--their respective sizes--have changed, not their timing processes. This is one reason why all human beings can so easily interbreed, even the unlikely combination of Watusis and Pygmies. Our vast array of underlying genetic timing mechanisms, including our imprinted genes, have been handed down intact (unevolved!) since the beginning of our existence as a species.
Thus, what is built can be slowly, gradually altered; how it is built cannot. This obvious fact...this undeniable truth...has the most profound implications: In the carpenter genes of successful organisms, no improvement is possible! And without improvement, via Darwinian change, how could they have evolved? Not just into something from nothing, but into millions of interlocking, tightly sequenced commands that smoothly mesh over extended periods as organisms develop from embryo to birth to sexual maturity? The short answer is, “They can’t.”
What all this means, of course, is that everything we think we know about how life develops on Earth is flatly wrong. It means all of our “experts” are totally mistaken when they tell us that Darwin’s theory of gradual mutations has led to the development of all species of plants and animals on the planet. Nothing could be further from the truth. Darwinism cannot work now, it has never been able to work, and the time has come for its supporters to stop their intellectual posturing and admit they need to go back to their drawing boards to seek a more plausible explanation for what is surely life’s greatest single mystery.
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zouden
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: Middleman]
#9031020 - 10/05/08 02:08 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Summary?
-------------------- I know... that just the smallest part of the world belongs to me You know... I'm not a blind man but truth is the hardest thing to see
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Middleman
Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: zouden]
#9031054 - 10/05/08 02:20 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Don't trust science, it doesn't even really know why an object falls to the ground.
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zouden
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: Middleman]
#9031070 - 10/05/08 02:29 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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I don't see anything else putting forward an explanation, do you?
-------------------- I know... that just the smallest part of the world belongs to me You know... I'm not a blind man but truth is the hardest thing to see
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Middleman
Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: zouden]
#9031123 - 10/05/08 03:06 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Touché.
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PookztA
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: Middleman]
#9032260 - 10/05/08 12:44 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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i still see the theory as a valid possibility that requires far more research. intervention is definitely how humans evolved... either genetic recombination, or perhaps mushroom manipulation of the genome.... who knows.
but SOMETHING happened that caused us to evolve from our primate ancestors very quickly, and for me, i like to believe that mushrooms had a significant role with that
i am not right, but its fun to be faithful about things that inspire us to go further in life, and this is what in spires me, so thank you for having this intelligent, open-minded discussion with me guys!
i love this forum, and will be donating soon to become a supporter account!
SHINE ON!
-------------------- Abrahm Spreading Psytrance & Love in the Midwest USA Expand Your Consciousness. 9/11 Challenge: Explain the Evidence http://pookzta.blogspot.com
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nonwo
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: PookztA]
#9033947 - 10/05/08 06:45 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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things fall becuse jesus he put dino bones here to test our faith
-------------------- yellow red black and white cometogether as humans and fallow the path the creater intended
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Sleepwalker
Overshoes
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: nonwo]
#9033971 - 10/05/08 06:50 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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orly
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Gomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: Sleepwalker]
#9035939 - 10/06/08 06:21 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Think about it, if a tree evolved in to being a human, why are there still trees?
They did evolve, no?
Same goes for apes.. Wake the *2424*/24 up?
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zouden
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: Gomp]
#9035983 - 10/06/08 06:57 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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lol
-------------------- I know... that just the smallest part of the world belongs to me You know... I'm not a blind man but truth is the hardest thing to see
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kay62105
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: zouden]
#9036612 - 10/06/08 10:46 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yeah and we share 90% of our genes with cows, and their shit grows our mushrooms, ooooohhh craaaazzzyyy. Plus I doubt monkeys ate mushrooms way back in the day. Their animal instict would tell them not to eat them. I would never give my dog shrooms, but my boyfriend wanted to see how she would react to them and she wont go near them, and that dog will eat anything.
-------------------- There is nothing worse than a sharp image of a fuzzy concept - Ansel Adams<img src="https://files.shroomery.org/smileys/heart.gif" alt="" title=""/>
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DasKomet
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: Gomp]
#9039206 - 10/06/08 08:48 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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I believe chimps can do psilo and sleep into us, in that their CNS melts into ours and changes our day to day lives. Sitting stupified wondering "Did the monkeys get you?"
