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Offlineticktock
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CO2 question.
    #3505072 - 12/15/04 07:29 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

I'm not sure if this is in the right forum. Sorry if I made the wrong choice.

There seems to be a general agreement here that CO2 will collect in the bottom of your fruiting chamber, jar, etc because it's heavier than the rest of the air. If that's true then;

Why isn't the lowest part of the atmosphere CO2?
or
Why don't I have an inch or 2 of CO2 near the floor of my basement?
or
Why doesn't the stuff collect in deep valleys, gorges, or mines?

Again, if this is the wrong forum, tell me and I'll delete it. There's just something about this belief that doesn't ring true, and I'd like to understand where I've gone wrong. Thanks.


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OfflineCrabbyAss
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Re: CO2 question. [Re: ticktock]
    #3505190 - 12/15/04 07:43 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Co2 would collect and layer twords the bottom if there werent such factors as wind, and movement. Inside a jar, or airtight box, the atmosphere would layer


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Offlineticktock
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Re: CO2 question. [Re: CrabbyAss]
    #3506064 - 12/15/04 10:12 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

CrabbyAss said:
Co2 would collect and layer twords the bottom if there werent such factors as wind, and movement. Inside a jar, or airtight box, the atmosphere would layer




That's what some people here assume, but I do not believe it to be true. No disrespect intended, CrabbyAss.

Common industrial gasses are produced by compressing and cooling air.
The temperature of the liquid is then raised slowly and each gas boils off at it's own temperature. Oxygen, nitrogen, carbon dioxide, neon, argon, hydrogen, etc all take a place in line. Not in that order.

Wouldn't it be easier to just put some air in a container with no drafts and take the heaviest gasses from the bottom? But it doesn't work that way, and that's my point. If you turned off the ventilation of the Empire State building, carbon dioxide would not collect at the first floor. I have no reason to believe that it will collect at the bottom of a fruiting chamber either.

This is not terribly important, and I don't want to tick anyone off. Just wondering.


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OfflineKaptKid
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Re: CO2 question. [Re: ticktock]
    #3506231 - 12/15/04 10:38 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

what is your fruiting chamber?


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OfflineCrabbyAss
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Re: CO2 question. [Re: KaptKid]
    #3506374 - 12/15/04 11:08 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Im not too keen on glass making, but howstuffworks.com states carbon dioxide will collect at the bottom of a still air container. Heres the quote

Carbon dioxide is heavier than air and it can concentrate in low areas or in enclosed spaces (like a car or a room where dry ice is sublimating). Normal air is 78% Nitrogen, 21% Oxygen and only 0.035% Carbon Dioxide. If the concentration of carbon dioxide in the air rises above 5%, carbon dioxide can become toxic.


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Offlineticktock
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Re: CO2 question. [Re: CrabbyAss]
    #3507522 - 12/16/04 06:15 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Thanks Crabby. I stand corrected. You guys were right, of course.


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Offlinehyphae
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Re: CO2 question. [Re: ticktock]
    #3508504 - 12/16/04 01:38 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

CO2 can and does collect in mines and can collect in your basement if the CO2 source is not vented properly. In the atmosphere there is only 300-350 PPM that occurs natually FYI.


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Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
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OfflineAuroricDistortions
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Re: CO2 question. [Re: hyphae]
    #3509040 - 12/16/04 04:17 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

And the layers wouldn't have clear separations. Gas molecules have high kinetic energy, so they'll still be mixing with the other gases in a static environment (at STP).


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Offlinegibbard
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Re: CO2 question. [Re: AuroricDistortions]
    #3516919 - 12/18/04 01:02 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

I would think the high humidity in the air would cause the CO2 to be less dense and thus move to the top. If you are really interested in determining it once and for all then look into a CO2, Air, phase diagram find your conditions and use the composition combined with an equation like the blaussius (sp.) which accounts for humidity and you should be able to dtermine the layers based on saturation pressures.


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: CO2 question. [Re: gibbard]
    #3517340 - 12/18/04 04:27 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

>I would think the high humidity in the air would cause the CO2 to be less dense and thus move to the top.

How exactly would high humidity make CO2 less dense?


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Offlinegibbard
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Re: CO2 question. [Re: Anno]
    #3517688 - 12/18/04 06:46 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Its relative density would decrease.


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: CO2 question. [Re: gibbard]
    #3517733 - 12/18/04 06:59 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

CO2 stays CO2. Or?


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Offlineliveby
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Re: CO2 question. [Re: Anno]
    #3517792 - 12/18/04 07:13 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)



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Offlinehyphae
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Re: CO2 question. [Re: Anno]
    #3517834 - 12/18/04 07:30 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Technically it's density would decrease only because of the water density of the lower atmosphere which would contain technically more hydrogen and oxygen than in a lower RH atmosphere at least thats the only way I can see it. Anyway the CO2 will not rise to the top if not driven there by air movement IMO.


--------------------
Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal :wink:
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE

"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: CO2 question. [Re: hyphae]
    #3517865 - 12/18/04 07:50 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

"Technically it's density would decrease only because of the water density of the lower atmosphere which would contain technically more hydrogen and oxygen than in a lower RH atmosphere "

LOL :wink:

Can you translate this?


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Invisibleagar
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Re: CO2 question. [Re: hyphae]
    #3517873 - 12/18/04 07:56 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

I think ANNO is about to explain "clouds" high in the sky & what they are made of. :wink:


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: CO2 question. [Re: agar]
    #3517888 - 12/18/04 08:01 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Hehe...

We had a similar topic before where I explained the clouds and the origin of life :wink:


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Offlinegibbard
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Re: CO2 question. [Re: Anno]
    #3518050 - 12/18/04 09:10 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Atleast we have established how clouds are relevant to mushrooms


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Offlinehyphae
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Re: CO2 question. [Re: Anno]
    #3518315 - 12/18/04 10:34 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Anno said:
"Technically it's density would decrease only because of the water density of the lower atmosphere which would contain technically more hydrogen and oxygen than in a lower RH atmosphere "

LOL :wink:

Can you translate this?



Simply the co2 is diluted with more moisture/water vapor (H2O) at a higher humidity. This would translate into a lower CO2 PPM concentration I'm thinkin I could be wrong of course but I it sounds good to me! :laugh:


--------------------
Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal :wink:
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE

"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"


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Offlineticktock
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Re: CO2 question. [Re: hyphae]
    #3518625 - 12/19/04 12:06 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Soooo...

Kinetic energy knocks things around enough that there is no clear stratification between the CO2 layer and the rest of the chamber contents.

CO2 density may decrease with higher humidity. (ala Anno)

Let's add that most fruiting chambers are heated from the bottom, so convection will be wafting things upward. Also, air pumps are running in many cases. The replacement air has to have many times more volume than the mushrooms are exhaling. (Wrong word, but I'm tired. Transpiring?)

People are putting holes near the bottoms of their chambers to let the CO2 out. Perhaps it doesn't matter where the holes are. Some people have constant air replacement. Some fan once a day, some not at all. We all get mushrooms. Is CO2 something that we all talk and worry about without really understanding?

"When you believe in things that you don't understand,
then you suffer, superstition ain't the way."
Stevie Wonder


Diving for my bunker now, and standing by for incoming


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