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OfflineAnarchoTrip
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Am I an Alcoholic?
    #7581855 - 10/31/07 06:18 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Here's the situation:

I'm 19 years old, I'm a full time student at a college planning on graduating with a degree in philosophy and behavioural neuroscience. I have a 3.5 GPA and I do pretty good in school.

I have a two-year-old daughter that I see every-other-day. I still have some internal issues about the situation (you try being sixteen and having a child), but I've gotten to the point where I can now at least honestly say I love her.

Enough background, here's the deal: Every night that I don't have my daughter I go over to my college and hangout with my friends over there. Yes, we all drink--quite a bit. Nearly every night I'm over there, I drink. Here are some specifics:

Sometimes I drink alone (but it's not unusual with my circle of friends--they don't look down on it). Often I steal my alcohol because I'm underage and I don't have enough money (but, also take into consideration I also steal other things, not only booze. so it's not specifically only alcohol that I steal).

On nights where I don't drink, and I'm over with my friends, it's alright--but I feel like it could be better if I were drinking. It's kind of like sober nights are boring...

However! Here's some good things: I never drink when I have homework. If I need to get some homework done, I just get it done--and then go drink. Class in the morning doesn't matter, I've gone to class in the morning drunk because of staying up until 4am the night before drinking, however.

I never drink around my daughter. I don't drink on days I'm going to see her.

I never drink before I go to work, I've never gone to work drunk or hungover.

I never drink before... 4-ish. But that's just because I feel like i shouldn't because of society--not because i internally feel that it's "wrong."

So what's up? am I just a binge-drinking college kid or an alcoholic? Some friends and I have been debating this lately, and I'm just curious. This isn't any kind of cry for help (i'm drinking tonight regardless), I'm just
Am I an Alcoholic?
You may choose only one


Votes accepted from (10/31/07 06:17 PM) to (No end specified)
You must vote before you can view the results of this poll



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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: Am I an Alcoholic? [Re: AnarchoTrip]
    #7581919 - 10/31/07 06:33 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I don't know man, do you think you're an alcoholic? Do you feel like you're drinking negatively affects your life? Does it damage your social relationships? Do you feel like drinking less would allow you to make further progress in whatever goals you have? Is drinking an escape from your problems? Can you have fun without drinking?

Drinking frequently and stealing booze do not mean that a person is an alcoholic. Drinking despite the fact that it damages important things in your life would mean that you have a problem. Get my drift? Since none of us know you, none of us can tell you whether or not it's a problem for you. Only you and your friends and family have that kind of insight.

I'm voting 'no' just so I can see the poll results, so discount one no vote... it would be good to have a 'maybe' option as well...


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Am I an Alcoholic? [Re: AnarchoTrip]
    #7581984 - 10/31/07 06:51 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I'm guessing that if you're not then you're on your way. Alcoholism is pretty rampant and often starts early on -but I feel like it could be better if I were drinking this is IMO a giveaway.

You seem like a cool guy and have set some guidelines for your drinking. Unfortunately as we go on in life things often become more challenging then less and our guidelines slowly or quickly go out the window often with serious and damaging consequences.

I have seen so much of this in friends and workmates that for me it is almost a given.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinemushroomplume
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Re: Am I an Alcoholic? [Re: Icelander]
    #7582270 - 10/31/07 08:21 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

The fact that you asked this implies that you yourself, suspects you are an alcoholic.

I would suggest getting drunk only once or twice a month if you have to. It's bad for you and you should find a way to enjoy life without it.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Am I an Alcoholic? [Re: AnarchoTrip]
    #7582307 - 10/31/07 08:35 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Would it be rude of me to point out that this probably the wrong forum?


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: Am I an Alcoholic? [Re: AnarchoTrip]
    #7582318 - 10/31/07 08:38 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I find answers come easier when you take the concept of society out of the equation.

If you were alone, stranded on an island, and on this magical wonderful island all your favorite drinks wash up on shore to keep you in drink, and you find yourself drinking as much as you do now.... would you consider yourself an alcoholic?

my favorite quote from my father is when he would say "son, I would be an alcoholic if I had enough time".
How do you define an alcoholic? well, I think the best definition is whether or not it begins to interfere with your goals and in general your prospective life.
If you think that it is interferring with something like gaining full custody of your daughter, or your school work, or the respect you get from others... then yeah, you have a "problem"...


