Home | Community | Message Board


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Mushroom-Hut Mono Tub Substrate   North Spore Bulk Substrate   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   PhytoExtractum Kratom Powder for Sale   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2  [ show all ]
Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead.
InvisibleCaptain Cubensis
Bleeding HeartLiberal


Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 648
Using Gravity for CO2 Removal
    #7511309 - 10/11/07 11:37 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

My foaf suggests placing your casing trays in your fruiting chamber on a slight angle, so that the heavier CO2 will drain away down the slope contributing to CAE at the micro level.

If you are using cakes, place them on wire mesh, a few inches above your humidifier agent. The CO2 will drop away and flow through holes drilled strategically in the FC.


--------------------
www.groworganic.com
Get 350lbs shipped to your door for only $100!
www.mycosupply.com
Online Organic Rye Berries
www.hydroponics.net/i/200002
The Cyclestat 4P, a great repeat cycle timer made in the USA.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePsilocin Dreams
PerpetuallyContaminated


Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 187
Last seen: 5 years, 7 months
Re: Using Gravity for CO2 Removal [Re: Captain Cubensis]
    #7511313 - 10/11/07 11:38 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

The whole "foaf" thing won't save you in court and looks silly, otherwise this sounds reasonable.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleCaptain Cubensis
Bleeding HeartLiberal


Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 648
Re: Using Gravity for CO2 Removal [Re: Psilocin Dreams]
    #7511319 - 10/11/07 11:40 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Who said anything about court?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePsilocin Dreams
PerpetuallyContaminated


Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 187
Last seen: 5 years, 7 months
Re: Using Gravity for CO2 Removal [Re: Captain Cubensis]
    #7511334 - 10/11/07 11:47 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Captain Cubensis said:
Who said anything about court?




Sorry, I just assumed this was like the people who put disclaimers in their signatures saying that all their posts are fictitious and that they don't actually exist.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinexhooliganx
Munky
Male User Gallery

Registered: 03/09/06
Posts: 900
Loc: reno, nevada
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
Re: Using Gravity for CO2 Removal [Re: Psilocin Dreams]
    #7511422 - 10/12/07 12:28 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

no what he meant was his pet turtle's friend who happens to be an albino corn snake.....

oh yeah that won't work because co2 won't pour off. otherwise all of the co2 would would out weight the O on earth and we'd suffocate


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineThe shroomy 1
Luminous beings surround me
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/27/07
Posts: 5,543
Loc: The Aether
Last seen: 5 months, 5 days
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Using Gravity for CO2 Removal [Re: xhooliganx]
    #7511446 - 10/12/07 12:43 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

xhooliganx said:
no what he meant was his pet turtle's friend who happens to be an albino corn snake.....

oh yeah that won't work because co2 won't pour off.  otherwise all of the co2 would would out weight the O on earth and we'd suffocate




LOL!  I'm glad you said it!!!  :thumbup:


--------------------


AMU Q&A thread.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSkeeblix
Dave Thomas
Male


Registered: 01/28/07
Posts: 1,745
Loc: Wendy's
Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
Re: Using Gravity for CO2 Removal [Re: The shroomy 1]
    #7511488 - 10/12/07 01:28 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

What you guys and RR especially seem to neglect in your thought process is that the Earth has huge massive air currents to keep everything balanced out. Convection is constantly churning the air around us, pretty much evenly distributing the CO2 that occurs in the atmosphere all around.

CO2 IS heavier than air, and without any kind of air current to keep it from sinking, it will. An FC is generally a fairly still-air environment, meaning the CO2 is dispersed very little thoughout the air inside the chamber. I'm sure if you had some kind of gas composite analyzer to take a sample of the air lower in the FC, it would more than likely read at least marginally higher levels of CO2 near the bottom.


--------------------
This post approved by:


Premedman1 said:
:lol: I just shat my pants.


