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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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you can not petition the lord with prayer
    #7576920 -

wats up guys, im taking a course on kant this semester and he was really against the idea of god being influenced by us at all. he definately did not beleive that through prayer we could alter gods will or gain influence from god. jim morrison uses this as an intro to the soft parade. what do you guys think.


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I'm a traveler of both time and space...

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Re: you can not petition the lord with prayer [Re: LedHead]
    #7576971 -

You Kant petition the Lord with prayer? :rofl2:


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Re: you can not petition the lord with prayer [Re: LedHead]
    #7576976 -

Well, the traditional(Aristotelean) idea of God as the infallible, omnipotent "unmoved mover" certainly doesn't mesh well with the idea of prayer. However, I'm partial to the idea that God needs our participation in order to work, and will in fact listen to the pleas of others. As bizarre as this sounds, it's actually an idea found in the Bible. There are famous cases where both Abraham and Moses, among others, convince God to have mercy on others rather than let his wrath be unleashed. In fact, the name "Israel" itself means "he who struggles with God"(a common Jewish habit). Whether through petition(prayer) or the focused direction of our will(magick), I do believe God can be influenced. We are microcosms of God, and as such are creators in our own right.

I tend to alternate between the idea of God as a personal being, and as an impersonal force that can be tapped into(like in Star Wars). I think both views have some truth in them, and I tend to take the former view when praying, and the latter view when performing magick.


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Re: you can not petition the lord with prayer [Re: LedHead]
    #7577302 -

LedHead said:
wats up guys, im taking a course on kant this semester and he was really against the idea of god being influenced by us at all. he definately did not beleive that through prayer we could alter gods will or gain influence from god.  jim morrison uses this as an intro to the soft parade.  what do you guys think.


I think that song rocks. When he screams out YOU CANNOT PETITION THE LORD WITH PRAYER, I get lovely little chills up me spine.:hellfire:


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: you can not petition the lord with prayer [Re: Silversoul]
    #7577319 -

If God "needs" our participation then he must be one of those namby pamby lesser gods.

And yes it is a bizarre idea even if it is found in a comic book.


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: you can not petition the lord with prayer [Re: LedHead]
    #7577369 -

I was just listening to that album, and when that part arrived for some reason I thought about it for quite a while. Talk about a strange synchronization.. Coincidence? No.. Aliens? Yes.

Anyway, the idea seems ridiculous, as I imagine Morrison was attempting to convey it. To me it sounds like a way to keep people tame. "Sure, you can disagree with God and whatnot, just wrap it up in a nice little prayer for him." It's like trying to affect the nature of the government by sending the president a letter of displeasure wrapped up in $100 bills.


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From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.

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Re: you can not petition the lord with prayer [Re: elbisivni]
    #7577384 -

He'd definitely keep the C notes...


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“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”

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Re: you can not petition the lord with prayer [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7577494 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
You Kant petition the Lord with prayer? :rofl2:


Aaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahaha


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Ishmael
http://www.ishmael.org

Ron Paul 2008!
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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