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Re: Am I an Alcoholic? [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7582805 -

lol dont think you are an alcoholic man. i drink pretty infrequently but you sound like most of my friends, and i wouldnt consider any of them alcoholics. also these people are making a good point about there not being a standard for alcoholism and the social definition of such things. the fact is society plays a big role on everything, and you need to put all that shit aside unless you are just looking for a title (alcoholic, non alcoholic). if you have a problem with alcohol you will know it, and if not then you are just overthinking it. based on what you wrote id say you are an average college drinker.

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Re: Am I an Alcoholic? [Re: evolprim]
    #7584967 -

Thanks for all of the responses. I've been running the same kind of thoughts. As I said, some friends of mine have been entertaining this discussion, here's a few of their ideas: 1. you're an alcoholic if you continue drinking as much as I currently am once I've graduated from college. It's just the act of graduating that seperates it being okay to binge-drink and not being okay. I think this idea is ridiculous, by the way, IMO.

I like the hypothetical of the deserted island, and bottles of wine magically showing up on the beach. I don't think it'd be a problem. We define alcoholics (or substance abusers, etc.) in comparison to the sober community. I think this is ridiculous--society should never depict what is acceptable or not (and considering this is a forum about psychedelic drugs, I believe most of you would agree with that).

I'm agreeing mostly with the idea that, as long as my drinking doesn't interfer with my 'goals', then it's okay. While I'm this young and things are relatively easy for me, I can get away with drinking two bottles of wine and taking a couple shots thursday evening, passing out, and waking up at 9:30 to go to my chemistry class, reeking of cigarettes and body odors, and following along half-way hungover, half-way still drunk in class. When I'm thirty, with a "career" that I need to be responsible in (I want to be a teacher... I can't show up reeking like cigarettes and half-hungover).. then this type of behaviour will not be acceptable.

I think this is a good way to describe alcoholism. As long as it doesn't present a problem, then it's "okay" or "acceptable."

Another thought, however, is mine about how I feel sober nights are 'boring' or they could be better if I were to drink a little (or a lot). Is this mentality wrong? It makes me more socially-less-awkward, i get relaxed and more friendly (i've never had an angry-drunk episode), and, well... let's be honest... it's fun! Where's the problem in this psychology?

Thanks for the feedback.


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YIPPIE!

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Re: Am I an Alcoholic? [Re: AnarchoTrip]
    #7585086 -

Well, it's undeniably true that alcohol makes people less inhibited and less socially awkward. I'm normally on the quieter, calmer side, but a few drinks (when I am in the mood for them) usually make me pretty chatty and forward. I really enjoy being like this. I really don't enjoy hangovers and the depression and anxiety that come with them. This is a big reason I tend to drink less frequently than I otherwise might.

I guess you might wanna ask yourself if drinking is a bandaid for a problem you are avoiding facing (social awkwardness,) or if you are trying to work on it in a more authentic way. There's nothing wrong with having some drinks and enjoying the dissolving of inhibitions. The problem is always how much it affects your life and the people you care about. You sound like you drink the same way a number of my friends and ex-partners drink. It seems like a pretty common thing for young people to binge drink, and I don't think it's necessarily a problem if you pay attention to how it effects you and don't make excuses to justify drinking when it's causing problems in your life. Just remember that your body isn't gonna support that kind of alcohol consumption forever, so take care of your liver! I recommend milk thistle tincture. Maybe a regular cleanse with dandelion, burdock, nettles, red clover, etc. as a tea.

** edit: and maybe make a point to go out and do things that are fun without liquor. Go to a show and don't have anything to drink. At least try to have a lower quantity of drinks. 2 bottles of wine and a couple shots on a thursday night seems a little over the top when you've gotta wake up at 9:30. This is the sort of thing that is easy enough to justify if it's infrequent and a special occasion, but if you are frequently drunk in class you are probably right to be questioning yourself.

Edited by NiamhNyx (11/01/07 06:54 PM)

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Re: Am I an Alcoholic? [Re: AnarchoTrip]
    #7585157 -

I was an alcoholic for about 15 years, and I would say that you are right on track.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Am I an Alcoholic? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #7585175 -

:thumbup:


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Am I an Alcoholic? [Re: Icelander]
    #7585180 -

Damn straight!