Edited by Skeeblix (10/12/07 01:29 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePhreakr
Exploration of Space


Registered: 07/23/07
Posts: 125
Last seen: 5 months, 8 days
Re: Using Gravity for CO2 Removal [Re: Skeeblix]
    #7511511 - 10/12/07 01:48 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

the ammount of air movement in a FC versus it's size, is nowhere near as small as typhoons and hurricanes in our earth's atmosphere. if you just leave your FC to do it's thing without any FAE hoping the co2 would "drain" off will provide much smaller yields then a good FAE system. And as for the Signiture thingy (like mine) why on earth would i want to say "All my posts arn't as bad as they seem, i'm really a crack and LSD dealer, they're the big bucks drugs, arrest me fuckers"... that's just stupid... but come to think about it, so is saying my posts are works of fiction. But then again, it was fact that the earth was FLAT a century or 2 ago... so who knows... maybe these posts are fiction, or maybe ive just had too much weed and am babbling on, haha... but yea, dont do the whole CO2 draining off thing.


--------------------


I'm After some Panaeolus Cyanescens, PM me to trade.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleCaptain Cubensis
Bleeding HeartLiberal


Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 648
Re: Using Gravity for CO2 Removal [Re: Skeeblix]
    #7545011 - 10/21/07 10:40 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Skeeblix said:
What you guys and RR especially seem to neglect in your thought process is that the Earth has huge massive air currents to keep everything balanced out. Convection is constantly churning the air around us, pretty much evenly distributing the CO2 that occurs in the atmosphere all around.

CO2 IS heavier than air, and without any kind of air current to keep it from sinking, it will. An FC is generally a fairly still-air environment, meaning the CO2 is dispersed very little throughout the air inside the chamber. I'm sure if you had some kind of gas composite analyzer to take a sample of the air lower in the FC, it would more than likely read at least marginally higher levels of CO2 near the bottom.




Thanks bro, you are right, they don't seem to understand that a FC is not an analog to a PLANET!

Seems like it goes without saying, but they just like to call you wrong so much they often don't stop to make sure you actually are wrong.

In a near stale air environment like a FC between fanning, yes, the CO2 will settle on the bottom, and if you release O2 from below, it will rise up and replace the CO2 as it drains away.

Again, this does not replace FAE, it is a tek for in between fanning.

Also, as far as level flat casing top, how many flat planes do mushies grow on in nature?


--------------------
www.groworganic.com
Get 350lbs shipped to your door for only $100!
www.mycosupply.com
Online Organic Rye Berries
www.hydroponics.net/i/200002
The Cyclestat 4P, a great repeat cycle timer made in the USA.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblemonstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay Flag
Re: Using Gravity for CO2 Removal [Re: Captain Cubensis]
    #7545219 - 10/21/07 11:34 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Captain Cubensis said:
In a near stale air environment like a FC between fanning, yes, the CO2 will settle on the bottom, and if you release O2 from below, it will rise up and replace the CO2 as it drains away.





this is where you are wrong. especially with your fruiting chamber
that has small holes drilled all through the sides.
fruiting chambers never, ever should be stagnant. they should
receive fresh air exchanges multiple times per hour. and if this
is done, or if the lid is left open, or if there are holes in the side,
then the air is not even close to stagnant.

and co2 buildup is a good thing to an extent by the way, not a bad thing.


--------------------



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleCaptain Cubensis
Bleeding HeartLiberal


Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 648
Re: Using Gravity for CO2 Removal [Re: monstermitch]
    #7545253 - 10/21/07 11:40 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Does higher CO2 benefit your fruits?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinexaxphaanes
Mycologist
 User Gallery


Registered: 08/08/05
Posts: 2,988
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
Re: Using Gravity for CO2 Removal [Re: Captain Cubensis]
    #7545279 - 10/21/07 11:46 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Not to a noticeable degree.