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: Am I an Alcoholic? [Re: Silversoul]
    #7582334 - 10/31/07 08:40 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
Would it be rude of me to point out that this probably the wrong forum?




maybe he was looking for a philosophical response rather than 14 posts about how "I used to be an alcoholic" and "my dad was an alcoholic", like he would get in the health forum.


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Am I an Alcoholic? [Re: AnarchoTrip]
    #7582476 - 10/31/07 09:33 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

An alcoholic can be defined as someone who abuses alcohol.

An alcoholic can also be defined as someone who is chemically dependent on alcohol.

Mental dependence and physical dependence.

Drinking in the way you describe is abuse IMO, making you a mental addict.

Is getting drunk, abuse de facto?


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rahz

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"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: Am I an Alcoholic? [Re: AnarchoTrip]
    #7582510 - 10/31/07 09:47 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I think the best way to test your level of dependence is to take a couple weeks or a month off drinking. If you find yourself craving alcohol, bored and frustrated because you can't have it, than maybe you have a problem. Several of my alcoholic friends have taken celibacy periods off of drinking, and it was good for them. They still drink and they don't plan on quitting, but living without your vice for an extended period of time helps you learn how to enjoy yourself without it and guage how much of a problem it really is. At least one of those friends came out of it with the decision to calm it down a bit. She used to drink straight swill liquor because it was too expensive to buy mix (but she could afford the booze) and she would buy liquor before food most days, often barely eating. This is a problem. She is still a drinker, but now she eats a lot more and drinks less frequently and less quantity.

Take a break, see how it goes. :shrug:


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: Am I an Alcoholic? [Re: Rahz]
    #7582533 - 10/31/07 09:58 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

:shitstorm:

how do you abuse alcohol? beat it with a stick? say that it should cover up its chest pillows?
that term is such psychobabble crap...

an alcoholic is defined as that other guy who drinks more than you more often than you, making you thus, not an alcoholic.
Trying to objectively put some threshold on alcoholic/non-alcoholic is ridiculous.

If you can keep your play time from interfering with your serious time, then you are managing your hedonism properly.


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Am I an Alcoholic? [Re: Rahz]
    #7582573 - 10/31/07 10:23 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Mental dependence

Psychological (mental) dependence is a propaganda term created to pathologize certain perfectly reasonable desires.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Am I an Alcoholic? [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #7582587 - 10/31/07 10:29 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

The problem isn't so much defining abuse, as it is trying to hold each individual to the same standard. This is why I stated it was my opinion, and I'll stick by it.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Am I an Alcoholic? [Re: Diploid]
    #7582601 - 10/31/07 10:35 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Psychological dependence is the association between not having fun, and the lack of alcohol being the cause. It makes a person much more likely to drink. :shrug:

It's an illusion of course, but the association gets made. It is what it is.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Re: Am I an Alcoholic? [Re: Rahz]
    #7582610 - 10/31/07 10:39 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

How can each individual be held to the same standard? Wouldn't that stop thier being an individual? There is no magic line to be drawn between alcoholics and non-alcoholics as each person is different and responds uniquely to various lifestyle choices. I can't drink that much because it fucks me up too much, the same as I can't smoke weed more than once in awhile no matter how much I wish I could smoke more. I'm currently making the point of drinking more frequently, if that makes any sense at all, because one of my biggest addictions is to sitting around on the internet pitying myself for being too lethargic to have a social life. It's silly, and going out and having a couple drinks at least once a week and talking to more people is a solution that needs to happen right about now. That's me. Others really need to learn how to take it easy and stay home and take care of themselves. We all have our own struggles. :shrug:


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Am I an Alcoholic? [Re: Rahz]
    #7582637 - 10/31/07 10:53 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

By that definition, surfing and jet skiing are psychologically addicting.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: Am I an Alcoholic? [Re: Diploid]
    #7582641 - 10/31/07 10:58 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

it is to the members of Jet Skiiers anonymous.