Laters, DasKomet
-------------------- The Woven World is all I see. Put cloves in your weed and tell them its for the LSD. .oO0 Listen to White Zombie 0Oo.
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zouden
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: kay62105]
#9040145 - 10/07/08 12:10 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Yeah and we share 90% of our genes with cows, and their shit grows our mushrooms, ooooohhh craaaazzzyyy. Plus I doubt monkeys ate mushrooms way back in the day. Their animal instict would tell them not to eat them.
Yeah that's a good point, we don't see them eating mushrooms now.
-------------------- I know... that just the smallest part of the world belongs to me You know... I'm not a blind man but truth is the hardest thing to see
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PookztA
Medical Student
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HUGE UPDATE: PARAMUTATION! [Re: zouden]
#11003583 - 09/05/09 10:10 AM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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OMG! huge update!!!
i just found out how Epigenetic influences, such as histone acetylation which makes certain genes on our DNA more accessible to transcriptional enzymes so that those genes can be upregulated / transcribed more, can get transfered to the next generation of offspring!
it is called PARAMUTATION! look it up! it involves regulatory RNA molecules, such as siRNA and miRNA. certain RNA molecules get included in the sperm and in the egg, and when they fuse, these regulatory RNA molecules then apply the epigenetic pattern of methylation and acetylation that is found in our somatic cells. This is how epigenetic changes in the frontal cortex, due to mushroom use, could be transferred into the next generation of offspring! this topic of Paramutation is currently blowing up and being researched more and more for its obvious implications involving human evolution!
this means that if mushrooms truly did upregulate genes that code for more neurons and neuronal proteins of the frontal cortex (which would correlate to increased self-awareness and logic of humans)... that certain RNAs that were included in the Sperm and Egg would then apply this same pattern of upregulation in the offspring once fertilization has occurred!
this is how the upregulation of the human frontal cortex genes could be passed onto future offspring!
so maybe we DID evolve in part due to mushroom use!!! who knows though!
-------------------- Abrahm Spreading Psytrance & Love in the Midwest USA Expand Your Consciousness. 9/11 Challenge: Explain the Evidence http://pookzta.blogspot.com
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PookztA
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Re: HUGE UPDATE: PARAMUTATION! [Re: PookztA]
#11003586 - 09/05/09 10:11 AM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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I looked into it some more and Paramutation is definitely the correct term. Another related term is genomic-imprinting, but only paramutation refers to the inheritence and influence of RNA molecules from the parents in order to modify (turn on/off) genes in the offspring.
To simplify: Scientists are learning that an offspring's pattern of gene expression does not only depend on which genes we inherit from our parents. Rather, what also matters significantly is which of those genes we inherit are 'turned on' or 'turned off'. Paramutation refers to the process of inherited RNA molecules which apply the 'on / off' patterns of parental gene regulation to the developing offspring, so that genes which were up-regulated or down-regulated in the parental generation will also be up-regulated or down-regulated in their offspring.
Here's a great BBC article giving a simplification of Epigenetic influence and paramutation:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/5011826.stm
Also, this is from Wikipedia:
Evolution
"Although epigenetics in multicellular organisms is generally thought to be a mechanism involved in differentiation, with epigenetic patterns "reset" when organisms reproduce, there have been many observations of transgenerational epigenetic inheritance (e.g., the phenomenon of paramutation observed in maize).
The possibility remains that multigenerational epigenetics could be another aspect to evolution and adaptation. These effects may require enhancements to the standard conceptual framework of the modern evolutionary synthesis.[32][33]"
Link to wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetic
the point here is: regulatory RNA molecules are inherited from your parents, just as the cytoplasm and mitochondria of the egg the mother contributes and the centrioles of the sperm your father contributes are also inherited by the offspring. These regulatory RNA molecules then modify the DNA of the offspring during development, so that genes which were more expressed or repressed in your parents are also more expressed or repressed in their offspring (DNA acetylation results in certain genes being more accessible and expressed. DNA methylation results in certain genes being less accessible and expressed.)
-------------------- Abrahm Spreading Psytrance & Love in the Midwest USA Expand Your Consciousness. 9/11 Challenge: Explain the Evidence http://pookzta.blogspot.com
Edited by PookztA (09/05/09 10:35 AM)
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ElevatedMinds
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Re: HUGE UPDATE: PARAMUTATION! [Re: PookztA]
#11003779 - 09/05/09 11:07 AM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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I've been into this subject for the last couple months after a really enlightening shroom trip. Thanks for the last post and the rest of the facts.