--------------------
"Anything i say is fictional"
  what you should look for in manure


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleCaptain Cubensis
Bleeding HeartLiberal


Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 648
Re: Using Gravity for CO2 Removal [Re: xaxphaanes]
    #7545286 - 10/21/07 11:47 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Does higher O2 benefit your fruits?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblemonstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay Flag
Re: Using Gravity for CO2 Removal [Re: Captain Cubensis]
    #7545309 - 10/21/07 11:56 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

it depends on the stage you are in.

during colonization and the setting of hyphal knots, a high
concentration of co2 helps quite a bit.
it helps create a better pinset.
one of the functions of a casing layer is to trap co2 at the surface
of the colonized substrate.

once primordia are formed, fresh air exchanges are introduced
several times an hour and the co2 levels then drop dramatically.
from this point on, constant air movement is what you want.
not high o2 levels, normal air. lots of it.
so no, high o2 levels don't benefit anything, but constantly moving
turbulent air sure will, but only in the fruiting stage.


--------------------



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleCaptain Cubensis
Bleeding HeartLiberal


Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 648
Re: Using Gravity for CO2 Removal [Re: monstermitch]
    #7545322 - 10/22/07 12:01 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

So stale is better until pins form, then FAE?

What do you think of Wronguy's fan method?

It seems a circulating fan blowing toward the tubs holes facilitates near constant flow.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblemonstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay Flag
Re: Using Gravity for CO2 Removal [Re: Captain Cubensis]
    #7545366 - 10/22/07 12:13 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

yes.
when casing is applied, or when a substrate is still colonizing
or setting it's knots, stale air is best.
it's not mandatory by any means.
a substrate can be introduced to fresh air before the hyphal
knots form, but it is then likely to have a suffering pinset.
ask Wronguy if he has great pinsets, or suffering pinsets? I would
wager it would be the latter, not the former.

once primordia form though, in any situation, fresh air exchanges
need to immediately begin taking place for best results.
co2 no longer becomes a factor then.

so basically high co2 for pre-pinning stages.
and high FAE as soon as primordia (pins) begin to form.
so as soon as they form, FAE is their best friend.
but before that, a high co2 content is the best friend.


--------------------



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineboingkster
CuriousCultivator
Male

Registered: 09/28/07
Posts: 109
Last seen: 14 years, 1 month
Re: Using Gravity for CO2 Removal [Re: Captain Cubensis]
    #7545389 - 10/22/07 12:20 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I'm thinking of killing two birds with one stone - probably already been tried, but I think its an ok idea:

Why not put a narrow and tallish glass inside the FC with some H2O2'd water in it...and an aquarium bubbler at the bottom? Just thread the tube through a hole in the side of the container which will be sealed with silicone. On the other side of the FC, put a hole or two about mid-way up and stuff with [>insert name of cotton-wool-like stuff that doesnt absorb moisture here<].

Wouldn't that work to a) humidify and b) exchange air?


--------------------
A Question Never Asked is an Answer Never Given
[Having said that, use the Search button! Teks too!]


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblemycocurious
Mike O. Kuerias
Male User Gallery


Registered: 02/09/07
Posts: 1,265
Re: Using Gravity for CO2 Removal [Re: Skeeblix]
    #7545795 - 10/22/07 05:40 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Really quickly, because it's getting kind of tedious at this point...

If your fruiting chamber (greenhouse or terrarium) is in anyway a "relatively still-air environment" as mentioned above you're already doing yourself a rather significant disservice in terms of environmental conditions for healthy fruiting.

You'd be hard pressed to find a location within your house that was confined enough to allow this to happen. Just the process of the pressure in your house equalizing after a breeze blows past it will create enough air currents in the entire structure to prevent CO2 from settling out of the air. Add to that any fans, central-air, heating. Any lights, electrical devices as well as people or animals moving from room to room. Any doors opening or closing, toilets flushing, etc. Any / all of those things will further make it impossible for the CO2 to settle out of the air.

Or, to state it simply... an empty house has too much air-flow to allow the CO2 to separate out and anything more active than an empty house only further makes it impossible for it to separate out.