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Am I an Alcoholic? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #7585209 -

It's almost corny how many people bullshit themselves about alcoholism. When you're young you tell yourself some bullshit about quiting before it becomes a real problem in later life,:monkeydance:. This is one of  the most common types of human  delusional thinking.

Sure I can quit and I will.... later.:rofl2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Am I an Alcoholic? [Re: Icelander]
    #7585278 -

I still don't understand how thinking that a night could be a lot more enjoyable with a little bit to drink is wrong. What seperates alcohol and, say, video games, marijuana, sex, movies?

I'm not drinking to put a bandaid on my problems. I don't really think I have many problems at all--I'm very lucky in that life's been relatively easy and comfortable for me. I enjoy drinking because it makes any occasion slightly more interesting; conversations seem much more involved (okay, I'm not talking about 4am completely-wasted sloppy conversations), people seem more friendly and comfortable.

So how does frequency cause a problem? I'm not sure it's a matter of frequency, but rather, situation. Would it be a problem if my 75-year-old grandparents, both retired and financially capable (and let's say for argument's sake health isn't a factor), decided to drink every night? I don't think so...?

So then it's a matter of situation. no, it's not acceptable to go to a meeting drunk, but isn't it acceptable to drink after class/work and when I'm not responsible for my daughter that night? I think it's more of a situational thing.


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YIPPIE!

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Re: Am I an Alcoholic? [Re: AnarchoTrip]
    #7585294 -

Quote:
What seperates alcohol and, say, video games, marijuana, sex, movies?


Nothing until your enjoyment of these activities becomes chronic and throws your life out of balance. Daily or near daily use is not what I personally consider moderate, but that is just me. I started drinking for fun, but later found myself treating myself for anger and depression with alcohol....things change when your use becomes frequent. I still enjoy a drink now and again, but my days of daily use are gone.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Am I an Alcoholic? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #7585315 -

Nothing until your enjoyment of these activities becomes chronic and throws your life out of balance.

Exactly. If you're happy with your life and your substance usage, it's all good.

If not, it's not.

It's simple.


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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Am I an Alcoholic? [Re: AnarchoTrip]
    #7585450 -

AnarchoTrip said:
So how does frequency cause a problem? I'm not sure it's a matter of frequency, but rather, situation. Would it be a problem if my 75-year-old grandparents, both retired and financially capable (and let's say for argument's sake health isn't a factor), decided to drink every night? I don't think so...?




Well, if your grandparents got sloppy 4 am wasted every night it probably would be a problem, especially at thier age. They'd fall apart! There's a difference between one or two classes of wine a night and a couple bottles. Also, as far as social stigmatization goes, old people who drink a lot are usually looked down upon more than young people who do the same.

Like I said before, if you want to test your level of dependence, take a couple weeks off drinking. No liquor for two weeks. It's a worthwhile challenge and it may answer your question.

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Re: Am I an Alcoholic? [Re: AnarchoTrip]
    #7585573 -

Are you looking for a clinical diagnosis or a series of opinions?

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Re: Am I an Alcoholic? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #7585590 -

series of opinions. i don't really care about a diagnosis here.

i'm more interested in how we define things such as alcoholism and substance abuse. i'm more interested in how society has invented these terms and whether they're as terrible as we make them up to be.

or maybe i'm just rationalizing my serious problem(?)


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YIPPIE!

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Re: Am I an Alcoholic? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #7585608 -

Are you looking for a clinical diagnosis

I don't think an internet thread is sufficient for a clinical diagnosis of anything at all. But what do I know... :shrug:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Am I an Alcoholic? [Re: AnarchoTrip]
    #7585656 -

AnarchoTrip said:
series of opinions. i don't really care about a diagnosis here.

i'm more interested in how we define things such as alcoholism and substance abuse. i'm more interested in how society has invented these terms and whether they're as terrible as we make them up to be.

or maybe i'm just rationalizing my serious problem(?)


It's possible that there is truth in both of these.

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Re: Am I an Alcoholic? [Re: AnarchoTrip]
    #7585925 -

>>>>I still don't understand how thinking that a night could be a lot more enjoyable with a little bit to drink is wrong.

"little bit" eh? I'll be the bad guy, just keep in mind I'm only trying to be helpful, not judgmental. If you agree with nothing I say, disregard it. The thing with alcohol is that it isn't the chemical itself, unless you're reaching poison levels, which most people don't. Moderate drinking actually extends the average lifespan. Stress relief is a good thing. But alcohol is a non-nutritious substance, and is diuretic which flushes nutrients out of the system. Even fresh fruit juice and vodka will result in a net loss.