Just food for thought... I watched this show on Nat Geo about the path of human evoltuion... tracing our genetic roots, I forgot what it was called... We all start off in Africa apparently where Terence Mckenna says the climate changes and we come down from the trees and start finding more food sources... Well they traced the path of human evolution North out of Africa and then splitting east and west into Europe and Asia... If the climate was changing like Terence Mckenna theorizes, then that would explain why evolution would follow the climate north into the wetter regions. They followed the mushroom...
-------------------- Check out my music on Myspace: myspace.com/elevatedminds69
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PookztA
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Quote:
ElevatedMinds said: I've been into this subject for the last couple months after a really enlightening shroom trip. Thanks for the last post and the rest of the facts.
Just food for thought... I watched this show on Nat Geo about the path of human evoltuion... tracing our genetic roots, I forgot what it was called... We all start off in Africa apparently where Terence Mckenna says the climate changes and we come down from the trees and start finding more food sources... Well they traced the path of human evolution North out of Africa and then splitting east and west into Europe and Asia... If the climate was changing like Terence Mckenna theorizes, then that would explain why evolution would follow the climate north into the wetter regions. They followed the mushroom...
wow I never thought about this... i never even thought about why early hominids left Africa... crazy points man, thanks for the insight!
and thanks for reading and giving feedback!
-------------------- Abrahm Spreading Psytrance & Love in the Midwest USA Expand Your Consciousness. 9/11 Challenge: Explain the Evidence http://pookzta.blogspot.com
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: PookztA]
#11003843 - 09/05/09 11:27 AM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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Chimpanzees are the result of their own line of evolution. Obviously, there are still chimpanzees. I read somewhere an account of chimps who were shown, and then given psychedelic mushrooms. They had a terrible time of it. Next time that they were shown common salad mushrooms (Agaricus bisporus), the chimps went ape-shit!
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PookztA
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
#11003873 - 09/05/09 11:36 AM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: Chimpanzees are the result of their own line of evolution. Obviously, there are still chimpanzees. I read somewhere an account of chimps who were shown, and then given psychedelic mushrooms. They had a terrible time of it. Next time that they were shown common salad mushrooms (Agaricus bisporus), the chimps went ape-shit!
link to the article you are referencing? when was that experiment conducted? how large was the dose? i would imagine the very very first chimpanzee mushroom doses were miniscule.. perhaps even just one mushroom or two... mushrooms have lots of proteins, vitamins, and nutrients in them and are a good source of nutrition... so maybe they were a food source initially?
just as when they tested marijuana on chimpanzees, i am guessing that the dose was unrealistically high. the first chimpanzee ever to eat a mushroom most likely just ate one little mushroom or two, to see the effects. in a world of poisonous animals and berries, i think it is safe to say they would not fill their stomachs until they tested a few fungi to make sure they were not poisonous or toxic....
-------------------- Abrahm Spreading Psytrance & Love in the Midwest USA Expand Your Consciousness. 9/11 Challenge: Explain the Evidence http://pookzta.blogspot.com
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ElevatedMinds
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: PookztA]
#11003939 - 09/05/09 11:55 AM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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Yeah in the lower doses (1 - 2 grams) the effects would only be enough to give them better eyesight, hearing and improved awareness. The chimps that could handle more of these mushrooms survived easier because it enhanced their senses... If they got accustomed to small doses of these mushrooms, then after a while of tolerance build up, they probably had to eat more to get the same effects, causing some chimps to "expand their mind" so to speak... The smarter chimps out-survived the stronger dumber chimps, leading to an evolution of the mind rather than the body.
Quote:
Chimpanzees are the result of their own line of evolution. Obviously, there are still chimpanzees.
That is because not all Chimpanzees were part of this evolutionary process of mushrooms... Only the groups of chimps that ate mushrooms would have evolved, the rest would have stayed the same.
If humans evolve in the future, there will still be normal humans that didn't evolve in the same way, but there will also be humans with whatever our future genetic traits may be. Especially if Terence Mckenna's right... then only a small group of humans that expand their consciousness will pass on those traits...