--------------------
:justdontknow: Don't mistake my tone for a "matter-of-fact" attitude.  I'm just presenting what I believe to be correct, until I'm corrected...

- How Myco-Curious Prepares Coir & Compost Substrates
- How Myco-Curious Builds A Bulk Humidifier
- How Myco-Curious Builds An Automated Greenhouse
------------------------------------
figgusfiddus said:
Keep in mind that inoculating or whatever in front of a flow hood won't help your bad substrate, your bad inoculant, your bad sterile procedure, etc. etc. etc. It's not a +3 flowhood of magic, it's just a tool.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRogerRabbitM
Bans for Pleasure
Male User Gallery


Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 11 months, 3 days
Trusted Cultivator
OG Cultivator
Re: Using Gravity for CO2 Removal [Re: mycocurious]
    #7546101 - 10/22/07 09:15 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Thanks bro, you are right, they don't seem to understand that a FC is not an analog to a PLANET!

Seems like it goes without saying, but they just like to call you wrong so much they often don't stop to make sure you actually are wrong.

In a near stale air environment like a FC between fanning, yes, the CO2 will settle on the bottom, and if you release O2 from below, it will rise up and replace the CO2 as it drains away.





You would be well advised to take a basic science course prior to calling other people wrong. I've posted many times on this subject to try to help clear the misunderstandings and down right ignorant shit I've seen posted here, but little can rival this.

Do you have a CO2 sensor? I do. Do you have an O2 sensor? I do. Do you have a meter that can read ppm of particulate in the air? I do.

More BS
Quote:

What you guys and RR especially seem to neglect in your thought process is that the Earth has huge massive air currents to keep everything balanced out. Convection is constantly churning the air around us, pretty much evenly distributing the CO2 that occurs in the atmosphere all around.

CO2 IS heavier than air, and without any kind of air current to keep it from sinking, it will. An FC is generally a fairly still-air environment, meaning the CO2 is dispersed very little thoughout the air inside the chamber. I'm sure if you had some kind of gas composite analyzer to take a sample of the air lower in the FC, it would more than likely read at least marginally higher levels of CO2 near the bottom.






Here's a news flash. The fruiting chamber I designed has holes in all six sides. This results in convection and circulation. It is NOT a still air environment! The mushroom substrates produce heat, and also the lighting that shines through the fruiting chamber produces heat. These two produce convection. Perhaps if you'd read posts before jumping into shit you know nothing of, you'd have seen that. Sorry, but this pisses me off. Don't attack my work because you don't understand the science behind it.

Now, in a so-called 'shotgun' fruiting chamber with holes on all six sides, would you suppose the CO2 drains out the bottom? It doesn't. It mixes with the air. I see absolutely NO change in CO2 concentration from the top to the bottom of the fruiting chamber. CO2 levels are higher than ambient in the room, but lower than they would be in a 'still air' terrarium, as if anyone who has knowledge of the life cycle of fungi would ever make such a thing.

Do your homework before trashing others work please.
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleThePyschonaut52
Stranger
Male

Registered: 04/24/07
Posts: 982
Re: Using Gravity for CO2 Removal [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7546108 - 10/22/07 09:17 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

:rockon:


--------------------
"In god we trust..."


-I guess we're screwed.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineanarchOi
Ellenalien is fat.
Male User Gallery


Registered: 08/06/07
Posts: 2,293
Loc: ASE Flag
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
Re: Using Gravity for CO2 Removal [Re: ThePyschonaut52]
    #7546175 - 10/22/07 09:50 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

i know this is SLIGHTLY off topic
and you guys are all busy fighting like special ed kids (jk)
but RR, i watched your vid on how to make the shotgun fruiting chamber and i must say i was a little confused

how the hell do you put WET perlite in that and not make a huge mess? :crazy2:
does the water not drain out of the bottom holes? how do you add more water to it? do you have to take all of your cakes out and rehydrate seperately? or do you just mist it?


