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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Does a true Taoist label himself a Taoist? [Re: MorphMan]
    #7354570 -

For example, a Taoist may not mean the same thing to two different people.

this is why i refuse to label myself a Taoist

of course im not calling myself a "true" taoist...

maybe if i ever turn out to be a taoist master i could use the label  without becoming attached :lol:  ultimately i guess it doesn't matter.


It is merely a point-of-view conveyed by that specific person about what they believe to be true.

does a taoist master believe in truth or experience it?


--------------------

Strive to be more than a codified manifestation of a generalized technological consciousness

Edited by onlynow (08/31/07 01:22 AM)

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Re: Does a true Taoist label himself a Taoist? [Re: MorphMan]
    #7354585 -

Quote:
I like it and I agree. You used some very effective wording. I couldn't think of how to explain it, but apparently I don't need to.


Heh, I'm a bit amazed by my wording too. It's definately something I've thought a lot about and have read quite a bit into. Reading the daodejing was essentially a spring board for a life that I had neglected/been too preoccupied to notice.

Quote:
This topic has inspired me to actually learn about traditional Taoism. It would be extremely interesting to attempt to understand how this way of life was created and the mind(s) that were behind it.



Have you read The Essential Chuang Tzu? Apparently Lao Tzu had 2 disciples; Chuang Tzu and Lieh Tzu. They both have writings that're neat/interesting reads.

Quote:
would i have to label myself?


I don't know, why would you need to label yourself?


--------------------
The best way to live
is to be like water
For water benefits all things
and goes against none of them
It provides for all people
and even cleanses those places
a man is loath to go
In this way it is just like Tao        ~Daodejing

Edited by Cracka_X (08/31/07 01:31 AM)

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Re: Does a true Taoist label himself a Taoist? [Re: Cracka_X]
    #7354590 -

I don't know, why would you need to label yourself? :thumbup: :thumbup:


--------------------

Strive to be more than a codified manifestation of a generalized technological consciousness

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Re: Does a true Taoist label himself a Taoist? [Re: onlynow]
    #7354597 -

onlynow said:
I don't know, why would you need to label yourself? :thumbup: :thumbup:


yay! time to party!

:reachforthelasers:


--------------------
The best way to live
is to be like water
For water benefits all things
and goes against none of them
It provides for all people
and even cleanses those places
a man is loath to go
In this way it is just like Tao        ~Daodejing

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Re: Does a true Taoist label himself a Taoist? [Re: MorphMan]
    #7355281 -

MorphMan said:
It seems like a lot of "true Taoists" or "true Buddhists" are offended that such people as myself would just take a little from each spiritual path and make a collage of everything I agree with. They like to think that they are above "us newagers" because they are more "pure" than us, they are more superior because they follow everything they are told down to the very word.


Be careful though, if you only practice what you agree with, then you could just be reinforcing your ego. It's hard to know. There's certainly nothing wrong with forging your own path, to be sure, but it's easier that way to get lost in the thorns and tall grasses.

If other practitioners take up a holier than thou attitude, then that is their own doing. Don't let that provoke a similar reaction in you of being holier than them.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

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Re: Does a true Taoist label himself a Taoist? [Re: Cracka_X]
    #7359593 -

Cracka_X said:
onlynow said:
I don't know, why would you need to label yourself? :thumbup: :thumbup:


yay! time to party!

:reachforthelasers:


alright, but only if i supply the bass :blazed:


--------------------

Strive to be more than a codified manifestation of a generalized technological consciousness

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Re: Does a true Taoist label himself a Taoist? [Re: dblaney]
    #7359621 -

dblaney said:
Be careful though, if you only practice what you agree with, then you could just be reinforcing your ego


"practise what you agree with"... when in a state of no-mind, are you agreeing or being?


It's hard to know. There's certainly nothing wrong with forging your own path, to be sure, but it's easier that way to get lost in the thorns and tall grasses.

if you have not realized the thorns and grasses, and cannot observe them without attachment, then yes it may be easy to get lost.


If other practitioners take up a holier than thou attitude, then that is their own doing. Don't let that provoke a similar reaction in you of being holier than

not trying to sound holy or anything... but if someone has realized their inner holiness more than others, how can he go about expressing himself without the others labelling him as having a holier than thou attitude? should he intentionally act out trying not to sound holy, or should he just be his holy self?


--------------------

Strive to be more than a codified manifestation of a generalized technological consciousness

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Re: Does a true Taoist label himself a Taoist? [Re: onlynow]
    #7359772 -

Dude: Are you a taoist?
Other Dude: I don't know, but can you pass the dip?


