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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Cultivation
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Re: Using Gravity for CO2 Removal [Re: ThePyschonaut52]
    #7546175 -

i know this is SLIGHTLY off topic
and you guys are all busy fighting like special ed kids (jk)
but RR, i watched your vid on how to make the shotgun fruiting chamber and i must say i was a little confused

how the hell do you put WET perlite in that and not make a huge mess? :crazy2:
does the water not drain out of the bottom holes? how do you add more water to it? do you have to take all of your cakes out and rehydrate seperately? or do you just mist it?


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Re: Using Gravity for CO2 Removal [Re: anarchOi]
    #7546252 -

you gotta let the perlite drain for a few minutes.

I myself dump the perlite in a bucket and soak it for a few minutes, then I put it in colanders and let it drain for 15 minutes


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"In god we trust..."


-I guess we're screwed.

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Re: Using Gravity for CO2 Removal [Re: ThePyschonaut52]
    #7546277 -

i usually just pour in a good 4-5 inches of mostly dry perlite and then pour water into the corners until puddles form at the bottom >.>
and i have filter holes just above the perlite

i suppose i'm underestimating perlite's ablility to absorb water
how long does your perlite last in the FC? with all those holes and no water reserves


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Edited by anarchOi (10/22/07 10:29 AM)

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Re: Using Gravity for CO2 Removal [Re: ThePyschonaut52]
    #7546305 -

Quote:
how the hell do you put WET perlite in that and not make a huge mess?



Quote:
i suppose i'm underestimating perlite's ablility to absorb water



Perlite doesn't absorb water.


The video plainly shows me holding the collander in the air so you can see the water drain out of it prior to adding to the terrarium. You don't need to add more moisture to the perlite during the fruiting cycle. Between cycles, you can add water if necessary.

Nobody is fighting. I had to set the record straight on those who would call me out by name to trash my work without understanding the science or even bothering to read the posts, where the issue of CO2 removal from terrariums has been covered in detail. You can bet your last dollar that if I advise on something, it's based on many years of experience and literally thousands of grows on all sorts of substrates, with dozens of species. I don't make this shit up. Good luck to all.
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison

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Re: Using Gravity for CO2 Removal [Re: anarchOi]
    #7546319 -

Perlite doesn't really absorb water. It has a porous surface that holds onto water and allows it to evaporate. If you use well drained perlite you shouldn't have a wet mess. Any standing water at the bottom of your chamber creates a stagnate environment below the waters surface which allows for contams to breed. Perlite that is well drained has a high evaporation rate, thus creating better humidity and less contam prone process.


--------------------
  "For best results, learn to work with nature rather than against it. Mycelium has an amazing ability to cope with less than optimal conditions, and will often fruit when a grower does everything wrong. However, do everything right and watch your performance go through the roof." RR


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Re: Using Gravity for CO2 Removal [Re: ThePyschonaut52]
    #7546636 -

Somebody needs a nap!

Well I guess it's settled, only Roger's ways work, nobody else's!

We all just better buy his DVD before he gets too mad at us for not knowing everything like he does!

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Re: Using Gravity for CO2 Removal [Re: ThePyschonaut52]
    #7546666 -

So, if I understand correctly, punching holes in the sides creates enough FAE that CO2 will not accumulate around the pins, but still fanning is needed.

If CO2 never builds up, then why fan?

If the CO2 level is only slightly above ambient, then FAE is not needed to remove CO2, only to stimulate pinning?

But if the CO2 exhaled by the myc is carried away by currents, isn't that FAE without fanning?

Since CO2 will not build up much higher than a room, why do you fan?

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Re: Using Gravity for CO2 Removal [Re: Captain Cubensis]
    #7546721 -

we fan to keep molds at bay.
if the air is constantly moving, the mold spores cannot land and
germinate.
they keep getting kicked around, never getting the chance to
grow.

reference my substrate bag grows to see that mushrooms grow
great, really great in high co2 concentrations with no FAE.
but only if the environment is protected from molds.
FAE is NOT NEEDED for mushrooms to grow. period.

substrate bags are sealed with a filter patch, not allowing any
molds to get in.
if a substrate is exposed to the air, it has to have high FAE to
keep molds away.

that's the reason for fanning.
molds cannot thrive in fresh, turbulent, moving air.
mushrooms can certainly thrive in fresh, turbulent, moving air.