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleThePyschonaut52
Stranger
Male

Registered: 04/24/07
Posts: 982
Re: Using Gravity for CO2 Removal [Re: anarchOi]
    #7546252 - 10/22/07 10:17 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

you gotta let the perlite drain for a few minutes.

I myself dump the perlite in a bucket and soak it for a few minutes, then I put it in colanders and let it drain for 15 minutes


--------------------
"In god we trust..."


-I guess we're screwed.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineanarchOi
Ellenalien is fat.
Male User Gallery


Registered: 08/06/07
Posts: 2,293
Loc: ASE Flag
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
Re: Using Gravity for CO2 Removal [Re: ThePyschonaut52]
    #7546277 - 10/22/07 10:23 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

i usually just pour in a good 4-5 inches of mostly dry perlite and then pour water into the corners until puddles form at the bottom >.>
and i have filter holes just above the perlite

i suppose i'm underestimating perlite's ablility to absorb water
how long does your perlite last in the FC? with all those holes and no water reserves


--------------------


Edited by anarchOi (10/22/07 10:29 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRogerRabbitM
Bans for Pleasure
Male User Gallery


Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 11 months, 3 days
Trusted Cultivator
OG Cultivator
Re: Using Gravity for CO2 Removal [Re: ThePyschonaut52]
    #7546305 - 10/22/07 10:33 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

how the hell do you put WET perlite in that and not make a huge mess?





Quote:

i suppose i'm underestimating perlite's ablility to absorb water





Perlite doesn't absorb water.


The video plainly shows me holding the collander in the air so you can see the water drain out of it prior to adding to the terrarium. You don't need to add more moisture to the perlite during the fruiting cycle. Between cycles, you can add water if necessary.

Nobody is fighting. I had to set the record straight on those who would call me out by name to trash my work without understanding the science or even bothering to read the posts, where the issue of CO2 removal from terrariums has been covered in detail. You can bet your last dollar that if I advise on something, it's based on many years of experience and literally thousands of grows on all sorts of substrates, with dozens of species. I don't make this shit up. Good luck to all.
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleshroomerite
Apprentice


Registered: 06/09/06
Posts: 513
Re: Using Gravity for CO2 Removal [Re: anarchOi]
    #7546319 - 10/22/07 10:41 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Perlite doesn't really absorb water. It has a porous surface that holds onto water and allows it to evaporate. If you use well drained perlite you shouldn't have a wet mess. Any standing water at the bottom of your chamber creates a stagnate environment below the waters surface which allows for contams to breed. Perlite that is well drained has a high evaporation rate, thus creating better humidity and less contam prone process.


--------------------
  "For best results, learn to work with nature rather than against it. Mycelium has an amazing ability to cope with less than optimal conditions, and will often fruit when a grower does everything wrong. However, do everything right and watch your performance go through the roof." RR



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleCaptain Cubensis
Bleeding HeartLiberal


Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 648
Re: Using Gravity for CO2 Removal [Re: ThePyschonaut52]
    #7546636 - 10/22/07 12:14 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Somebody needs a nap!

Well I guess it's settled, only Roger's ways work, nobody else's!

We all just better buy his DVD before he gets too mad at us for not knowing everything like he does!


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleCaptain Cubensis
Bleeding HeartLiberal


Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 648
Re: Using Gravity for CO2 Removal [Re: ThePyschonaut52]
    #7546666 - 10/22/07 12:21 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

So, if I understand correctly, punching holes in the sides creates enough FAE that CO2 will not accumulate around the pins, but still fanning is needed.

If CO2 never builds up, then why fan?

If the CO2 level is only slightly above ambient, then FAE is not needed to remove CO2, only to stimulate pinning?

But if the CO2 exhaled by the myc is carried away by currents, isn't that FAE without fanning?