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Am I an Alcoholic? [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7582667 - 10/31/07 11:17 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

>>>>How can each individual be held to the same standard?

I agree, they can't be and shouldn't be, but that doesn't mean self abuse doesn't exist. The problem I spoke of in defining abuse is that there isn't a standard. Again, I was giving an opinion based on what I read. Indicators suggest to me there might be a problem. If it had been worded differently, I might give a different opinion.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Am I an Alcoholic? [Re: Diploid]
    #7582668 - 10/31/07 11:18 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Absolutely.

Though it would be rare to have someone make a post about it.

"On nights where I don't drink, and I'm over with my friends, it's alright--but I feel like it could be better if I were jet skiing.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


Edited by Rahz (10/31/07 11:20 PM)


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Am I an Alcoholic? [Re: Rahz]
    #7582669 - 10/31/07 11:20 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Well, I guess I need help then! :scrambled:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: Am I an Alcoholic? [Re: Diploid]
    #7582694 - 10/31/07 11:36 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
By that definition, surfing and jet skiing are psychologically addicting.




:lol:I don't know about you man, but if I'm not on a jet ski, I'm not having a good time. Do I have a problem?


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Offlineevolprim
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Re: Am I an Alcoholic? [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7582805 - 11/01/07 01:28 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

lol dont think you are an alcoholic man. i drink pretty infrequently but you sound like most of my friends, and i wouldnt consider any of them alcoholics. also these people are making a good point about there not being a standard for alcoholism and the social definition of such things. the fact is society plays a big role on everything, and you need to put all that shit aside unless you are just looking for a title (alcoholic, non alcoholic). if you have a problem with alcohol you will know it, and if not then you are just overthinking it. based on what you wrote id say you are an average college drinker.


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OfflineAnarchoTrip
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Re: Am I an Alcoholic? [Re: evolprim]
    #7584967 - 11/01/07 05:45 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Thanks for all of the responses. I've been running the same kind of thoughts. As I said, some friends of mine have been entertaining this discussion, here's a few of their ideas: 1. you're an alcoholic if you continue drinking as much as I currently am once I've graduated from college. It's just the act of graduating that seperates it being okay to binge-drink and not being okay. I think this idea is ridiculous, by the way, IMO.

I like the hypothetical of the deserted island, and bottles of wine magically showing up on the beach. I don't think it'd be a problem. We define alcoholics (or substance abusers, etc.) in comparison to the sober community. I think this is ridiculous--society should never depict what is acceptable or not (and considering this is a forum about psychedelic drugs, I believe most of you would agree with that).

I'm agreeing mostly with the idea that, as long as my drinking doesn't interfer with my 'goals', then it's okay. While I'm this young and things are relatively easy for me, I can get away with drinking two bottles of wine and taking a couple shots thursday evening, passing out, and waking up at 9:30 to go to my chemistry class, reeking of cigarettes and body odors, and following along half-way hungover, half-way still drunk in class. When I'm thirty, with a "career" that I need to be responsible in (I want to be a teacher... I can't show up reeking like cigarettes and half-hungover).. then this type of behaviour will not be acceptable.

I think this is a good way to describe alcoholism. As long as it doesn't present a problem, then it's "okay" or "acceptable."

Another thought, however, is mine about how I feel sober nights are 'boring' or they could be better if I were to drink a little (or a lot). Is this mentality wrong? It makes me more socially-less-awkward, i get relaxed and more friendly (i've never had an angry-drunk episode), and, well... let's be honest... it's fun! Where's the problem in this psychology?

Thanks for the feedback.


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: Am I an Alcoholic? [Re: AnarchoTrip]
    #7585086 - 11/01/07 06:18 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Well, it's undeniably true that alcohol makes people less inhibited and less socially awkward. I'm normally on the quieter, calmer side, but a few drinks (when I am in the mood for them) usually make me pretty chatty and forward. I really enjoy being like this. I really don't enjoy hangovers and the depression and anxiety that come with them. This is a big reason I tend to drink less frequently than I otherwise might.

