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Invisiblethe_Landotter
Gnostic Chaoist

Registered: 05/24/02
Posts: 340
Loc: R'lyeh
True Will? True Self?
    #1013368 - 11/01/02 03:19 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

A curious error has entered into many systems of occult thought.  This is the notion of some higher self or true will which has been misappropriated from the monotheistic religions.  There are many who like to think that they have some inner self which is somehow more real or spiritual than their ordinary or lower self.  The facts do not bear this out. 

There is no part of one?s beliefs about oneself which cannot be modified by sufficiently powerful psychological techniques.  There is nothing about oneself which cannot be taken away or changed.  The proper stimuli can, if correctly applied, turn communists into fascists, saints into devils, the meek into heroes and vice versa.  There is no sovereign sanctuary which represents our real nature.  There is nobody at home in the internal fortress. 

Everything we cherish as our ego, everything we believe in, is just what we have cobbled together out of the accident of our birth and subsequent experiences.  With drugs, brainwashing, and other techniques of extreme persuasion, we can quite readily make a man a devotee of a different ideology, the patriot of a different country, or the follower of a different religion.  Our mind is just an extension of the body, and there is no part of it that cannot be taken away or modified."

-- Peter Carroll


Discuss!  :wink: 


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Invisiblexganon
polydrug abuser
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 109
Loc: here
Re: True Will? True Self? [Re: the_Landotter]
    #1015727 - 11/02/02 01:51 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

These concepts are way out there if I understand them right though. The True Will being that which Is due to some higher pattern of reality? The True Will could easily mean "God's Will" in a determinist philosophy. Nothing is as it seems in these things.


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Invisibledee_N_ae
\/\/¡†¢h |-|øµ§³ ¢å†
Male User Gallery

Registered: 08/16/02
Posts: 2,473
Loc: The Shadow of Neptune
Re: True Will? True Self? [Re: the_Landotter]
    #1015737 - 11/02/02 01:56 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

To me the "higher self" or "true self" was just a handy label for the part of your consciousness that subtly guides you through life, like your intuition or 'that little voice in your head'.


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Invisiblexganon
polydrug abuser
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 109
Loc: here
Re: True Will? True Self? [Re: dee_N_ae]
    #1015745 - 11/02/02 02:00 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

a metaprogramming tool to develop consensus in the mind, making all the different false selves unite and become the True Self purified of outside influence.


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Invisiblethe_Landotter
Gnostic Chaoist

Registered: 05/24/02
Posts: 340
Loc: R'lyeh
Re: True Will? True Self? [Re: the_Landotter]
    #1031792 - 11/07/02 10:33 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

The only part of ourselves which exists above the temporary and mutable psychological structure we call the ego is the ____. ____ is the deliberately meaningless term given to the vital spark or life force within us. The ___ is without form. It is neither this nor that. There is almost nothing we can say of it except that it is the void center of consciousness, and it ?is? what it touches. It does not have any qualities like goodness, compassion, or spirituality, nor their opposites. It does, however, give a feeling of meaning or consciousness when we experience or will anything, and it becomes more apparent to us when we experience something powerfully. Laughter in ecstasy gives us a glimpse of it.


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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,770
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 3 months, 7 days
Re: True Will? True Self? [Re: the_Landotter]
    #1031900 - 11/07/02 11:22 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

I dont think the concept of True will has neccesarily been hijacked from monotheistic religions. I see True will as an egoless state where you act without concious thought. I also relate the notion of a higher self to the collective mind, group conciousness. Kind of like the way our brain controls the cells in our body.


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Always Smi2le


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Invisiblestarla dear
Stranger
Registered: 11/07/02
Posts: 10
Re: True Will? True Self? [Re: the_Landotter]
    #1033333 - 11/07/02 07:04 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

I thought about this sometimes. Our perception of the world by our mind and body is entirely what makes us who we are. But how do we perceive things, and what is it that drives us to see things the way we see them, and not as someone else might see them? Does it matter if we try to do good with our lives, does anything at all we do matter?

Well, I think that it matters in that the choices we make can enrich or help destroy our lives. In the end we all die, so some think it might not matter. It matters while you're alive though. And if all that we are, really, is the product of our minds/bodies and perceptions, then that means we cease to exist once we die. Our body, mind, perception is gone. From this, I get this strong sense that the only reasonable conclusion is that things which are alive are what exist, and when they die they have changed the world in their own slight way through their experience. But after death, things continue to be born and to exist. So wouldn't it make sense that after death, we kind of "wake up" into another perception... except it's not "us", it's the new life, a brand new perception that comes from the accident of our birth, as you put it.

This is all really connected to my thoughts about space and the universe and how life and death are kind of the same force working on many levels in an infinite...something. And we're just a small part of that. But forces cause us to be here and to wonder about this stuff, so it gives me a feeling that even though we are very tiny individuals, the life of everything has significance in some way.


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Offlinethe universe
Harbinger ofEldritch Despair
Male

Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 1,456
Loc: Under your bed
Last seen: 9 years, 7 months
Re: True Will? True Self? [Re: starla dear]
    #1034913 - 11/08/02 04:02 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

So you're afraid to die, huh? Don't worry. You're not alone. The only thing that matters is the here and now. If you worry about later, you're onlly going to make later worse by missing your opportunity to make now right. Get me?


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"If you had a million years to do it in, you couldn't rub out even half the 'Fuck you' signs in the world."- J. D. Salinger


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Invisiblethe_Landotter
Gnostic Chaoist

Registered: 05/24/02
Posts: 340
Loc: R'lyeh
Re: True Will? True Self? [Re: the_Landotter]
    #1035919 - 11/08/02 01:28 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

The center of consciousness is formless and without qulaities of which mind can form images. There is no-one at home. ___ is anonymous. We are an incomprehensible biomystic force-field, from hyperspace, if you like, with a mind and body attached. The mistake of so many occult systems is to imagine that the ___ has some perordained or intrinsic qulaity or nature. This is just a wishful thinking, trying to give cosmic significance to the ego.

Our ego is what the mind thinks we are. It is an image of ourselves which grows out of our life experience -- our body, sex, race, religion, culture, education, socialization, fears and desires. There is a great pressure on us to develop an integrated and assertive ego. We are supposed to know exactly who we are and what we believe and are supposed to be able to defend that identity. The more strongly we identify with something, the more strongly must we reject its opposite. Thus, the strongest, most obsessive egos belong to the least complete beings. For these types there is the additional problem that to exalt any principle will eventually attract its opposite. Those who exalt strength will be drawn into a position of weakness. Those who strive for goo will become embroiled in evil. Those who prize logic and reason will end as madmen.


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OfflineMurex
Reality Hacker

Registered: 07/28/02
Posts: 3,599
Loc: Traped in a shell.
Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
Re: True Will? True Self? [Re: the_Landotter]
    #1035978 - 11/08/02 01:44 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Good one Landotter. I agree with it.

Physical attributes and appearance also effect how other people precieve you as well. This can shape you over your life without knowing it.



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What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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