Since CO2 will not build up much higher than a room, why do you fan?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblemonstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay Flag
Re: Using Gravity for CO2 Removal [Re: Captain Cubensis]
    #7546721 - 10/22/07 12:34 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

we fan to keep molds at bay.
if the air is constantly moving, the mold spores cannot land and
germinate.
they keep getting kicked around, never getting the chance to
grow.

reference my substrate bag grows to see that mushrooms grow
great, really great in high co2 concentrations with no FAE.
but only if the environment is protected from molds.
FAE is NOT NEEDED for mushrooms to grow. period.

substrate bags are sealed with a filter patch, not allowing any
molds to get in.
if a substrate is exposed to the air, it has to have high FAE to
keep molds away.

that's the reason for fanning.
molds cannot thrive in fresh, turbulent, moving air.
mushrooms can certainly thrive in fresh, turbulent, moving air.


--------------------



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRogerRabbitM
Bans for Pleasure
Male User Gallery


Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 11 months, 3 days
Trusted Cultivator
OG Cultivator
Re: Using Gravity for CO2 Removal [Re: Captain Cubensis]
    #7546747 - 10/22/07 12:41 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

CO2 will build up in a terrarium, whether or not holes are drilled into all six sides. The levels will be lower than they would be without holes drilled and/or fanning regularly, but will still be above normal ambient.

With oyster mushrooms and lion's mane to name two species that are very CO2 intolerant, you need to fan a few times per day, even when using my terrarium design.

The point above, is that even with 100 holes in the floor of the fruiting chamber/terrarium, CO2 levels will still be elevated. The holes help, but don't make for maintenance free fruiting. In other words, gravity won't 'drain' the CO2. I hope this clears up any lingering confusion.

In addition, CO2 is not the only reason we provide air exchange. The other important reason is that contaminants prefer stale air, while mushroom mycelium prefers fresh, moving air. Good luck to all.
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblemonstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay Flag
Re: Using Gravity for CO2 Removal [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7546772 - 10/22/07 12:46 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

to add to my comment:

not all mushrooms are tolerant to high co2 levels.
as stated above, there are several species that demand fresh
air to fruit. my point is that FAE is not always needed.
that molds are half of the reason for fanning.

everything RR said is correct. so combine our comments for a
full and complete answer.


--------------------



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleCaptain Cubensis
Bleeding HeartLiberal


Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 648
Re: Using Gravity for CO2 Removal [Re: monstermitch]
    #7546800 - 10/22/07 12:54 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

monstermitch said:
we fan to keep molds at bay.
if the air is constantly moving, the mold spores cannot land and
germinate.
they keep getting kicked around, never getting the chance to
grow.

reference my substrate bag grows to see that mushrooms grow
great, really great in high co2 concentrations with no FAE.
but only if the environment is protected from molds.
FAE is NOT NEEDED for mushrooms to grow. period.

substrate bags are sealed with a filter patch, not allowing any
molds to get in.
if a substrate is exposed to the air, it has to have high FAE to
keep molds away.

that's the reason for fanning.
molds cannot thrive in fresh, turbulent, moving air.
mushrooms can certainly thrive in fresh, turbulent, moving air.




Now that was an explanation people can understand.

Last year my foaf grow out one of his bins, using BRF cakes, tight seal, ABSOLUTELY ZERO FAE, none.

That tub grew fantastic fruits with not one single fanning session or even opening the lid ONCE.

But if I posted this, wow, people would call me retarded!

If FAE is not needed, then why expose the casing to air borne contams?

Why not just use sealed FCs? Basically, that's what a bag is right?

So if my foaf put filter tape over his holes in the FC, he would not need to fan, right?

Since it would now become a rigid bag in the shape of a rectangle.

But then why did all those peeps tell me I couldn't place directly in the FC.