I guess you might wanna ask yourself if drinking is a bandaid for a problem you are avoiding facing (social awkwardness,) or if you are trying to work on it in a more authentic way. There's nothing wrong with having some drinks and enjoying the dissolving of inhibitions. The problem is always how much it affects your life and the people you care about. You sound like you drink the same way a number of my friends and ex-partners drink. It seems like a pretty common thing for young people to binge drink, and I don't think it's necessarily a problem if you pay attention to how it effects you and don't make excuses to justify drinking when it's causing problems in your life. Just remember that your body isn't gonna support that kind of alcohol consumption forever, so take care of your liver! I recommend milk thistle tincture. Maybe a regular cleanse with dandelion, burdock, nettles, red clover, etc. as a tea.

** edit: and maybe make a point to go out and do things that are fun without liquor. Go to a show and don't have anything to drink. At least try to have a lower quantity of drinks. 2 bottles of wine and a couple shots on a thursday night seems a little over the top when you've gotta wake up at 9:30. This is the sort of thing that is easy enough to justify if it's infrequent and a special occasion, but if you are frequently drunk in class you are probably right to be questioning yourself.


Edited by NiamhNyx (11/01/07 06:54 PM)


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Am I an Alcoholic? [Re: AnarchoTrip]
    #7585157 - 11/01/07 06:45 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I was an alcoholic for about 15 years, and I would say that you are right on track.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Am I an Alcoholic? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #7585175 - 11/01/07 06:48 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Am I an Alcoholic? [Re: Icelander]
    #7585180 - 11/01/07 06:49 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Damn straight!


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Am I an Alcoholic? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #7585209 - 11/01/07 07:00 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

It's almost corny how many people bullshit themselves about alcoholism. When you're young you tell yourself some bullshit about quiting before it becomes a real problem in later life,:monkeydance:. This is one of  the most common types of human  delusional thinking.

Sure I can quit and I will.... later.:rofl2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineAnarchoTrip
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Re: Am I an Alcoholic? [Re: Icelander]
    #7585278 - 11/01/07 07:21 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I still don't understand how thinking that a night could be a lot more enjoyable with a little bit to drink is wrong. What seperates alcohol and, say, video games, marijuana, sex, movies?

I'm not drinking to put a bandaid on my problems. I don't really think I have many problems at all--I'm very lucky in that life's been relatively easy and comfortable for me. I enjoy drinking because it makes any occasion slightly more interesting; conversations seem much more involved (okay, I'm not talking about 4am completely-wasted sloppy conversations), people seem more friendly and comfortable.

So how does frequency cause a problem? I'm not sure it's a matter of frequency, but rather, situation. Would it be a problem if my 75-year-old grandparents, both retired and financially capable (and let's say for argument's sake health isn't a factor), decided to drink every night? I don't think so...?

So then it's a matter of situation. no, it's not acceptable to go to a meeting drunk, but isn't it acceptable to drink after class/work and when I'm not responsible for my daughter that night? I think it's more of a situational thing.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Am I an Alcoholic? [Re: AnarchoTrip]
    #7585294 - 11/01/07 07:27 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

What seperates alcohol and, say, video games, marijuana, sex, movies?




Nothing until your enjoyment of these activities becomes chronic and throws your life out of balance. Daily or near daily use is not what I personally consider moderate, but that is just me. I started drinking for fun, but later found myself treating myself for anger and depression with alcohol....things change when your use becomes frequent. I still enjoy a drink now and again, but my days of daily use are gone.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Am I an Alcoholic? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #7585315 - 11/01/07 07:32 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Nothing until your enjoyment of these activities becomes chronic and throws your life out of balance.

Exactly. If you're happy with your life and your substance usage, it's all good.

If not, it's not.

It's simple.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: Am I an Alcoholic? [Re: AnarchoTrip]
    #7585450 - 11/01/07 08:14 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

AnarchoTrip said:

So how does frequency cause a problem? I'm not sure it's a matter of frequency, but rather, situation. Would it be a problem if my 75-year-old grandparents, both retired and financially capable (and let's say for argument's sake health isn't a factor), decided to drink every night? I don't think so...?