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Re: Using Gravity for CO2 Removal [Re: Captain Cubensis]
    #7546747 -

CO2 will build up in a terrarium, whether or not holes are drilled into all six sides. The levels will be lower than they would be without holes drilled and/or fanning regularly, but will still be above normal ambient.

With oyster mushrooms and lion's mane to name two species that are very CO2 intolerant, you need to fan a few times per day, even when using my terrarium design.

The point above, is that even with 100 holes in the floor of the fruiting chamber/terrarium, CO2 levels will still be elevated. The holes help, but don't make for maintenance free fruiting. In other words, gravity won't 'drain' the CO2. I hope this clears up any lingering confusion.

In addition, CO2 is not the only reason we provide air exchange. The other important reason is that contaminants prefer stale air, while mushroom mycelium prefers fresh, moving air. Good luck to all.
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison

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Re: Using Gravity for CO2 Removal [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7546772 -

to add to my comment:

not all mushrooms are tolerant to high co2 levels.
as stated above, there are several species that demand fresh
air to fruit. my point is that FAE is not always needed.
that molds are half of the reason for fanning.

everything RR said is correct. so combine our comments for a
full and complete answer.


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Re: Using Gravity for CO2 Removal [Re: monstermitch]
    #7546800 -

monstermitch said:
we fan to keep molds at bay.
if the air is constantly moving, the mold spores cannot land and
germinate.
they keep getting kicked around, never getting the chance to
grow.

reference my substrate bag grows to see that mushrooms grow
great, really great in high co2 concentrations with no FAE.
but only if the environment is protected from molds.
FAE is NOT NEEDED for mushrooms to grow. period.

substrate bags are sealed with a filter patch, not allowing any
molds to get in.
if a substrate is exposed to the air, it has to have high FAE to
keep molds away.

that's the reason for fanning.
molds cannot thrive in fresh, turbulent, moving air.
mushrooms can certainly thrive in fresh, turbulent, moving air.


Now that was an explanation people can understand.

Last year my foaf grow out one of his bins, using BRF cakes, tight seal, ABSOLUTELY ZERO FAE, none.

That tub grew fantastic fruits with not one single fanning session or even opening the lid ONCE.

But if I posted this, wow, people would call me retarded!

If FAE is not needed, then why expose the casing to air borne contams?

Why not just use sealed FCs? Basically, that's what a bag is right?

So if my foaf put filter tape over his holes in the FC, he would not need to fan, right?

Since it would now become a rigid bag in the shape of a rectangle.

But then why did all those peeps tell me I couldn't place directly in the FC.

Trouble is, there are about 10 people on here that do not agree, yet they are all 100% right in their minds.

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Re: Using Gravity for CO2 Removal [Re: Captain Cubensis]
    #7546846 -

well, let me be a bit more specific please.

filter patch bags have a filter patch.
they allow for gas exchange... and a limited amount of air exchange.

my mushrooms comment was far too general.
cubensis (probably the easiest mushroom in the world to grow)
do not need lots of FAE to grow. actually, some cubensis do,
but some do not. the very limited FAE they get via the filter patch
is enough for many strains.

so a unique situation occurs having cubes in filter patch bags.

with the majority of cubes, and with most of the rest of the mushroom
species FAE is needed for fruiting.

so I was a bit wrong with the general statement I made.
I was just trying to emphasize the point of fanning for mold
prevention.



so let me sum this up quite simply:

a very few strains of cubensis (using strain in it's correct definition)
can grow with very limited FAE provisioins, i.e. a filter patch.

all other strains of cubensis, and most all other mushrooms period
do need FAE to grow properly, just like in the wild.

sorry about that.

Captain Cubensis said:
Why not just use sealed FCs? Basically, that's what a bag is right?

So if my foaf put filter tape over his holes in the FC, he would not need to fan, right?



filter patch bags work for some cubes because the air is sterile
to begin with inside.
a fruiting chamber will never have sterile air, because you're not
ever going to pressure cook a fruting chamber and seal it shut.

so the air to start with is full of mold and such, making it madatory
to use FAE to fight it.

once a filter patch bag is opened, it's prone to mold contamination,
just like any other substrate is.