Trouble is, there are about 10 people on here that do not agree, yet they are all 100% right in their minds.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblemonstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay Flag
Re: Using Gravity for CO2 Removal [Re: Captain Cubensis]
    #7546846 - 10/22/07 01:06 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

well, let me be a bit more specific please.

filter patch bags have a filter patch.
they allow for gas exchange... and a limited amount of air exchange.

my mushrooms comment was far too general.
cubensis (probably the easiest mushroom in the world to grow)
do not need lots of FAE to grow. actually, some cubensis do,
but some do not. the very limited FAE they get via the filter patch
is enough for many strains.

so a unique situation occurs having cubes in filter patch bags.

with the majority of cubes, and with most of the rest of the mushroom
species FAE is needed for fruiting.

so I was a bit wrong with the general statement I made.
I was just trying to emphasize the point of fanning for mold
prevention.



so let me sum this up quite simply:

a very few strains of cubensis (using strain in it's correct definition)
can grow with very limited FAE provisioins, i.e. a filter patch.

all other strains of cubensis, and most all other mushrooms period
do need FAE to grow properly, just like in the wild.

sorry about that.

Quote:

Captain Cubensis said:
Why not just use sealed FCs? Basically, that's what a bag is right?

So if my foaf put filter tape over his holes in the FC, he would not need to fan, right?





filter patch bags work for some cubes because the air is sterile
to begin with inside.
a fruiting chamber will never have sterile air, because you're not
ever going to pressure cook a fruting chamber and seal it shut.

so the air to start with is full of mold and such, making it madatory
to use FAE to fight it.

once a filter patch bag is opened, it's prone to mold contamination,
just like any other substrate is.


--------------------



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleCaptain Cubensis
Bleeding HeartLiberal


Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 648
Re: Using Gravity for CO2 Removal [Re: monstermitch]
    #7546881 - 10/22/07 01:19 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

That was great, thanks Mitch! You have explained a lot of things with few words, good job, I truly appreciate this, so thanks.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblemonstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay Flag
Re: Using Gravity for CO2 Removal [Re: Captain Cubensis]
    #7546908 - 10/22/07 01:30 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I'm trying...

I'd be delighted to see you apply some of this and pull of
a great grow!!


--------------------



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblemycocurious
Mike O. Kuerias
Male User Gallery


Registered: 02/09/07
Posts: 1,265
Re: Using Gravity for CO2 Removal [Re: Captain Cubensis]
    #7546917 - 10/22/07 01:33 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Captain Cubensis said:
So, if I understand correctly, punching holes in the sides creates enough FAE that CO2 will not accumulate around the pins, but still fanning is needed.

If CO2 never builds up, then why fan?




That is because the purpose of the holes in the terrarium is to create and maintain the relative humidity through convection (heat-rising) from the bottom, and being pulled through the perlite - thus humidified - and then into the chamber. Drier, less humid air rises out of the top and sides of the terrarium through the same process.

The passive air exchange provided through this means is still far better than the (partially) seal environments you find in other terrariums and monotubs but is still not completely adequate as an automated solution so hand fanning is still required to supplement the exchange of fresh air.


--------------------
:justdontknow: Don't mistake my tone for a "matter-of-fact" attitude.  I'm just presenting what I believe to be correct, until I'm corrected...

- How Myco-Curious Prepares Coir & Compost Substrates
- How Myco-Curious Builds A Bulk Humidifier
- How Myco-Curious Builds An Automated Greenhouse
------------------------------------
figgusfiddus said:
Keep in mind that inoculating or whatever in front of a flow hood won't help your bad substrate, your bad inoculant, your bad sterile procedure, etc. etc. etc. It's not a +3 flowhood of magic, it's just a tool.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblemycocurious
Mike O. Kuerias
Male User Gallery


Registered: 02/09/07
Posts: 1,265
Re: Using Gravity for CO2 Removal [Re: Captain Cubensis]
    #7546941 - 10/22/07 01:39 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

+1 on the obvious - but understated - reasons regarding contaminates liking "stale air". To put a finer point on it, most types of fungi prefer a CO2 richer environment in their vegetative stage... but we attempting to get our mycelium to leave the vegetative stage and enter their fruiting stage so changing the air as frequently as possible is really serving a dual purpose... To further encourage the fruiting phase of the cultured mycelium in question as well as discourage the germination and colonization of stray/contaminate spores that may work their way into the chamber...