Well, if your grandparents got sloppy 4 am wasted every night it probably would be a problem, especially at thier age. They'd fall apart! There's a difference between one or two classes of wine a night and a couple bottles. Also, as far as social stigmatization goes, old people who drink a lot are usually looked down upon more than young people who do the same.

Like I said before, if you want to test your level of dependence, take a couple weeks off drinking. No liquor for two weeks. It's a worthwhile challenge and it may answer your question.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Am I an Alcoholic? [Re: AnarchoTrip]
    #7585573 - 11/01/07 08:51 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Are you looking for a clinical diagnosis or a series of opinions?


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OfflineAnarchoTrip
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Re: Am I an Alcoholic? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #7585590 - 11/01/07 08:56 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

series of opinions. i don't really care about a diagnosis here.

i'm more interested in how we define things such as alcoholism and substance abuse. i'm more interested in how society has invented these terms and whether they're as terrible as we make them up to be.

or maybe i'm just rationalizing my serious problem(?)


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Am I an Alcoholic? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #7585608 - 11/01/07 09:02 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Are you looking for a clinical diagnosis

I don't think an internet thread is sufficient for a clinical diagnosis of anything at all. But what do I know... :shrug:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: Am I an Alcoholic? [Re: AnarchoTrip]
    #7585656 - 11/01/07 09:17 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

AnarchoTrip said:
series of opinions. i don't really care about a diagnosis here.

i'm more interested in how we define things such as alcoholism and substance abuse. i'm more interested in how society has invented these terms and whether they're as terrible as we make them up to be.

or maybe i'm just rationalizing my serious problem(?)




It's possible that there is truth in both of these.


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Am I an Alcoholic? [Re: AnarchoTrip]
    #7585925 - 11/01/07 10:33 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

>>>>I still don't understand how thinking that a night could be a lot more enjoyable with a little bit to drink is wrong.

"little bit" eh? I'll be the bad guy, just keep in mind I'm only trying to be helpful, not judgmental. If you agree with nothing I say, disregard it. The thing with alcohol is that it isn't the chemical itself, unless you're reaching poison levels, which most people don't. Moderate drinking actually extends the average lifespan. Stress relief is a good thing. But alcohol is a non-nutritious substance, and is diuretic which flushes nutrients out of the system. Even fresh fruit juice and vodka will result in a net loss.

For me, the two issues are self abuse, and psychological dependency. If a person doesn't believe in such things, thoughtful observation can be neglected IMO. It's something to keep in mind, which seems to be what you're doing.


--------------------
rahz

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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Am I an Alcoholic? [Re: AnarchoTrip]
    #7585968 - 11/01/07 10:41 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

>>>>i'm more interested in how society has invented these terms and whether they're as terrible as we make them up to be.

Wikipedia has a good article under "alcoholism" that delves into the clinical aspects society has defined. There's also an article at Wikipedia under "Effects of alcohol on the body" that goes into the short-term effects of alcohol (not all bad), and has links to articles focused on the long term effects of alcohol.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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InvisibleTrueBrode
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Re: Am I an Alcoholic? [Re: Rahz]
    #7586170 - 11/01/07 11:54 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Contrary to some here dismissing psychological definitions, I am going to stick with them simply because from personal experience, I believe they work with alcoholism. I also think you definitely demonstrate the early symptoms, not that that necessarily demands they lead to a larger problem in the future. You are young where they may disappear with age.

During my college career I had one semester during which I drank four nights a week (monday- thursday at about 4-7 drinks a night because I did not have any tolerance yet). I was 21 too, so I could buy as much as I wanted. But, this is an early warning sign that the propensity for a larger dependence exists.

You already habitually (key classification) abuse alcohol; and the fact that certain events are currently compelling you to avoid drinking is a tell-tale sign to me. Why? Because I was the same way. But, just wait until you start to realize you can accomplish the same daily activities drunk off your ass-- attending classes still lit in the morning huh??? Yep, that sounds just like me (and still making near a 4.0).

Don't get me wrong, Winston Churchill drank multiple bottles of liquor and wine a day, and lived a fairly accomplished, controlled and successful life. But, I really do believe now that he was an exception to alcoholism.