--------------------
:thumbup: :thumbdown:

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Re: Does a true Taoist label himself a Taoist? [Re: Great Scott]
    #7359944 -

i think this is the best reply yet.. :rofl2:


--------------------

Strive to be more than a codified manifestation of a generalized technological consciousness

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Re: Does a true Taoist label himself a Taoist? [Re: onlynow]
    #7360324 -

onlynow said:
dblaney said:
Be careful though, if you only practice what you agree with, then you could just be reinforcing your ego


"practise what you agree with"... when in a state of no-mind, are you agreeing or being?


I don't know. Are you in a state of no-mind?

Quote:
If other practitioners take up a holier than thou attitude, then that is their own doing. Don't let that provoke a similar reaction in you of being holier than

not trying to sound holy or anything... but if someone has realized their inner holiness more than others, how can he go about expressing himself without the others labelling him as having a holier than thou attitude? should he intentionally act out trying not to sound holy, or should he just be his holy self?


If you have realized your 'inner holiness', as you call it, then there is no question. The line between sacred and secular or mundane is arbitrary, and ultimately it must be seen through. In the sacred, nothing is mundane, and in the mundane, nothing is sacred. When you realize yourself, you realize that you aren't anything special. Just ordinary old you. If people label you as holier than thou, then perhaps you're (I use "you", but I'm not necessarily referring to you specifically) coming off as conceited.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

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Re: Does a true Taoist label himself a Taoist? [Re: dblaney]
    #7360602 -

Quote:
dblaney said:If you have realized your 'inner holiness', as you call it, then there is no question. The line between sacred and secular or mundane is arbitrary, and ultimately it must be seen through. In the sacred, nothing is mundane, and in the mundane, nothing is sacred. When you realize yourself, you realize that you aren't anything special. Just ordinary old you. If people label you as holier than thou, then perhaps you're (I use "you", but I'm not necessarily referring to you specifically) coming off as conceited.


i agree mostly

When you realize yourself, you realize that you aren't anything special. Just ordinary old you.

why should self-realization be contained within the framework of definition and language - we aren't special and we are at the same time... we are ordinary and extraordinary at the same time. there is so much depth to experience, it doesn't seem to end. imo, self-realization is finding new dimensions of yourself you had not yet previously had access to. it is expanding awareness of beingness, ourselves, and our connection to everything. when this is realized, nothing is ordinary, everything is creation.


--------------------

Strive to be more than a codified manifestation of a generalized technological consciousness

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Re: Does a true Taoist label himself a Taoist? [Re: onlynow]
    #7361099 -

Sure, but if that manifests as you acting 'holy' while everyone else doesn't act holy, or if you see that you have realized your self while almost no one else has, then there may be a more subtle issue indeed.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

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Re: Does a true Taoist label himself a Taoist? [Re: dblaney]
    #7362153 -

i agree

can you be holy, but not act it?  will those who act every minute of their life only see an act in those who are actually holy (or who have realized their inner holiness)?  will they not be able to perceive and understand the holiness if they have not realized it?

i can observe that i have realized myself more than some of those who are so attached to tv and other mainstream media, is this an issue?  it can be an issue if i impose my "holiness" onto others, of course.  but i observe holiness in you, and others in this forum.  i don't see it as an act rather a manifestation of higher awareness. :thumbup:


--------------------

Strive to be more than a codified manifestation of a generalized technological consciousness

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Re: Does a true Taoist label himself a Taoist? [Re: onlynow]
    #7363183 -

Quote:
i can observe that i have realized myself more than some of those who are so attached to tv and other mainstream media, is this an issue?


In the selfless nature of reality, who is there that can realize themselves more or less than others?


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

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Re: Does a true Taoist label himself a Taoist? [Re: onlynow]
    #7364063 -

I don't believe that you can deem yourself (accurately) as more "holy" than others. We all must find our own path and not get caught up in constantly evaluating our "progress". In reality, we are all progressing along our paths every second of every minute. We may not realize it, but you cannot stop the flow of reality and life. It is going to flow along with you or without you, but at the same time we are contained within this encompassing force and consequently brought along for the ride, with or without our consent.

I just don't believe that labels mean anything. Labels are merely a word, they don't define or explain exactly what they are referring to. I could call myself a Taoist until I'm blue in the face but that doesn't change anything about the reality that I live in and the life that I lead. Only action (what you do), or lack of action, has any lasting impact on the world. That's just my 2 cents of course.


--------------------

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Re: Does a true Taoist label himself a Taoist? [Re: MorphMan]
    #7364067 -

well the yin yang teaches us that even a true taoist has a little untrue taoist in themselves.:yesnod:

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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