For me, the two issues are self abuse, and psychological dependency. If a person doesn't believe in such things, thoughtful observation can be neglected IMO. It's something to keep in mind, which seems to be what you're doing.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: Am I an Alcoholic? [Re: AnarchoTrip]
    #7585968 -

>>>>i'm more interested in how society has invented these terms and whether they're as terrible as we make them up to be.

Wikipedia has a good article under "alcoholism" that delves into the clinical aspects society has defined. There's also an article at Wikipedia under "Effects of alcohol on the body" that goes into the short-term effects of alcohol (not all bad), and has links to articles focused on the long term effects of alcohol.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: Am I an Alcoholic? [Re: Rahz]
    #7586170 -

Contrary to some here dismissing psychological definitions, I am going to stick with them simply because from personal experience, I believe they work with alcoholism. I also think you definitely demonstrate the early symptoms, not that that necessarily demands they lead to a larger problem in the future. You are young where they may disappear with age.

During my college career I had one semester during which I drank four nights a week (monday- thursday at about 4-7 drinks a night because I did not have any tolerance yet). I was 21 too, so I could buy as much as I wanted. But, this is an early warning sign that the propensity for a larger dependence exists.

You already habitually (key classification) abuse alcohol; and the fact that certain events are currently compelling you to avoid drinking is a tell-tale sign to me. Why? Because I was the same way. But, just wait until you start to realize you can accomplish the same daily activities drunk off your ass-- attending classes still lit in the morning huh??? Yep, that sounds just like me (and still making near a 4.0).

Don't get me wrong, Winston Churchill drank multiple bottles of liquor and wine a day, and lived a fairly accomplished, controlled and successful life. But, I really do believe now that he was an exception to alcoholism.

I wholeheartedly suggest you give up alcohol for at least two-three months. Since most clinical diagnosies such as depression cannot be separated from alcohol withdrawal, you need this period of sobriety to assess why you are compelled to drink. If at the two month mark you start feeling angry, depressed, bored etc. and drink to alleviate that mental state, then you may say with more certainty whether you are an alcoholic, or self-medicating a psychological disorder with alcohol.

In sum, the point I think is key here is that you are able to balance near daily drinking with work/school/family. You demonstrate signs of regimentation that remind me of myself in retrospect. The problem arises when school ends, and that compulsion not to drink vanishes. What about when you realize you can get away with drinking at work? Let us just say someone I know very well currently is an alcoholic, and you would not believe how much he/she can accomplish still under a daily influence. He/she usually seems like the most sober and responsible one out of a group.

I do not mean to get preachy. Hell, if you want to drink yourself out of existence, many have done it before, and contributed a lot doing it. But, this is not always the case. Ron "Pigpen" McKeirnan, Raul Seixas, Truman Capote etc. are probably exceptions to the rule. The other 80% are drinking from a brown paper bag on the street corner, babble incoherently, and- I believe- are honestly missing out on the greatest fruit of existence: mental growth.

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Re: Am I an Alcoholic? [Re: TrueBrode]
    #7586274 -

Thre are many highly functioning alcoholics. My archaeology professor for example. The man talked about beer every chance he got - several times each class. He sucessfully kept it out of his professional life and alotted drinking to appropriate times and seems to be doing just fine. An old friend's dad was a highschool principle and an alcoholic. He drank a lot of wine, but he managed to be good at his job and be a pretty good father to boot. I'm not encouraging alcoholism and I would certainly encourage anyone with a problem to think about toning it down or quitting altogether, but I'm just pointing out that it is possible to be a highly functioning alcoholic. My father was the kind of alcoholic that ended up living in the ghetto for his drinking, after my parents split up (over the issue of alcohol) when I was 4 months old. He hasn't had a drop to drink in 22 years and he's doing quite well for himself these days. If you're a drinker like my father, you should definitly stop now and never look back. But if you're a drinker like a lot of other people you might have a bit of wiggle room. You'll have to make that call yourself.

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Re: Am I an Alcoholic? [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7586615 -

That was how I functioned. I was working a full time job and raising a family while consuming 5 cases of beer a week. I was very agreeable and happy seeming while drunk and a pissed off SOB while sober. This made the drinking seem acceptable to others...I was a monster to deal with sober.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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