I wholeheartedly suggest you give up alcohol for at least two-three months. Since most clinical diagnosies such as depression cannot be separated from alcohol withdrawal, you need this period of sobriety to assess why you are compelled to drink. If at the two month mark you start feeling angry, depressed, bored etc. and drink to alleviate that mental state, then you may say with more certainty whether you are an alcoholic, or self-medicating a psychological disorder with alcohol.

In sum, the point I think is key here is that you are able to balance near daily drinking with work/school/family. You demonstrate signs of regimentation that remind me of myself in retrospect. The problem arises when school ends, and that compulsion not to drink vanishes. What about when you realize you can get away with drinking at work? Let us just say someone I know very well currently is an alcoholic, and you would not believe how much he/she can accomplish still under a daily influence. He/she usually seems like the most sober and responsible one out of a group.

I do not mean to get preachy. Hell, if you want to drink yourself out of existence, many have done it before, and contributed a lot doing it. But, this is not always the case. Ron "Pigpen" McKeirnan, Raul Seixas, Truman Capote etc. are probably exceptions to the rule. The other 80% are drinking from a brown paper bag on the street corner, babble incoherently, and- I believe- are honestly missing out on the greatest fruit of existence: mental growth.


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: Am I an Alcoholic? [Re: TrueBrode]
    #7586274 - 11/02/07 12:35 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Thre are many highly functioning alcoholics. My archaeology professor for example. The man talked about beer every chance he got - several times each class. He sucessfully kept it out of his professional life and alotted drinking to appropriate times and seems to be doing just fine. An old friend's dad was a highschool principle and an alcoholic. He drank a lot of wine, but he managed to be good at his job and be a pretty good father to boot. I'm not encouraging alcoholism and I would certainly encourage anyone with a problem to think about toning it down or quitting altogether, but I'm just pointing out that it is possible to be a highly functioning alcoholic. My father was the kind of alcoholic that ended up living in the ghetto for his drinking, after my parents split up (over the issue of alcohol) when I was 4 months old. He hasn't had a drop to drink in 22 years and he's doing quite well for himself these days. If you're a drinker like my father, you should definitly stop now and never look back. But if you're a drinker like a lot of other people you might have a bit of wiggle room. You'll have to make that call yourself.


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Re: Am I an Alcoholic? [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7586615 - 11/02/07 05:10 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

That was how I functioned. I was working a full time job and raising a family while consuming 5 cases of beer a week. I was very agreeable and happy seeming while drunk and a pissed off SOB while sober. This made the drinking seem acceptable to others...I was a monster to deal with sober.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Re: Am I an Alcoholic? [Re: AnarchoTrip]
    #7587480 - 11/02/07 11:46 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I still don't understand how thinking that a night could be a lot more enjoyable with a little bit to drink is wrong. What seperates alcohol and, say, video games, marijuana, sex, movies?


Never said that.

I don't really think I have many problems at all




I don't really believe this. So why did you post this silly topic if you were not at all concerned here? I'm getting mixed messages. Usually mixed messages appear because someone is not being honest.

(and let's say for argument's sake health isn't a factor),

Lets just say for arguments sake that nothing that can harm you is a factor. That works even better.

So then it's a matter of situation.


And of course you find yourself in that "situation" quite often. Wow what a funny coincidence.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineAmber_Glow
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Re: Am I an Alcoholic? [Re: AnarchoTrip]
    #7588436 - 11/02/07 04:06 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Hi Anarcho!  You sound a lot like me.  I am a 23 year old college student majoring in philosophy!  Although my GPA is a little higher at 3.7! :P  Are you in the Northeast?

I also have gone through periods of mild addiction.  I have always been able to function fine and get by.  At one point I also saw myself as not addicted.  Addiction is not nonaddict vs. addict, it is not a black and white classification but it is a range of degree.

By the sound of things you sound to have an addiction to some degree.  I have gone through multiple addictions and/or are going through them.  You should at least be honest with yourself and realize you are involved in addictive patterned behavior.  Addiction does not necessarily need to be ruining your life, but if its controlling your life in some way, or influencing your decisions than I would say yes, you are an addict.  Do you sometimes feel you need to drink to have fun?  Would the night be more fun with a couple drinks?  Would it seem a waste of a night to not drink?  Would your fun be spoiled if there were no alcohol available?  Etc.