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Re: Using Gravity for CO2 Removal [Re: monstermitch]
    #7546881 -

That was great, thanks Mitch! You have explained a lot of things with few words, good job, I truly appreciate this, so thanks.

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Re: Using Gravity for CO2 Removal [Re: Captain Cubensis]
    #7546908 -

I'm trying...

I'd be delighted to see you apply some of this and pull of
a great grow!!


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Re: Using Gravity for CO2 Removal [Re: Captain Cubensis]
    #7546917 -

Captain Cubensis said:
So, if I understand correctly, punching holes in the sides creates enough FAE that CO2 will not accumulate around the pins, but still fanning is needed.

If CO2 never builds up, then why fan?


That is because the purpose of the holes in the terrarium is to create and maintain the relative humidity through convection (heat-rising) from the bottom, and being pulled through the perlite - thus humidified - and then into the chamber. Drier, less humid air rises out of the top and sides of the terrarium through the same process.

The passive air exchange provided through this means is still far better than the (partially) seal environments you find in other terrariums and monotubs but is still not completely adequate as an automated solution so hand fanning is still required to supplement the exchange of fresh air.


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:justdontknow: Don't mistake my tone for a "matter-of-fact" attitude.  I'm just presenting what I believe to be correct, until I'm corrected...

- How Myco-Curious Prepares Coir & Compost Substrates
- How Myco-Curious Builds A Bulk Humidifier
- How Myco-Curious Builds An Automated Greenhouse
------------------------------------
figgusfiddus said:
Keep in mind that inoculating or whatever in front of a flow hood won't help your bad substrate, your bad inoculant, your bad sterile procedure, etc. etc. etc. It's not a +3 flowhood of magic, it's just a tool.

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Re: Using Gravity for CO2 Removal [Re: Captain Cubensis]
    #7546941 -

+1 on the obvious - but understated - reasons regarding contaminates liking "stale air". To put a finer point on it, most types of fungi prefer a CO2 richer environment in their vegetative stage... but we attempting to get our mycelium to leave the vegetative stage and enter their fruiting stage so changing the air as frequently as possible is really serving a dual purpose... To further encourage the fruiting phase of the cultured mycelium in question as well as discourage the germination and colonization of stray/contaminate spores that may work their way into the chamber...

For cubensis in particular, the differences between the two is almost non-existent but move into other species such as those listed above and you'll need to be able to change the air entirely several times an hour for them to fruit properly. Even more complicated species such as morels have radically different parameters and have requirements such as "fresh, cold rains" needing to be simulated several times a day for proper fruiting.

---
Bottom line, you cannot have too much FAE in your environment provided it's not interfering with your ability to maintain the humidity requirements as well...


--------------------
:justdontknow: Don't mistake my tone for a "matter-of-fact" attitude.  I'm just presenting what I believe to be correct, until I'm corrected...

- How Myco-Curious Prepares Coir & Compost Substrates
- How Myco-Curious Builds A Bulk Humidifier
- How Myco-Curious Builds An Automated Greenhouse
------------------------------------
figgusfiddus said:
Keep in mind that inoculating or whatever in front of a flow hood won't help your bad substrate, your bad inoculant, your bad sterile procedure, etc. etc. etc. It's not a +3 flowhood of magic, it's just a tool.

Edited by mycocurious (10/22/07 01:41 PM)

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Re: Using Gravity for CO2 Removal [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7547497 -

Hell yes. I was starting to doze off with this thread, but RR kicked it right back into gear!


--------------------
:firefox: If God is inside us like some people say, He'd better like burritos 'cause that's what he's getting. :firefox:

I ♥ :skittles:

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Re: Using Gravity for CO2 Removal [Re: BanjoMojo]
    #7547644 -

i don't mean offense RR

just asking questions x_X


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Re: Using Gravity for CO2 Removal [Re: Psilocin Dreams]
    #7564969 -

Psilocin Dreams said:
The whole "foaf" thing won't save you in court and looks silly, otherwise this sounds reasonable.


That's what I think every time some says "A friend of mine..."
Like we don't know it's BS.:crazy2:

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