For cubensis in particular, the differences between the two is almost non-existent but move into other species such as those listed above and you'll need to be able to change the air entirely several times an hour for them to fruit properly. Even more complicated species such as morels have radically different parameters and have requirements such as "fresh, cold rains" needing to be simulated several times a day for proper fruiting.

---
Bottom line, you cannot have too much FAE in your environment provided it's not interfering with your ability to maintain the humidity requirements as well...


--------------------
:justdontknow: Don't mistake my tone for a "matter-of-fact" attitude.  I'm just presenting what I believe to be correct, until I'm corrected...

- How Myco-Curious Prepares Coir & Compost Substrates
- How Myco-Curious Builds A Bulk Humidifier
- How Myco-Curious Builds An Automated Greenhouse
------------------------------------
figgusfiddus said:
Keep in mind that inoculating or whatever in front of a flow hood won't help your bad substrate, your bad inoculant, your bad sterile procedure, etc. etc. etc. It's not a +3 flowhood of magic, it's just a tool.


Edited by mycocurious (10/22/07 01:41 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBanjoMojo
Munster
 User Gallery

Registered: 09/29/07
Posts: 148
Loc: Alabama-ish
Last seen: 4 years, 4 months
Re: Using Gravity for CO2 Removal [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7547497 - 10/22/07 04:07 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Hell yes. I was starting to doze off with this thread, but RR kicked it right back into gear!


--------------------
:firefox: If God is inside us like some people say, He'd better like burritos 'cause that's what he's getting. :firefox:

I ♥ :skittles:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineanarchOi
Ellenalien is fat.
Male User Gallery


Registered: 08/06/07
Posts: 2,293
Loc: ASE Flag
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
Re: Using Gravity for CO2 Removal [Re: BanjoMojo]
    #7547644 - 10/22/07 04:55 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

i don't mean offense RR

just asking questions x_X


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleBUDDHA_702
Master Mycologist In Training
Male


Registered: 02/17/07
Posts: 1,296
Loc: Some Country
Re: Using Gravity for CO2 Removal [Re: Psilocin Dreams]
    #7564969 - 10/26/07 10:15 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Psilocin Dreams said:
The whole "foaf" thing won't save you in court and looks silly, otherwise this sounds reasonable.




That's what I think every time some says "A friend of mine..."
Like we don't know it's BS.:crazy2:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2  [ show all ]

Shop: Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Mushroom-Hut Mono Tub Substrate   North Spore Bulk Substrate   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   PhytoExtractum Kratom Powder for Sale   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Deleted Jared 4,636 19 03/13/02 11:57 PM
by TSUNAMIRAY
* getting rid of CO2
( 1 2 all )
wackytron 3,286 21 01/21/04 02:00 PM
by greenplato
* CO2 question.
( 1 2 all )
ticktock 4,014 31 12/23/04 06:03 PM
by ticktock
* How heavy is CO2??? taibensis 719 10 11/23/04 07:49 PM
by taibensis
* gravity cultivation comments stara 1,383 12 05/19/03 08:19 AM
by Suntzu
* Agmented fuiting with co2? discored 634 6 04/22/04 07:04 PM
by discored
* Removing CO2 bemmers 732 1 01/24/02 12:13 AM
by MickyFinn
* CO2 Exchange nerveagent 681 1 06/16/03 10:26 AM
by MycoGlowFlow

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Shroomism, george castanza, RogerRabbit, veggie, mushboy, fahtster, LogicaL Chaos, 13shrooms, Stipe-n Cap, Pastywhyte, bodhisatta, Tormato, Land Trout, A.k.a
4,252 topic views. 18 members, 160 guests and 43 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.028 seconds spending 0.006 seconds on 12 queries.