At one point I paired my alcohol addiction with a cocaine addiction.  Having to deal with an even more powerful addiction like cocaine really gave me some insight into the nature of addiction.  So pick up a cocaine habit if you really want to see addiction in action!  :wink:

Anywho just be honest with yourself.  "I have, at least, a mild alcohol addiction".  This doesn't mean you even have to stop, but you should at least be aware of what is going on, and not deceiving yourself.


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OfflineAnarchoTrip
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Re: Am I an Alcoholic? [Re: Amber_Glow]
    #7588558 - 11/02/07 04:36 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I have an addiction; to clarify things.

But where's the problem in that? I don't mean to sound like I'm rationalizing my way out of my problems, but I feel like people stigmatize addictive substances (alcohol, cigarettes, other drugs) too readily.

This may be a bit of a stretch, but compare a "bad" addiction (booze) to an "unrecognized" addiction (tv, grades, cars, etc.) Yeah, it's not the best analogy, but I feel like it gets my point across that we're all addicted to SOMETHING. I agree, the "problem" arises once these addictions start causing problems at work, school, relationships, whatever. If someone is ruining themselves financially because they NEED the next season of the hottest TV series on DVD (again, stretching the analogy) then it's a problem. my family has completely destroyed their socialness with each other because they're all 'addicted' to the television.

It is a matter of "situation" in the fact that, as long as the drinking is in an appropriate setting and not causing problems, who cares the frequency or the amount? Obviously frequency and quantity contribute to the "situation," but they still have the capability of being "flexible."

Icelander, with my excuse of "(and let's say for argument's sake health isn't a factor)" is because I'm not that concerned about my health. Many people value health--a long life--I value other things. That's why I said to ignore health, because I do. I recognize that the majority of people argue against drinking because of the health issues--I dont.

hope this clarified my argument. Thanks for your input as always.


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Am I an Alcoholic? [Re: AnarchoTrip]
    #7588752 - 11/02/07 05:39 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

But where's the problem in that?

There's no intrinsic problem with that, but there may well be a problem with how it affects you. That you're asking about this at all suggests to me that it's affecting you in a way you don't like.

That's the beginnings of problem, in my book.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Am I an Alcoholic? [Re: Diploid]
    #7589043 - 11/02/07 06:53 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
Are you looking for a clinical diagnosis

I don't think an internet thread is sufficient for a clinical diagnosis of anything at all. But what do I know... :shrug:




You're partly right. I have made diagnoses based on anecdotal evidence supplied by subjects and those close to the subject. However, I did witness several of my high school acquaintances develop cirrhotic livers by the time they were 21 years old. They began drinking at 15 and in 5 years, the weekends had expanded from Friday afternoons to Sunday nights - solidly. After one of them suicided (another story, but one which contributed to my later career in crisis intervention), the others went on the wagon, joined AA, etc. They hadn't had a drink for almost 30 years at our last high school reunion in 2001. They were still alive, had lives and wives, etc.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Am I an Alcoholic? [Re: AnarchoTrip]
    #7589058 - 11/02/07 06:57 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

AnarchoTrip said:
series of opinions. i don't really care about a diagnosis here.





Then you don't want to hear from me. I'm a Master Addictions Counselor (MAC), certified by the National Board for Certified Counselors. I've been working as an addictions counselor since 1982.


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: Am I an Alcoholic? [Re: AnarchoTrip]
    #7589413 - 11/02/07 08:43 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

You may not care about your health when your 19 and in your prime, but when you start looking around and noticing all the people in thier 30's and 40's and 50's that never got over thier party days and are still killing thier livers, they look like shit and it's kind of sad and pathetic. People who maintain that level of substance abuse fall apart. They don't look like rebels anymore, they look like they've destroyed themselves and have nothing to live for anymore. Sure you look like a badass with a cigarette in your hand and the ability to hold extreme amounts of booze right now, but it just isn't that impressive when you're 40.

But you're going to do what you're going to do. Enjoy it while you can. You'll probably get bored eventually.


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