-------------------- Check out my music on Myspace: myspace.com/elevatedminds69
Edited by ElevatedMinds (09/05/09 12:03 PM)
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PookztA
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: ElevatedMinds]
#11004763 - 09/05/09 02:58 PM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
ElevatedMinds said: Yeah in the lower doses (1 - 2 grams) the effects would only be enough to give them better eyesight, hearing and improved awareness. The chimps that could handle more of these mushrooms survived easier because it enhanced their senses... If they got accustomed to small doses of these mushrooms, then after a while of tolerance build up, they probably had to eat more to get the same effects, causing some chimps to "expand their mind" so to speak... The smarter chimps out-survived the stronger dumber chimps, leading to an evolution of the mind rather than the body.
Quote:
Chimpanzees are the result of their own line of evolution. Obviously, there are still chimpanzees.
That is because not all Chimpanzees were part of this evolutionary process of mushrooms... Only the groups of chimps that ate mushrooms would have evolved, the rest would have stayed the same.
If humans evolve in the future, there will still be normal humans that didn't evolve in the same way, but there will also be humans with whatever our future genetic traits may be. Especially if Terence Mckenna's right... then only a small group of humans that expand their consciousness will pass on those traits...
well said
-------------------- Abrahm Spreading Psytrance & Love in the Midwest USA Expand Your Consciousness. 9/11 Challenge: Explain the Evidence http://pookzta.blogspot.com
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Minstrel
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: PookztA]
#11006144 - 09/05/09 09:00 PM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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Chemically, I the interaction of a tryptamine with an organism in order to vary alle frequency would require a very advanced metabolic pathway. Clearly it influences our chemical state, but for it to result in inheritable traits seems to be somewhat of a stretch. I'd be skeptical that it had any direct influence on our evolution from a chemical standpoint.
Now, that being said, any drug can influence the evolution indirectly as an environment pressure. We were undoubtedly exposed to such drugs through our basal ape stages. Our brains are clearly adapted to handle such drugs. Some of us, better than others. Be it overdose resistance, or perhaps being able to utilize the effects of the drugs for dealing with other environmental pressures.
So, that being said, it is not the 'expanding consciousness' that passes on traits, but rather the ones better able to utilize the drug's effects would be more adapt at survival.
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ElevatedMinds
Mushroom
Registered: 08/24/09
Posts: 67
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: Minstrel]
#11006220 - 09/05/09 09:12 PM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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That's true, but beyond just the physical benefits of mushrooms, we have all seen what it does to the mind. One study showed 60% of the first time users said it was the most spiritual and real experience of their life... changing their lives for the better. Now we ain't claiming this is how it happened exactly. But we're saying the missing link in the transition from chimps to humans, might be a substance that only certain chimps in Africa started eating. It would explain alot...
On top of that, look at personal experiences... Look at the level of introspection that psychedelic users have as compared to the anti-drug american. The intelligence level and the thirst for knowledge of most trippers astounds me... I mean, for a bunch of "drug addicts", we sure are some smart motherfuckers. Maybe that's how civilization started.... who know...
-------------------- Check out my music on Myspace: myspace.com/elevatedminds69
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trx
Stranger
Registered: 01/30/11
Posts: 1
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? *UPDATED 09/05/2009* [Re: PookztA]
#13877367 - 01/30/11 03:40 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Evolve from chimpanzees?
Into what we are now?
In my opinion.. no. The complexities and intelligence that make up any being capable of reading this post can't be explained as coming from JUST the consumption of psilocybin mushrooms.
Do you think feeding a group of chimps psilocybin would accelerate.. or push them into becoming something like more like us? More advanced?
Could mushrooms have played a part in evolution? Well.. i can't disagree with that. Anything that alters our thoughts can make us do something different.. and that could affect our future. Mushrooms responsible? I COULD disagree with that.
Psilocybin is no different from other psychoactive substances... you CAN take TOO MUCH of anything.
Mushrooms can expand your consciousness.. but they can also impair it as well.
Be careful with the notion that psilocybin will make you enlightened.. orbetter.. or make you become more. Very careful!
It simply gives you another way of looking at things.. IMO.
Born and raised in Texas.. cattle everywhere.. plenty of psilocybin mushroom experience.. plenty!
I enjoyed all my experiences with mushrooms. And still do. But I know damn well that overdoing it will not help me(or anyone) evolve into a better human being. That's just my experience with this psychoactive substance.
Then again, I could be wrong.
"We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time." T. S. Eliot
Appreciate on that quote a bit.
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